Dave J

So finally i get some catch up time. Paul cruised my wide beam down the old west - he is undoubtedly a master of his art. Westview are a ‘can do’ bunch of really helpful guys and i think Toad Hall pretty much maxed out their crane at 33 T - but they did it…amazing people. The highlight for me - Hermitage lock and the generous space we had once inside 🙂 Paul, thank you - fantastic trip!

That's exactly what my research has found. If you sign to accept liability you're effectively stuffed if HMRC come knocking. I'm guessing (but can't seem to get an straight answer) that if it says the owner then it may well be able to passed on with the ownership of the boat BUT if it says buyer then I think you'd be protected!

I have no idea - it does sound plain wrong and i’ve made it known i won’t proceed on that basis!

During my research into this subject there have definitely been court cases where the buyer bot won and lost their case against HMRC claiming back dated VAT on a vessel. It does appear to basically come down to the wording in the contract (hence my interest in seeing the bill of sale and associated t&C's). It does appear our courts will deem it payable by the purchaser if the signed agreement passes all liability to the purchaser!

This is a whole different can of worms. The seller bought the boat new and paid VAT on the fittings but not on the hull. It's an aqualine (12ft x 68ft) and their sales literature says it's vat exempt. Apparently (according to the broker) the bill of sale states the same...I'm still waiting to see it!! However when I had it surveyed I asked the surveyor to check the measurements and as far as I can see it may not be VAT exempt. But having spoken to a marine vat specialist he thinks if it's sold as VAT exempt and later proven not to be (although highly unlikely anyone will question it) then HMRC re likely to chase the original sales company. BUT the fact the (so I'm told) the bill of sale states its VAT exempt if further reason for it to be in my possession!

Me neither and I asked her to explain - her response was "I just work here"!!! The only conclusion I can draw is that they want to create a cash bonus of supplying me the original bill of sale when I come to sell - I can't fathom any other logical explanation...as I mentioned, I won't accept it and unless they adopt a more professional approach I will walk away!

I spoke with the agent again this afternoon, I've explained that for all the reasons stated in this thread it was both unreasonable and unacceptable - She told me it's prevent fraud by people financing the boat twice!! I'm a cash customer but also explained they had no remit to monitor such a thing and quite frankly once sold it was none of their business! I've explained it's a deal breaker! She's going to talk to her boss so I'll let you know the outcome but it sounds like shady practice to me at the least! Thank you - this is very useful - I'm sending an email copy to the broker

Thanks everyone - you've confirmed what I thought, I'll be having short conversation with the brokers!!

I'm in the process of buying a wide beam through a broker, I've asked to see copies of the original bill of sales along with the VAT exemption certificate, RCD compliance certification and owner manual. I've been informed I'll receive a bill of sale for my purchase from the brokerage BUT they will keep the original bill of sale on archive, which they say is the norm. Having read numerous articles about the importance of a boats paper trail - it seems counter-intuitive to me that they should hold on the the original bill of sale. Is this usual? Thanks Dave

Wow - I think I'll need to be a little more experienced before attempting that!!

That's really useful - thank you very much! That would be really appreciated - I'll stay in touch and let you know dates - it's likely to be late July / early August depending on transport availability etc

I may take you up on that - I know very little and happy for any help 😉 No - well hopefully not! 2018 build and one previous owner

Thanks - I'll speak to them too, slightly nervous about hermitage lock but looking forward to the learning curve / cliff! Excuse my ignorance - The Old West? I won't be doing a lot of cruising outside of the Ouse / Cam so hopefully we won't create a blockage!

Thanks for the adive - I'm getting a couple of quotes so defintely adding these to the list 👍

I thought I had to discuss with 2 different parties but this would make things more straightforward - thanks for the advice.