Boat Length Limit

[tillergirl]

So can you seasoned mariners tell us where we cannot go 60 foot and over? We've seen a lovely boat that is 65 foot but we reckon quite frankly we'd struggle with it. Is there a definitive table somewhere of ALL lock sizes for the UK?

[Keeping Up]

See here on waterscape.

 

Basically you can't go on the Leeds & Liverpool, the Stainforth & Keadby, the Huddersfield Broad, or the Calder & Hebble, but you can go almost everywhere else

[pwl]

I would also be interested if there is a definative table somewhere. You can get round most of the Midlands network with that length. We have just bought a 64 foot boat based on the Oxford. The Leeds and Liverpool would be no go I believe. Not sure about others. Personally I prefer longer boats as they seem to 'behave' better [except in a crosswind ]. If concerned hire one that size first.

 

P

 

Edited : crossed in the post with Keeping Up. Thanks for the link

Edited March 5, 2008 by pwl

[Dominic M]

See if you can acquire a copy of the snappily entitled Bradshaw's Canals & Navigable Rivers of England & Wales (1904). It's been reprinted a number of times (mine is a 1969 reprint by David & Charles Publishers). It is the definitive work. For the pedantic, you also can't do the last little bit of the Little Ouse, where there is a 40ft x 12ft lock shortly before the head of navigation near Brandon.

 

Edited to add: Keeping Up is right, but you also can't do the Ribble Link and the Rufford Branch of the Leeds & Liverpool (62ft). You can do the L&L from the foot of Wigan into Liverpool - but not the rest from Wigan to Leeds (62ft).

Edited March 5, 2008 by Dominic M

[carlt]

See if you can acquire a copy of the snappily entitled Bradshaw's Canals & Navigable Rivers of England & Wales (1904). It's been reprinted a number of times (mine is a 1969 reprint by David & Charles Publishers). It is the definitive work.

I'd describe Imray's "Inland Waterways of Britain and Ireland", by L.A.Edwards, as the definitive work.

 

But it's all a matter of opinion, I suppose (though mine is the correct one ).

[Dominic M]

I'd describe Imray's "Inland Waterways of Britain and Ireland", by L.A.Edwards, as the definitive work.

 

But it's all a matter of opinion, I suppose (though mine is the correct one ).

It can't be. I haven't got a copy.

[philandiz]

Jim Shead offers good advice. Just find his site on Google search engine..

[magpie patrick]

Not saying this is definitive BUT it's fairly comprehensive

 

Leeds and Liverpool Rufford Branch 62 feet

Leeds and Liverpool Wigan to Leeds 60 feet (62 feet narrow boat just, but can't get two in side by side)

Calder and Hebble: Broad Cut to Salterhebble Top Lock 57 feet (some reckon 60 feet narrowboat diaginally)

Huddersfield Broad: 57 feet

Sheffield and South Yorks above Rotherham 61 feet 6 inches

SSYN Thorne Lock not sure but its much less than 70 feet. 62 feet?

Ouse/Ure/Ripon above Linton Lock 57 feet

River Foss in York 65 feet?

Pocklington 55 feet I think (never been)

Yorkshire Derwent 55 feet above Sutton Lock (And you need Yorkshire Wildlife Trust permission)

Driffield Navigation 62 feet

Beverley Beck 65 feet?

Ancholme upstream of Harlam Hill 69 feet

Plus Odd Locks on the Middle Level (Horseway and Welches Dam) and Little Ouse which are VERY short. i.e. less than fifty feet.

 

Ripple is 62 feet and the only ones that really frustrate me out of the above is the C&H/Huddersfield, as I can squeeze through the L&L.

 

Be warned if you start along a navigation with short locks you may not be able to turn when you get to the first lock. I went along the Huddersfield Broad for about a mile from Huddersfield haveing come from the HNC and was able to turn at the incinerator, but the ordinary winding holes were too short for me

[Dominic M]

Not saying this is definitive BUT it's fairly comprehensive

 

Leeds and Liverpool Rufford Branch 62 feet

Leeds and Liverpool Wigan to Leeds 60 feet (62 feet narrow boat just, but can't get two in side by side)

Calder and Hebble: Broad Cut to Salterhebble Top Lock 57 feet (some reckon 60 feet narrowboat diaginally)

Huddersfield Broad: 57 feet

Sheffield and South Yorks above Rotherham 61 feet 6 inches

SSYN Thorne Lock not sure but its much less than 70 feet. 62 feet?

Ouse/Ure/Ripon above Linton Lock 57 feet

River Foss in York 65 feet?

Pocklington 55 feet I think (never been)

Yorkshire Derwent 55 feet above Sutton Lock (And you need Yorkshire Wildlife Trust permission)

Driffield Navigation 62 feet

Beverley Beck 65 feet?

Ancholme upstream of Harlam Hill 69 feet

Plus Odd Locks on the Middle Level (Horseway and Welches Dam) and Little Ouse which are VERY short. i.e. less than fifty feet.

 

Ripple is 62 feet and the only ones that really frustrate me out of the above is the C&H/Huddersfield, as I can squeeze through the L&L.

 

Be warned if you start along a navigation with short locks you may not be able to turn when you get to the first lock. I went along the Huddersfield Broad for about a mile from Huddersfield haveing come from the HNC and was able to turn at the incinerator, but the ordinary winding holes were too short for me

 

The Leeds & Liverpool short boats were 62ft x 14ft, so you can certainly take a 62ft narrowboat on the L&L. It is true that two side by side doesn't work because you can't get the gates open past the bow - on a widebeam with the bow in the centre of the lock this wasn't a problem. I did the Calder & Hebble, up to Ripon (the basin wasn't restored then but you could do the three locks), with a 58ft 6in nb in the 1990s, without having to remove fenders or any other difficulties apart from a little wiggling. 57ft is a myth as a maximum length.

[magpie patrick]

The Leeds & Liverpool short boats were 62ft x 14ft, so you can certainly take a 62ft narrowboat on the L&L. It is true that two side by side doesn't work because you can't get the gates open past the bow - on a widebeam with the bow in the centre of the lock this wasn't a problem. I did the Calder & Hebble, up to Ripon (the basin wasn't restored then but you could do the three locks), with a 58ft 6in nb in the 1990s, without having to remove fenders or any other difficulties apart from a little wiggling. 57ft is a myth as a maximum length.

 

By all means add and modify my list: I haven't tested all the options as I don't have a telescopic boat to try them with. No hope of getting my 62 footer to Ripon is there Dominic?

 

And thanks for the explanation on L&L, that had puzzled me, but I know Ripple will go through

[Timleech]

By all means add and modify my list: I haven't tested all the options as I don't have a telescopic boat to try them with. No hope of getting my 62 footer to Ripon is there Dominic?

 

And thanks for the explanation on L&L, that had puzzled me, but I know Ripple will go through

 

I reckon there's a fair chance that a 65' boat would get through the L&L with care, though it would have to sit in the centre of the locks.

I used to share a Short Boat, 40 years ago, & to the best of my recollection it was 62' -ish stem post to stern post but with a substantial rudder hanging behind the stern post. I don't recall ever having to worry about swinging the rudder to avoid cills, it would have not been a simple matter anyway because of the scale of the rudder/tiller and the shape of the stern.

Don't plan your life on being able to do it, though, & don't beat me if it doesn't work

 

The C&H locks are a bit longer than specified up to Figure of Three locks, I've been that far with a Leeds & Liverpool boat.

 

Tim

[Dominic M]

By all means add and modify my list: I haven't tested all the options as I don't have a telescopic boat to try them with. No hope of getting my 62 footer to Ripon is there Dominic?

 

And thanks for the explanation on L&L, that had puzzled me, but I know Ripple will go through

 

'Fraid not - but you might be able to get close. The locks above York are 60ft I think, and broad, so with a skew I reckon you might get away with it. There's plenty of river to back out and turn round in if you want. If you can then you can get pretty close to Ripon - the canal and its 3 locks is only a short distance.

 

Let me know.................

 

Dominic

[Bill Kennedy]

The Leeds & Liverpool short boats were 62ft x 14ft, so you can certainly take a 62ft narrowboat on the L&L. It is true that two side by side doesn't work because you can't get the gates open past the bow - on a widebeam with the bow in the centre of the lock this wasn't a problem. I did the Calder & Hebble, up to Ripon (the basin wasn't restored then but you could do the three locks), with a 58ft 6in nb in the 1990s, without having to remove fenders or any other difficulties apart from a little wiggling. 57ft is a myth as a maximum length.

 

We tried that last year in company with our friends whose boat is 62'. At the first lock out of Leeds, heading West, the BW man told us that we would not be able to continue as BW would not allow a boat to go through a lock diagonally. We had no alternative but to turn around and brave the R Trent again.

 

Cheers

 

Bill

[magpie patrick]

We tried that last year in company with our friends whose boat is 62'. At the first lock out of Leeds, heading West, the BW man told us that we would not be able to continue as BW would not allow a boat to go through a lock diagonally. We had no alternative but to turn around and brave the R Trent again.

 

Cheers

 

Bill

 

That's bad news from a jobsworth (I think some BW staff actually get pleasure from stopping you cruising: not many, but some. I had a bloke at Minworth several years ago laugh as he was saying I had no choice but to turn back as Aston locks were closed, which just made me more determined to sit out the stoppage). Am I alone in thinking that BW should be explicit about the size of craft they will allow through: if they were this would give two options...

 

get the local IWA to agrue with them and

 

get a tape measure out and prove that your boat is really just 61 feet 11 1/2 inches

 

and if you knew you were overlength you'd know you might be turned back

 

How many boats really go through a lock diagonally because of lenght? I though the boat only had to be diagonal to open/close the gates, after that it can sit against the wall can't it?

[Dominic M]

We tried that last year in company with our friends whose boat is 62'. At the first lock out of Leeds, heading West, the BW man told us that we would not be able to continue as BW would not allow a boat to go through a lock diagonally. We had no alternative but to turn around and brave the R Trent again.

 

Cheers

 

Bill

Hi Bill

 

Firstly at 62 ft the boat would not have to be on the diagonal. It only needs to be pushed out at the bow once you are ready to leave the lock so that the gate clears it.

 

Secondly I am not convinced that BW have any right to prevent you using a navigation other than for maintenance reasons when you have paid a licence to cruise and can do so at your boat length, but I am not a legal expert. Certainly I know of a number of people who have done the L&L with a 62ft narrowboat.

 

Thirdly it seems to me that whoever told you this does not actually know the dimensions of the waterway.

 

Harumph!

 

Cheers

 

Dominic

[tillergirl]

Oh dear I do seem to start some contentious threads But anyway thanks for all your input looks like a 60 footer would not be out of the reckoning so thats gives us more to think about. Please continue to debate if you wish all input is gratefully accepted.

[RLWP]

Just to add another dimension to this debate. When we bought ours we worried that we ought to have a 57' boat as is fashionable at the moment. Then we would be able to cruise the whole system, and all that jazz. In reality, we have never taken our 70' boat further north than Anderton where we bought it. If you have retired then cruising the whole system may be possible, but if you only have 1-2 week holidays and moor in the midlands, you don't have enough time to get onto the L&L and all those other short boat places.

 

Richard

 

 

 

edited for inexplicable lapses in spelling ability!

Edited March 6, 2008 by RLWP

[Dominic M]

Just to add another dimension to this debate. When we bought ours we worried that we ought to have a 57' boat as is fasionable at the moment. Then we would be able to cruise the whole system, and all that jazz. In reality, we have never taken our 70' boat further north than Anderton where we bought it. If you have retired then cruising the system may be possible, but if you only have 1-2 week holidays and moor in the midlands, you don't have enough time to get onto the L@L and all those other short boat places.

 

Richard

I've always wondered where that 57' myth came from. Probably some BW advisory document for it has been around for two decades now at least. But myth it is.

 

Dominic

[magpie patrick]

I've always wondered where that 57' myth came from. Probably some BW advisory document for it has been around for two decades now at least. But myth it is.

 

Dominic

 

I'd always assumed it was a "generic short boat" that would go anywhere (or would once stanground sluice was lengthened) but have never worked out what the actual constraint was: one BW employee suggested that Ripple might get through the C&H but hadn't a hope on the Huddersfield Broad Canal: Ive never tried either.

 

I took the attitude that short locks were so far from Bath it didn't matter, and even looked at some seventy footers: However, when I bought Ripple for some bizarre reason I headed straight for the Huddersfield Narrow and waterways beyond that she won't fit in, but that possibly says more about my character than any intrinsic problem with longer boats

[Dominic M]

I'd always assumed it was a "generic short boat" that would go anywhere (or would once stanground sluice was lengthened) but have never worked out what the actual constraint was: one BW employee suggested that Ripple might get through the C&H but hadn't a hope on the Huddersfield Broad Canal: Ive never tried either.

 

I took the attitude that short locks were so far from Bath it didn't matter, and even looked at some seventy footers: However, when I bought Ripple for some bizarre reason I headed straight for the Huddersfield Narrow and waterways beyond that she won't fit in, but that possibly says more about my character than any intrinsic problem with longer boats

Trusty old Bradshaw's gives the Huddersfield Broad maximum dimensions as 58ft x 14ft 2in, and Ripon to York as 58ft x 14ft 6in.

[Travis]

Just looked down the moorings...Yep, my mates boat is still there.

 

He's had or over ten years, sailed up and down the L&L from here (on the summit) and guess what? It's a 62 footer.

 

Andy.

[Yoda]

I remember doing an audit to find the size of boat that would go everywhere. It turned out to be 56 feet and the only place it could not go was Taunton.

 

Allan Jones has proved BW wrong with thier lock lengths quite a few times.

[Keeping Up]

I remember doing an audit to find the size of boat that would go everywhere. It turned out to be 56 feet and the only place it could not go was Taunton.

 

Allan Jones has proved BW wrong with thier lock lengths quite a few times.

Yes indeed, but the EA managed to beat me at Burwell Creek. They assured me I could take Keeping Up to the end, and that I'd find plenty of room to wind when I got there. A short way up the creek is a lock with guillotine gates at each end, electrically powered. Debbie pressed the button and opened the nearest guillotine, so I motored gently in and suddenly hit the far end gate when I was still at least 3 feet outside the lock. I tried to fit in diagonally first one way and then the other, but there was always some of the stern hanging out past the guillotine; after a little over 10 minutes when we'd tried everything - including trying to open both ends at once, as there was no noticeable change in level, but they had an interlock to prevent that - I spotted the small warning notice that informed me the guillotine would drop automatically after 15 minutes. Not wanting to have my back end chopped off, I reversed out of the lock quite rapidly. When I phoned the EA, the chap there said "Oh yes, sorry, I'd forgotten we had a lock there"

[Yoda]

Interesting that their was no override to have both up at the same time, as there was no change in level it could not hurt. I also did not know that there was a timer on the gates, which I think is dangerous as it is not monitored. I would have thought that H&S would have said something about that situation.

Edited March 6, 2008 by Yoda

[anne]

Hi there!

Our boat is 58' and we have done the Huddersfield Board Canal...we had to take the nose off though to get through with another boat...locking through with only one boat would be easier though! We have also done the Leeds & Liverpool and the South Yorkshire Navigations with no problems! With regards th Pocklington Canal, one of our mates used to moor at Melboure in a 58' wide beam so that is possible (although you can't get up there at the moment due to stapages!)