Ownership of Bill of Sale

[john.k]

Unfortunately ,every lender takes a lien over all the goods and chattels of the borrower,entirely separate to the property described in any mortgage agreement................and that is what a boat is ...a chattel...even if you happen to living in it ....it cannot be endowed with any right attached to real estste.......consequently ,you can be slung out and the boat taken for an outstanding credit card debt of a previous owner.

[MtB]

2 hours ago, john.k said:

Unfortunately ,every lender takes a lien over all the goods and chattels of the borrower,entirely separate to the property described in any mortgage agreement................and that is what a boat is ...a chattel...even if you happen to living in it ....it cannot be endowed with any right attached to real estste.......consequently ,you can be slung out and the boat taken for an outstanding credit card debt of a previous owner.

 

 

Beware Aussies giving flawed and incorrect legal advice in England and Wales.

 

 

 

[MtB]

5 hours ago, Spudwynk said:

Iweve just had an offer accepted on a used boat through semi-pr8vate sale - couple who have a business doing up for sale boats that need work and selling them on. Advice online says do a credit check to make sure no outstanding finance agreement is linked to the boat. Worth doing? How do I go about it? Rough cost? 19 year old boat. Had 2 owners before reseller

 

 

There is no such thing as a 'semi-private' sale. Yours sounds like a business purchase to me. 

 

There is no way that I can think of to check the boat is not still security for an unredeemed marine mortgage. Have you had a good look through the "ship's papers" (old licences, letters from BW, invoices for maintenance etc)? These should give a good feel for the path of ownership. Any previous owners taking a personal loan to buy the boat are personally liable and the boat cannot be seized should they have defaulted. Hire purchase is a bit different but has been broadly obsolete since before this boat was built so I don't think you need worry about that. For a real marine mortgage, the boat needs to be Lloyds registered IIRC, so checking it isn't with Lloyds should rule that risk out.

 

You could also ask the seller to sign a document indemnifying you against any creditors having any claim on the boat. You'd probably need a solicitor to draw one up - cost might be £500-ish at a guess. But no-one bothers as it is virtually unheard of for this to happen.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

6 hours ago, Spudwynk said:

Iweve just had an offer accepted on a used boat through semi-pr8vate sale - couple who have a business doing up for sale boats that need work and selling them on. Advice online says do a credit check to make sure no outstanding finance agreement is linked to the boat. Worth doing? How do I go about it? Rough cost? 19 year old boat. Had 2 owners before reseller

 

 

If they are selling in the 'course of a business' (this is important - can you prove that ?) then you have full protection under the Consumer Right Act 2015

It must be 100% as described and fit for purpose, if you are not happy with it you can return it for a full refund.

 

If, (despite mending and selling boats that have not been for their personal use) they are deemed to be 'private sellers' then you have absoluteluy no protection - it could be full of holes patched with chewing gum and when you step on board it sinks - tough luck.

 

What are my rights when buying second-hand goods?

If your second-hand goods aren’t good enough, you could be entitled to a refund. But it depends on if you bought your items from a retailer or an individual.

 

Did you buy it from a private seller?

When you buy from an individual (as opposed to a retailer), the Consumer Rights Act says that the goods you get must be as they were described to you by the seller.

There's no obligation on the seller to disclose any faults, but misrepresenting goods isn't allowed.

For example, something second-hand should not be described as new. If it is, the seller will be in breach of contract.

But putting things right can be tricky. If you can’t reach an agreement between yourselves you’ll have to try alternative dispute resolution or the small claims court.

 

 

The Consumer Rights Act 2015

The Consumer Rights Act sets out your rights when you're buying products, services and digital content.

Product quality - what should you expect?

As with the Sale of Goods Act, under the Consumer Rights Act all products must be of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and as described.  

The rules also include digital content in this definition. So all products - whether physical or digital - must meet the following standards:  

• Fit for purpose  The goods should be fit for the purpose they are supplied for, as well as any specific purpose you made known to the retailer before you agreed to buy the goods. 
• As described  The goods supplied must match any description given to you, or any models or samples shown to you at the time of purchase.
• Satisfactory quality  Goods shouldn't be faulty or damaged when you receive them. You should ask what a reasonable person would consider satisfactory for the goods in question. For example, bargain-bucket products won’t be held to as high standards as luxury goods.

One aspect of a product being of satisfactory quality is durability, in other words how long it lasts.

 

How long do you have to return a faulty product?

The Consumer Rights Act gives you the legal right to either get a refund for goods that are of unsatisfactory quality, unfit for purpose or not as described, or get it repaired  - depending on how long you've owned it:

• 0 - 30 days you can claim a full refund for goods that are of unsatisfactory quality, unfit for purpose or not as described. 
• 30 days - six months you must give the retailer one opportunity to repair or replace it before you can claim a refund
• six months or more you must give the retailer one opportunity to repair or replace it before you can claim a partial refund, and the burden of proof is on you to prove the product is faulty

If you'd prefer a repair or replacement in the first 30 days you can ask the retailer, but it cannot refuse to give you a refund.

The 30 day right to a refund doesn't apply to products you've bought as downloads - such as music, games or apps. You can, however, ask for a digital product to be repaired or replaced if it develops a fault. And if this isn't possible, or unsuccessful, you have the right to get a price reduction - which could be the full amount you paid. 

The 30-day period is shorter for perishable goods, and will be determined by how long it is reasonable to have expected the goods to last. For example, milk would be expected to last until its use-by date, as long as it’s stored correctly.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[john.k]

Dammit.....are you saying my Blackstones "Commentaries on the Laws of England" is out of date? 

[Graham Davis]

4 hours ago, john.k said:

 

I do wish someone would stop this idiot posting incorrect advice, based on what happens in Australia not the UK, here.

 

[ditchcrawler]

6 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

Beware Aussies giving flawed and incorrect legal advice in England and Wales.

 

Thats what I thought as well. But do the people doing this boat up own it and are they selling it in the course of their business?