Gallimore boatbuilders go bust—again!

[Phil Speight]

Whenever this happens , or rather - more often than not when this happens - I get boring by saying BUY FROM A LONF ESTABLISHED AND WIDELY RESPECTED BUILDER. asLL i

[WJM]

Long established means nothing in itself;

 

 

 

It can mean 'excellent and competent'

 

It can also mean 'trapped in a business model that worked twenty years ago and now floundering'

 

 

 

If you cant have sight of their accounts (which is unlikely) then you just have to work on instinct and minimise your own exposure.

[andywatson]

Quote from Narrowboatworld-

 

"The company was then suffering from the competition of other boatbuilders who were importing and fitting-out cheap hulls from Poland and China."

 

-I think that was probably just an excuse. If he'd only gone bust once I'd have believed it............

[blackrose]

Before we all become rabid xenophobes, I would like to know what sort of proportion foreign built boats actually represent on UK inland waterways compared to UK built boats? Those who are screaming about the threat of Johnny Foreigner need to remember that it's organisations much closer to home who are actually importing these boats, and good or bad that's globalisation for you. Like Andy above, I also wonder whether some builders are just using the issue of imported boats as an excuse for their own inadequate business practices.

 

Instead of lumping all non-British built boats together and calling them crap, I think it might be sensible to differentiate between boats built in Poland which is now in the EU and has a long and proud heritage of steel ship and boat building, from other boats built half a world away in Asia.

 

From what I have seen, in terms of quality the Polish narrowboats imported by NBC for example, are a match for those from any of our own mid-range builders. I don't know much about the history of Chinese shipbuilding, but I have also had a close inspection of a Chinese boat imported by the Irish company East/West marine and really don't think one can say the same thing about them.

 

Also, just to put someone right, most people in the UK don't buy their boats direct from Poland or China, they go though a company like NBC or East/West, both of whom I have seen fulfilling their obligations by carrying out warranty jobs on these imported boats.

Edited November 28, 2007 by blackrose

[carlt]

I wonder, too, what proportion of the components in a 'british' boat, is actually produced in Britain. I suspect, a very small one.

 

That said, I think one of the biggest benefits of having a locally built boat is being able to observe its progress, from a pile of sheet steel, to finished product.

 

If I were to have a boat built, that would be worth paying a premium for.

[charles123]

I wonder, too, what proportion of the components in a 'british' boat, is actually produced in Britain. I suspect, a very small one.

 

That said, I think one of the biggest benefits of having a locally built boat is being able to observe its progress, from a pile of sheet steel, to finished product.

 

If I were to have a boat built, that would be worth paying a premium for.

 

 

Naturally some shell builders dont allow vistors to the workshop for obvious Health and Safety reasons

 

Charles

[carlt]

Naturally some shell builders dont allow vistors to the workshop for obvious Health and Safety reasons

 

Charles

Then I would choose another builder.

[Chertsey]

Naturally some shell builders dont allow vistors to the workshop for obvious Health and Safety reasons

 

Charles

 

Naturally? Obvious? Then why only some?

[WJM]

Seeing it does not mean it belongs to you - strange things happen in collapsing companies.

 

You can have all the paperwork and assurances you like, it is only truly yours the day you take delivery.

[carlt]

Seeing it does not mean it belongs to you - strange things happen in collapsing companies.

 

You can have all the paperwork and assurances you like, it is only truly yours the day you take delivery.

I appreciate that but the number of times we hear about buyers going along expecting to see an almost completed boat, to find steel plate leaning against the workshop wall, I would insist on regular update meetings which involved a tour of my purchase.

[Gary Peacock]

I wonder, too, what proportion of the components in a 'british' boat, is actually produced in Britain. I suspect, a very small one.

 

That said, I think one of the biggest benefits of having a locally built boat is being able to observe its progress, from a pile of sheet steel, to finished product.

 

If I were to have a boat built, that would be worth paying a premium for.

 

This got me thinking so I went and checked.

 

The result was-

 

The Heritage Range Cooker.

 

The hospital silencer.

 

Hep2o

 

Calorifier

 

The shower tray.

 

Paint.

 

Blacking.

 

So not a lot British about them really.

Edited November 28, 2007 by Gary Peacock

[Yoda]

This got me thinking so I went and checked.

 

The result was-

 

The Heritage Range Cooker.

 

The hospital silencer.

 

The shower tray.

 

Paint.

 

Blacking.

 

So not a lot British about them really.

 

You missed the real point Gary, the design is British. Old, traditional, tried and tested British.

[WJM]

"...the design is British. Old, traditional, tried and tested British...."

 

Yeah - good old British design, the backbone of the British Car Industry, Motorcycle Industry, Aircraft Industry. It served them well!

 

 

 

Is this the only country in the world that has a major political party named after a refusal to embrace change?

Edited November 28, 2007 by WJM

[Travis]

We've got a British built boat, but look at this....

 

Baseplate...Russian

 

Engine...Italian

 

Boiler...Dutch

 

Batterycharger...Dutch

 

Inverter...Dutch

 

Steering gear...Dutch

 

Water pump...Yank

 

Generator...German engine/Swedish alernator

 

Batteries...German

 

Cooker...Scouse.(Joke, I'm a Mank)

 

Etc. Does it really matter where its all put together? Of course it does, it's a British built boat.

[fuzzyduck]

Err Gary, go check again, you've missed a bit.

 

I'll give you a clue, it's the difference between a fit out, and fly tipping.

[Gary Peacock]

Manufacturing in this country in my view is finished, the UK is now just too expensive to be competitive.

 

If people were prepared to pay more for "home grown" products then that could change but people wont so nothing will change and production will continue to be transfered to more viable manufacturing countries.

 

 

But with good old Captain Gordo at the helm it's all going to change for the better isn't it!

 

 

Might be a while yet though he's got a few issues to put on spin first!

[WJM]

" Manufacturing in this country in my view is finished, the UK is now just too expensive to be competitive"

 

Agreed - with one proviso; Volume manufacturing of low/medium price goods is finished. Really it finished 20 or 30 years ago. Small scale high value manufacturing is alive and well though. The car industry is a good example. Once, british designed and built cars dominated the world markets. Now there is no british car industry. Alternately, Formula One and other motor-sport engineering is dominated by British companies.

 

If you are in the boat building business make sure you are in the high-value specialist sector and if you want to attack the volume market make sure you manufacture abroad.

 

Wages are too high here, driven primarily by absurd property prices. Latest UK statistic; the average first time home buyer in London need an income of £100kpa to raise a mortgage!

[blackrose]

Manufacturing in this country in my view is finished, the UK is now just too expensive to be competitive.

 

If people were prepared to pay more for "home grown" products then that could change but people wont so nothing will change and production will continue to be transfered to more viable manufacturing countries.

But with good old Captain Gordo at the helm it's all going to change for the better isn't it!

 

 

Might be a while yet though he's got a few issues to put on spin first!

 

Before we blame Gordo for everything I think we might need to look back a bit further. The de-industrialisation of the UK began en mass when Maggie was at the helm as moneterism and the "service economy" was thrust upon us.

Edited November 28, 2007 by blackrose

[carlt]

Before we blame Gordo for everything I think we might need to look back a bit further. The de-industrialisation of the UK began en mass when Maggie was at the helm as moneterism and the "service economy" was thrust upon us.

Though you could also blame the Wilson government for shoring up our bloated manufacturing industry with subsidies and nationalisation rather than letting it learn to stand on its own two feet and finding its own level.

 

Or you could blame Callaghan for being an idiot, or John Smith, for dying (the inconsiderate git) and letting Bliar in.

[Yoda]

British mass production industry was finished because the government sponsered it. It was finished many years before but governments had to keep it going for political reasons. Cars would have been half price if we had not produced some in Britain at high cost. Perhaps the Soviet era of showing who does best and tractor production up again this month had most to do with government decisions at the time but people like Red Robo insisting on gross overmaning in industry killed volume manufacture.

[Mr Baites]

British mass production industry was finished because the government sponsered it. It was finished many years before but governments had to keep it going for political reasons. Cars would have been half price if we had not produced some in Britain at high cost. Perhaps the Soviet era of showing who does best and tractor production up again this month had most to do with government decisions at the time but people like Red Robo insisting on gross overmaning in industry killed volume manufacture.

 

th e ole lots finishd thi good at nowt now if thi ar canya tel mi wot? o an dont say tekin moni coz a no

[Phil Speight]

Long established means nothing in itself;

It can mean 'excellent and competent'

 

It can also mean 'trapped in a business model that worked twenty years ago and now floundering'

If you cant have sight of their accounts (which is unlikely) then you just have to work on instinct and minimise your own exposure.

Indeed- perfectly valid comment in today`s troubled times.However my "instinct" derives from 30 odd years on the canal as a resident and as a professional member of the industry. To make matters worse I could even be accused of being an enthusiast , and worse still one who cares where the ropes go and other such old fashioned concerns.There are lots of us around and we have a fairly good idea, having had years and years to hone our instincts and having worked for and with a huge number of our fellows , which , if any, companies may be likely to go t*ts up at any moment. None of the ones in recent years have surprised me one jot. It is a trend among relative newcomers whose expertise is founded in up to date high tech.industries and business practices to sneer at the older established boat builders because of their apparent "bumbling artesan" approach. It`s their loss by and large and it makes me sad. Attitudes have changed so much in recent years , and many of the builders going bust are ones that are bringing up to the minute ethics with them when they arrive on a wing and a prayer.

As far as I`m concerned "long established" means they must be doing something right, "customer satisfaction" allied with the builder still being around after so many boats and so many punters PROVES they`re doing something right. Give me an old fashioned boat built by an old fashioned craftsman who actually understands what constitutes a good boat any day of the week. I wouldn`t mind the wait , I wouldn`t mind the price ( because it would actually BE the price and I know what I`d be paying for) , I wouldn`t be bullshi**ed by claims in glossy adverts and I wouldn`t even mind if the boat was late. It would be worth it and far better than watching my money either disappear or be turned into an inferior product.

People ,I hope , come onto the canal to enjoy it. Why not start out by accepting it for what it is rather than trying to impose your own everyday parameters on it - learn about it , explore it before you commit vast sums of your money. Get to the heart of it , keep an open mind and take advice when it would be helpful. Then you`ll find ways of ensuring you deal with the good guys.

Cheers

Phil

Edited November 28, 2007 by Phil Speight

[sueb]

Boat builders with problems have been known to show the same boat to several buyers as their boat. So seeing a boat doesn't mean it's yours.

Sue

[carlt]

Boat builders with problems have been known to show the same boat to several buyers as their boat. So seeing a boat doesn't mean it's yours.

Sue

You can only take all the precautions possible.

 

Just dismissing them because a dishonest person can find a way round them isn't very productive.