Alde Gas Boiler

[nickfryer]

How many of you out there leave your Alde gas boiler on at night when sleeping in your boat.??

 

I have had mine serviced regularly but we are still not sure wether it is ok to leave it on all night.??

 

We have a coal stove which keeps in most of the night, but it would be nice to wake up in a morning with the bedroom nice & warm.

 

Thanks . Nick

[Ray]

I don't live on board and have only spent a few nights on the boat. However, I'm happy to leave the boiler alight all night. We have a CO alarm and a Smoke Detector so we should get advance warning of any problems.

 

Its reported on here that Alde's use a lot of gas so you might want to watch out for that.

 

We fited the room thermostat alongside the bed so that we can simply reach out in the morning, turn the thermostat up and then have a bit longer beneath the duvet whilst the boat warms up.

 

We usually manage to keep the stove in all night but guess we'll need a bit more practice to get it to keep the whole boat warm. Mind you, as one of us invaribly has to visit the smallest room not too long before we finally decide to get up, we could always stoke the fire up then - the lounge is usually warm enough to allow that without freezing us to death (but then the weather's never been as cold when wwe've been on the boat as it has been recently!

[pwl]

When we hired we always left the Alde running when it was cold but you think twice when you have to buy the gas yourself. Our new (to us) boat has an old Alde and the cr*p fin rads. We are seriously looking at fitting a Webasto even given the rise in diesel prices and not having a split tank.

I like Rays's idea of the thermostat next to the bed but I think I would use one of the electronic types that let you set temperature and times so you can run 'background warm' when asleep and get a kick about an hour before you get up.

 

P

[dor]

With my old Alde 2928 comfort, we would normally leave it on at night, but without the pump running so gas use was minimal. I fitted a switch to parallel the one in the thermostat so I could reach out of bed to turn it on in the morning.

 

With the new 3010, I can program it to come on in the morning.

[Serendipity]

I have an older model Alde, and have fitted the pump with a timer stat so the pump shuts down at night and I don't have to get up in the morning to re-start the boiler. Only issue is that the Alde is in the sleeping quarters, and even with the pump off will have to occasionally fire up for a minute to maintain it's internal temp. This is accompanied with the customary loud 'pop'.

 

Although the boat is well ventilated, I too would never consider this without a CO alarm.

 

BTW - Graham Cutmore (ex Alde Tech Servs Mgr) is excellent for servicing and parts, and very helpful with advice.

[BigRoj]

Are these Alde heating units 12v or mains?

 

I ask as I wondered if anyone has considered a wireless control unit to regulate the heating. The control unit can be put anywhere on the boat, eg at the side of the bed, and the temp set or programmed to your choice.

 

I have a simple TowerstatRF system installed at home (Cost less than £50) but it's a 240v control for the boiler.

 

Might be worth thinking about!

[Serendipity]

Are these Alde heating units 12v or mains?

 

I ask as I wondered if anyone has considered a wireless control unit to regulate the heating. The control unit can be put anywhere on the boat, eg at the side of the bed, and the temp set or programmed to your choice.

 

I have a simple TowerstatRF system installed at home (Cost less than £50) but it's a 240v control for the boiler.

 

Might be worth thinking about!

 

Looks good

 

The pump is 12V, the boiler itself has no supply electrics, it simply shuts itself off if the pump is not running as it's internally overheating. When you run the pump again thereby cooling it down, it operates normally again.

 

If you don't have/want 240V to power the programmable stat you can get ones which are self powered from an internal battery rather than 240V - here's the one recommended to me on this forum a year ago which has been perfect, and i've not had to replace the battery yet.

[gaggle]

what happens if the pump is swithced off ? does the heater just stay on pilot light / low level .

also how often should the aldi need to be topped up.

Edited February 19, 2008 by gaggle

[Tony Brooks]

what happens if the pump is swithced off ? does the heater just stay on pilot light / low level .

also how often should the aldi need to be topped up.

[Tony Brooks]

what happens if the pump is swithced off ? does the heater just stay on pilot light / low level .

also how often should the aldi need to be topped up.

 

 

1. Not exactly. The boiler stat that you set by the control knob controls the main burner to maintain boiler temperature. The roomstat has the effect of leaving only the pilot burner on, but occasionally the main burner will fire up for a short while.

 

2. Not often unless you have any form of leak. In any case low water level will allow the pump to "thrash bout" in air, making sloshing sounds and the prevent circulation, so you go back to the answer above.

 

All the modern vertical Aldes fitted in boats should be room sealed units (providing care was taken installing the "fresh air" pipe behind the unit. You are in far more danger from CO if you use a stove and a way after than instant gas water heaters and then cookers.

 

I leave my Alde on 24/7 when on the boat during the colder months but attempt to keep the stove in. I turn the roomstat down to about 10 to 12 degrees when we go to bed and turn it up again when I go to make the morning tea. I do not find gas use anything like as much as the Ellis it replaced - especially now we have the stove as well.

[gaggle]

thank you

Edited February 19, 2008 by gaggle

[Serendipity]

what happens if the pump is swithced off ? does the heater just stay on pilot light / low level .

also how often should the aldi need to be topped up.

 

Boiler overheats, and when I said shuts itself off, I meant turns the main burner off. Pilot stays lit. Boiler cools down, hour or so later the burner comes on, minute or so later it overheats and turns the burner off etc, etc, etc.

 

Edited to say - sorry clashed with Tony's last reply.

Edited February 19, 2008 by Serendipity

[Dominic M]

With the new 3010, I can program it to come on in the morning.

 

I'm interested to know about the 3010. Alde claim it to be far more efficient than the old upright models, which is good news. Aldes have always seemed to work well and only require occasional servicing, whereas I have had many boat owners curse the Eberspacher, Mikuni, Webasto and even Hurricane diesel units for the cost of maintaining them and their habit of "locking out" which requires calling out an engineer to rectify. But Alde's lpg consumption when you are buying lpg in small amounts - 13kg bottles usually - is a pricey business.

 

But in the Alde 3100 manual it states that copper must not be used in the circuit, which means that you would have to get a special calorifier. Have you just ignored this, or have you used a different material (they recommend aluminium, and I've never seen an aluminium calorifier).

 

Cheers

 

Dominic

 

Edited to remove typo

Edited February 19, 2008 by Dominic M

[chris w]

I'm interested to know about the 3100. Alde claim it to be far more efficient than the old upright models, which is good news. Aldes have always seemed to work well and only require occasional servicing, whereas I have had many boat owners curse the Eberspacher, Mikuni, Webasto and even Hurricane diesel units for the cost of maintaining them and their habit of "locking out" which requires calling out an engineer to rectify. But Alde's lpg consumption when you are buying lpg in small amounts - 13kg bottles usually - is a pricey business.

 

But in the Alde 3100 manual it states that copper must not be used in the circuit, which means that you would have to get a special calorifier. Have you just ignored this, or have you used a different material (they recommend aluminium, and I've never seen an aluminium calorifier).

 

Cheers

 

Dominic

 

I can't speak for the other brands of diesel heater but, if a Webasto should ever "lock-out", which might be caused by overheating due to an air-lock for example, it is not necessary to call an engineer out to reset it. The reset procedure is simply the removal and re-insertion of the main fuse.

 

Chris

[Dominic M]

I can't speak for the other brands of diesel heater but, if a Webasto should ever "lock-out", which might be caused by overheating due to an air-lock for example, it is not necessary to call an engineer out to reset it. The reset procedure is simply the removal and re-insertion of the main fuse.

 

Chris

 

Sorry, I shouldn't have included Webasto. I know with Eberspachers for example that it requires an engineer with a box of tricks to unlock it again.

[gaggle]

the reason i asked was i sometimes leave the boat with the heating on and was worried what would happen if i never got back and the power for the pump was lost.

[Dominic M]

the reason i asked was i sometimes leave the boat with the heating on and was worried what would happen if i never got back and the power for the pump was lost.

The boiler thermostat shuts the boiler down when the water reaches a certain temperature. If the pump is not circulating then that will be fairly quickly. It will keep cycling on and off, and if you never come back, do so until the gas runs out.

[dor]

But in the Alde 3100 manual it states that copper must not be used in the circuit, which means that you would have to get a special calorifier. Have you just ignored this, or have you used a different material (they recommend aluminium, and I've never seen an aluminium calorifier).

 

I've used a stainless steel calorifier with the 3010 - horizontal twin coil from Aquafax. It is dearer than a copper one, but not hugely so. The odd bit of brass in fittings is not apparently a problem, but I've used hep2o pipe and fittings for most of it, with standard steel rads. The glycol antifreeze also has inhibitors in it, but should probably be replaced every few years.

 

So far I've found the 3010 very good - it is practically silent in operation and doesn't seem to use anywhere near as much gas as the old upright 2928s. Only thing you have to watch is that you mix the glycol with the water well, before filling your system as the pump doesn't have a lot of push and if the glycol is not well mixed before hand you can finish up with some lower density in the rad and it won't circulate very well.

[Dominic M]

I've used a stainless steel calorifier with the 3010 - horizontal twin coil from Aquafax. It is dearer than a copper one, but not hugely so. The odd bit of brass in fittings is not apparently a problem, but I've used hep2o pipe and fittings for most of it, with standard steel rads. The glycol antifreeze also has inhibitors in it, but should probably be replaced every few years.

 

So far I've found the 3010 very good - it is practically silent in operation and doesn't seem to use anywhere near as much gas as the old upright 2928s. Only thing you have to watch is that you mix the glycol with the water well, before filling your system as the pump doesn't have a lot of push and if the glycol is not well mixed before hand you can finish up with some lower density in the rad and it won't circulate very well.

Thanks - I'm looking forward to coming across a boat with one installed. They sound an interesting development.

 

Dominic

[Aldeman]

Yes it is OK to leave your Alde boiler on throughout the night.

 

Based on 20 years experience of Alde boilers, the usual reason for high gas consumption on the Comfort series of upright boilers is that the radiator system is not properly matched to the boiler output, a problem frequently experienced when using the fin rads.

 

Fin rads require very careful installation with suitable airflow ducting to enable the heat to be convected, and a lot of fin rad is required to achieve the same heat output as a panel radiator. Insufficient airflow means that the fin rads cannot radiate heat and the boiler is therefore over-rated and operating inefficiently. In the same way, insufficient panel radiators will have the same effect.

 

Another regular cause of high gas consumption is running the boiler on too low a setting. The most efficient setting is around No. 5, and users often try to operate the boiler on 2 or 3, thinking that it is using less gas, when the opposite is, in fact, the case.

 

Considering that the boiler is heating the equivalent of a small house and providing hot water, it is questionable as to what is, in fact, high gas consumption! Another gas economy can be made by fitting a calorifier thermostat, which will regulate the temperature of the water and shut the boiler off as soon as the water reaches a preset temperature. A very simple and inexpensive addition which is very rarely found on any narrowboat.

 

The 3010 HE boiler is constructed in aluminium and stainless steel, and consequently it is not permissable to use ANY copper in the system, as it is likely to cause rapid corrosion of the copper. Subsequently, the calorifier has to be of stainless steel and the pipework should be in one of the plastic 'push-fit' systems, such as Speedfit or HEP20. Brass is not affected and is satisfactory for such fittings as may be required.

[Serendipity]

Another regular cause of high gas consumption is running the boiler on too low a setting. The most efficient setting is around No. 5, and users often try to operate the boiler on 2 or 3, thinking that it is using less gas, when the opposite is, in fact, the case.

 

Been on the boat since my last post on this thread, and on this trip I started out with two full 13kg propanes so I know how exactly how long one tank lasted me - three days (Doesn't supply hot water, and no heavy usage of oven or hob.) I'm one of those who assumed a setting of 2 or 3 saves gas, so I'll try 5 next time, though I do seem to recall having it at that setting once before I installed the room stat and the pump was switched manually. On one occasion when I'd forgotten to switch the pump on, the boiler 'kettled' and expelled water at that setting, whereas it didn't at 3.

[dor]

It shouldn't do that. I used to leave my alde running overnight on setting 6 with the pump off (so I could reach out of bed and hit a switch to turn the pump on in the morning). It would happily tick over, occasionally whooomphing into life for a few minutes as the water in the jacket cooled. Certainly shouldn't have boiled - perhaps your high high stat is faulty?

[Aldeman]

On one occasion when I'd forgotten to switch the pump on, the boiler 'kettled' and expelled water at that setting, whereas it didn't at 3.

 

None of the Alde boilers should ever boil and overflow, even when set to No. 7 with the pump off. If it does, even on rare occasions, then the problem is the burner calibration which needs adjusting and resetting. Calibration is usually re-set if the burner is serviced properly by an experienced engineer, with the special equipment necessary to calibrate the burner correctly, the alternative being estimated guesswork.

 

An incorrectly calibrated burner can seriously affect the performance and efficiency of the boiler and could easily be a contributory cause of heavy gas consumption.

[chris w]

None of the Alde boilers should ever boil and overflow, even when set to No. 7 with the pump off. If it does, even on rare occasions, then the problem is the burner calibration which needs adjusting and resetting. Calibration is usually re-set if the burner is serviced properly by an experienced engineer, with the special equipment necessary to calibrate the burner correctly, the alternative being estimated guesswork.

 

An incorrectly calibrated burner can seriously affect the performance and efficiency of the boiler and could easily be a contributory cause of heavy gas consumption.

 

Why does the burner go out of calibration?

 

Chris

[Serendipity]

None of the Alde boilers should ever boil and overflow, even when set to No. 7 with the pump off. If it does, even on rare occasions, then the problem is the burner calibration which needs adjusting and resetting. Calibration is usually re-set if the burner is serviced properly by an experienced engineer, with the special equipment necessary to calibrate the burner correctly, the alternative being estimated guesswork.

 

An incorrectly calibrated burner can seriously affect the performance and efficiency of the boiler and could easily be a contributory cause of heavy gas consumption.

 

 

Thanks for that - this occurred before I removed the burner unit and had it serviced last spring, and since that experience i've conditioned myself not to have it on above 3 which is in fact quite warm enough. Taking your point about having it set higher for efficiency, I'll try it again with the pump off and see whether it still boils over.

 

Edited to add - By the way, being as the burner unit doesn't require an electrical source, how is the mechanical operation of firing up and shutting down the main burner achieved?

Edited February 26, 2008 by Serendipity