Fitting a stove

[Broughton 2]

I'm fitting-out and have got to the stage where I'm considering how to fit the stove (Brunel 1A unless anyone has adverse comments). Never done this before and shall be grateful for all advice on how to go about the job.

 

Things like; best way to cut the chimney hole in the roof, how to seal the chimney yet give it sufficient movement for expansion/contraction, methods and materials for fire protection of adjacent wall and hearth. Are there any Boat Safety Scheme must do's?

 

Possible someone has raised this topic before but I had no joy with the site search engine.

[Bones]

I'm fitting-out and have got to the stage where I'm considering how to fit the stove (Brunel 1A unless anyone has adverse comments). Never done this before and shall be grateful for all advice on how to go about the job.

 

Things like; best way to cut the chimney hole in the roof, how to seal the chimney yet give it sufficient movement for expansion/contraction, methods and materials for fire protection of adjacent wall and hearth. Are there any Boat Safety Scheme must do's?

 

Possible someone has raised this topic before but I had no joy with the site search engine.

 

Check out the BSS website for any in formation that might e available.

 

I cut the chimney hole with a drill and a jigsaw. I ended up using hte drill and a file as it went wrong. Anyway, I used a small drill bit and drilled hole around the circle required, hit out the metal in the middle and then filed it down to the right size.

 

I used high temperature sylicon sealant (which I seem to have spelt in a delicious and wrong way)

 

And used some asbestos replacement stuff between the walls of the boat and the tiles around the stove.

 

The stove sat on a piece of marble that sat on a 2x2 wood frame with ply underneath. I drilled through the marble and secured the stove feet to the ply underneath it.

 

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php...y+stove+fitting

Edited December 20, 2007 by Bones

[Guest]

I did the job much the same as Bones. The fireproof board that we used was called "superlux" and was quite expensive, but less so than a torched boat. I built a wooden plinth on which to stand the hearth, with flooring tiles on top. I got some quality steel cutting jigsaw blades which made an easy job of the hole in the roof, drilling first as Bones describes. I hadto put a "dogleg" in the flue pipe. I cut the pipe with an angle grinder and got a friend to weld it. If you can leave a large air gap around the stove, then so much the better. I find for the actual chimney on the roof than the double skinned extra long ones are very good.

[Bones]

I did the job much the same as Bones. The fireproof board that we used was called "superlux" and was quite expensive, but less so than a torched boat. I built a wooden plinth on which to stand the hearth, with flooring tiles on top. I got some quality steel cutting jigsaw blades which made an easy job of the hole in the roof, drilling first as Bones describes. I hadto put a "dogleg" in the flue pipe. I cut the pipe with an angle grinder and got a friend to weld it. If you can leave a large air gap around the stove, then so much the better. I find for the actual chimney on the roof than the double skinned extra long ones are very good.

 

 

Oh dear - was I meant to weld it to the roof? And, what is a dogleg? I persume it isn't literally a dog leg, but something rather harder to find...?

[bjornunda]

Oh dear - was I meant to weld it to the roof? And, what is a dogleg? I persume it isn't literally a dog leg, but something rather harder to find...?

 

bones - no you were not meant to weld it to the roof. I assume that catweasel's dogleg was a change of direction of the fluepipe inside the boat (you of all people knows what a dog's leg looks like!) and a good weld should ensure that there is no leakage of smoke or gases from the join. If you also have an effective seal (fire cement, ceramix or similar) at the stove top reducer, where the flue pipe joins the stove, and no further joins the flue will be smoke and gas tight. I am told that the correct way to install is to have a flue pipe through the roof of your boat which goes through a standard 6" cast iron collar fitted (usually just bolted) to the outside of your roof. As the flue pipe goe through the cast iron collar - between the flue and collar is fire rope seal and fire cement or ceramic sealant. This means that the heat from the flue pipe is protected from the collar by the rope seal and fire cement. This in turn means that the internal wooden ceiling is also protected and should not be affected by the heat provided that there is a sufficient gap between it and the flue pipe and the register plate or dress ring doesn't contribute to heat transfer. Opinion seems to vary as to what constitutes a sufficient gap, right up to three times the diameter of the flue pipe, but again, rope and a ceramic sealant will help to insulate it from the heat.

 

One other important consideration, in my opinion, is the size of the hearth to the sides and front of the stove. Stove manufacturer's installation instructions usually give guidance and this was mentioned in the tragic Lindy Lou Accident Report which can be read at MAIB (have a look at section 1.10 if you don't want to read the whole report). How many of our stoves have a hearth extending 300mm in front of our stove?

[dor]

The Brunel 1A is a good stove, with two reservations: 1, the baffle plate is not easy to remove, requiring the fire bricks to be taken out first and they are not always cooperative about going back in again (you have to take the baffle plate out periodically to clear it of soot which accumulates above it and will eventually block the flue). The other is that the upper air control does not completely cut off the air supply when closed. This means that wood will continue to burn with all the air controls closed. In contrast, the Squirrel will shut down much more positively so you can put the stove out by closing the air controls, and the baffle plate is easier to remove. However it is a bit smaller that the Squirrel, which makes it easier to accomodate whilst still being able to allow a reasonable airgap around it.

[Guest]

bones - no you were not meant to weld it to the roof. I assume that catweasel's dogleg was a change of direction of the fluepipe inside the boat (you of all people knows what a dog's leg looks like!) and a good weld should ensure that there is no leakage of smoke or gases from the join. If you also have an effective seal (fire cement, ceramix or similar) at the stove top reducer, where the flue pipe joins the stove, and no further joins the flue will be smoke and gas tight. I am told that the correct way to install is to have a flue pipe through the roof of your boat which goes through a standard 6" cast iron collar fitted (usually just bolted) to the outside of your roof. As the flue pipe goe through the cast iron collar - between the flue and collar is fire rope seal and fire cement or ceramic sealant. This means that the heat from the flue pipe is protected from the collar by the rope seal and fire cement. This in turn means that the internal wooden ceiling is also protected and should not be affected by the heat provided that there is a sufficient gap between it and the flue pipe and the register plate or dress ring doesn't contribute to heat transfer. Opinion seems to vary as to what constitutes a sufficient gap, right up to three times the diameter of the flue pipe, but again, rope and a ceramic sealant will help to insulate it from the heat.

 

One other important consideration, in my opinion, is the size of the hearth to the sides and front of the stove. Stove manufacturer's installation instructions usually give guidance and this was mentioned in the tragic Lindy Lou Accident Report which can be read at MAIB (have a look at section 1.10 if you don't want to read the whole report). How many of our stoves have a hearth extending 300mm in front of our stove?

Yes that is what I meant to say. Don't worry Bones!

And yes the description with fire rope around the collar is much what I have done.

The 300 mm hearth bit: I made a metal drawer in the plinth underneath which can be drawn out when attending to the stove, thus catching any hot embers. It works well and extends about 250 mm past the hearth.

Edited December 20, 2007 by Guest

[Keeping Up]

The 300 mm hearth bit: I made a metal drawer in the plinth underneath which can be drawn out when attending to the stove, thus catching any hot embers. It works well and extends about 250 mm past the hearth.

Excellent idea Catty, I think I shall do the same.

 

On my previous boat we had a big woodburner. One day SWMBO ran out of logs while I was away so she bought some "loglets" from a nearby garage, these were made of compressed sawdust held together with some sort of glue. The first thing to burn was the glue, which meant they then had no structural strength; I came back to the boat and opened the door to see how it was going, and a great heap of red-hot sawdust tumbled out all over our brand-new carpet, burning an area about two feet across.

[NB Alnwick]

Excellent idea Catty, I think I shall do the same.

 

Well said - we will do the same!

 

That's what we like about this forum - every now and then a real 'BI' (brilliant idea) comes out . . .

[Guest]

I have my moments........ Feel free to use the patent; that is the generous sort of guy I am

Edited December 21, 2007 by Guest

[onthecut]

Hi Broughton2

 

If you can find a convenient place with one, there is nothing to beat a plasma cutter for your roof hole. Two or three minutes; absolutely precise, localised heat. No good though if you already have your roof lining in.

 

Mike.

[Broughton 2]

Many thanks to all who contributed.

 

Using a jig saw to cut the chimney hole seems quicker than drilling a chain of holes but I must say I've tried jig sawing through 5mm plate and not had much joy. the thinner roof plate (3mm?) may be OK though. I'll try it. Roof lining is in place so the plasma cutter is non runner (why do I do so many things in the wrong order?).

 

Excellent idea to fabricate a large metal drawer to collect hot stuff falling out the stove. Will certainly do that.

 

Dog-leg I understand and necessary if the chimney is to be vertical above the roof line.

 

Best way to make an effective seal around the chimney where it passes through the roof is still a bit of a mystery (to me). I suppose we must seal between the chimney and roof collar and yet allow for expansion/contraction movement. Some suggest using fire cement/ ceramic cement but don't those things set hard and therefore either crack or not allow much movement? High temp silicone sounds better. Further comments would be welcome

 

Hearth materials and construction ideas all very useful.

 

Brunel 1A shortcommings seem livable with so will probably stick with it. Her indoors "must have" a stove with enamel finish (posh or what?).

 

As a newcomer to the forum I'm finding it a cheerful place to visit and full of good practical information. I bought a sailaway and this is my first fit-out of a boat so it's just what I need.

 

Again, thanks to all.

Alan

[dor]

Using a jig saw to cut the chimney hole seems quicker than drilling a chain of holes but I must say I've tried jig sawing through 5mm plate and not had much joy. the thinner roof plate (3mm?) may be OK though.

 

Use a decent scrolling jigsaw and not too fine a blade. Should cut through roof ok.

[Chris Pink]

High temp silicone sounds better. Further comments would be welcome

 

High temperature silicone is The Stuff. Wonderful, it's clogging a fair gap on my chimney and show no sign of receding after 2 years. Very very flexible.

[Guest]

High temperature silicone is The Stuff. Wonderful, it's clogging a fair gap on my chimney and show no sign of receding after 2 years. Very very flexible.

Likewise after 4 years. Heat resistant silicon is good tack for sealing the cast collar to the roof.

[blackrose]

Using a jig saw to cut the chimney hole seems quicker than drilling a chain of holes but I must say I've tried jig sawing through 5mm plate and not had much joy. the thinner roof plate (3mm?) may be OK though.

I did it on a 5mm roof - slowly with a good metal jigsaw blade & some WD40 as coolant.

 

Best way to make an effective seal around the chimney where it passes through the roof is still a bit of a mystery (to me). I suppose we must seal between the chimney and roof collar and yet allow for expansion/contraction movement. Some suggest using fire cement/ ceramic cement but don't those things set hard and therefore either crack or not allow much movement? High temp silicone sounds better. Further comments would be welcome

I think you mean where the flue passes through the roof (or deck collar). The chimney is on top of the coachroof - flue below.

 

There should be a 1/4" to 1/2" gap all around between the flue & the inside of the deck collar for expansion and most people stuff this gap with glass rope (available from chandleries). The exposed rope in the gap is then sealed with high temp silicone.

 

The chimney should fit on the outside of the collar and should not touch the flue. Most chimneys need to be removable (for bridges etc) and don't need to be sealed as they fit over the outside of the collar. When being removed or re-attached, chimneys should not cause any movement in the flue for obvious reasons.

 

PS) Make sure you cut back at least 3" of any flammable material (wood & sprayfoam) from the inside of the boat where the flue passes through the roof. This area can be stuffed with rockwool and then covered with a masterboard or othe heat resistant tile with a hole for the flue, available from chandlerys or you can make your own. Also don't forget to put the flue through the hole in the tile before fitting the flue, like I did.

Edited December 24, 2007 by blackrose

[Broughton 2]

I did it on a 5mm roof - slowly with a good metal jigsaw blade & some WD40 as coolant.

I think you mean where the flue passes through the roof (or deck collar). The chimney is on top of the coachroof - flue below.

 

There should be a 1/4" to 1/2" gap all around between the flue & the inside of the deck collar for expansion and most people stuff this gap with glass rope (available from chandleries). The exposed rope in the gap is then sealed with high temp silicone.

 

The chimney should fit on the outside of the collar and should not touch the flue. Most chimneys need to be removable (for bridges etc) and don't need to be sealed as they fit over the outside of the collar. When being removed or re-attached, chimneys should not cause any movement in the flue for obvious reasons.

 

PS) Make sure you cut back at least 3" of any flammable material (wood & sprayfoam) from the inside of the boat where the flue passes through the roof. This area can be stuffed with rockwool and then covered with a masterboard or othe heat resistant tile with a hole for the flue, available from chandlerys or you can make your own. Also don't forget to put the flue through the hole in the tile before fitting the flue, like I did.

 

If nothing else I now know the difference between flue and chimney (I'll bet Santa knew all along). For that and other helpful tips many thanks.

 

As you say, the chimney fits over the outside of the collar. As a consequence any tar (creosote?) that forms in the chimney runs down and leaks out onto the roof leaving a nasty stain. Might it be a good idea to have a chimney with an internal drip collar that would route the tar down the flue and into the fire? Do you know if there is such a thing? Of course the internal drip collar should not be a fit on the flue.

[Keeping Up]

If nothing else I now know the difference between flue and chimney (I'll bet Santa knew all along). For that and other helpful tips many thanks.

 

As you say, the chimney fits over the outside of the collar. As a consequence any tar (creosote?) that forms in the chimney runs down and leaks out onto the roof leaving a nasty stain. Might it be a good idea to have a chimney with an internal drip collar that would route the tar down the flue and into the fire? Do you know if there is such a thing? Of course the internal drip collar should not be a fit on the flue.

Many chimneys are double-skinned. They have an outer part which as you say fits over the outside of the collar, they have an inner part which fits inside the collar and drops the condensates down inside the flue

[Broughton 2]

Many chimneys are double-skinned. They have an outer part which as you say fits over the outside of the collar, they have an inner part which fits inside the collar and drops the condensates down inside the flue

 

That's the one for me then!