Replating - Any advice welcome

[Ian M]

Hello all

 

Feel free to throw advice or abuse my way...

 

I bought a 1976 Springer (40'), after the owner got funny I agreed to go without survey for a reduced price. Yep, I know... She assured me it had been out and blacked 2 years ago. Needless to say she was telling porkies and my survey has shown that it hasn't been out the water in about 10 years and now desperately needs a full replate upto the waterline which is gonna cost nearly as much as the boat did and It'll never be worth what I paid.

 

Anyway, I'm getting over it and the lesson is learned. But now what do I do?

 

The yard it's out of the water at is quoting £13k for the work. They make fantastic dutch barges and will do it in 1 piece of gloriously thick steel. 30 miles (and as many locks) away I've had a quote for £7k for what appears to be the same job, though maybe not quite to the same high standard.

 

The barge building yard are fairly uncomplementary about the work they do at the cheaper yard. Both places are going to blast the hull, theres another that I'm waiting on a quote for that wouldn't be able to. I'm thinking that it would be much better to have that done but if the price is much better... How much do you spend before you think enough is enough???

 

It's a long way to the cheaper yard and I'm not feeling very confident about the strength of the boat. Should I just stick her back in and get her to the new yard asap? Black her first and take my time (I'm just waiting to hear when they could fit me in)? Bite the bullet and pay more than the boats worth getting a designer hull where it is? Or stick a for sale sign on her, cut my losses and run away with my head in my hands?

 

Like I say, any words of advice would be appreciated, or tales of woe to know I'm not the only idiot out there. Taunts are fine, I think I've heard 'e all oer the last week.

 

And hello, hope to be speaking about more cheery things on this list soon!

 

Cheers

Ian

[bottle]

Ian

 

First things first, Welcome to the forum.

 

Wish it could be in better circumstances, I would not be able to advise you on what to do.

 

I will give a little advice though, as the farmer gave to the stranger, 'You don't want to be starting from here'

 

Joking apart (it was meant as one) I wish you good luck.

 

The weekend maybe a bit quiet but someone will pop up soon with better knowledge than me.

[1066]

Whether it is 7k or 13k, I honestly don't think it is worth it to restore a Springer. If it still floats, sell it and spend your money on something better.

 

Just my two penn'orth, FWIW.

[onthecut]

Hi Ian.

 

First off --- hard luck and commiserations. I'm guessing you haven't paid an absolute fortune for the boat ---- I'd be looking at taking the hit and selling it on, as is. Whatever you spend on it, it's still a 30 year old boat and plating it only gets you to the starting line of whatever else might want doing. Bear in mind, £13k will buy you a new hull from somewhere like Liverpool Boats. I know it's easy to judge when it's not one's own money, but I really do think you're in danger of entering the good money after bad syndrome.

 

Mike.

[Gary Peacock]

My advice is get rid and let someone else work out how much to spend on it!

 

The value of the boat is very unlikely to make it worth the cost of any commercial work being done on it These days the costs make most replating jobs very much a case of more money than sense.

[Supermalc]

I agree, not worth replating, but......with some work you should get most, if not all your money back.

 

Just how thin has the hull become? (You say you've had a survey)

 

It doesn't cost a fortune to lift out for blacking. Doesn't your survey tell you where the thin parts are. Probably welding a plate over any really dangerously thin parts would be an option. However 2 or 3 good thick coats of bitumin should last a year or two on their own.

 

What is the rest of the boat like. Remember cleanliness sells, so make the most of what you have. You'd be surprised, with a really good clean, newly blacked bottom and probably a quick repaint you might even make a profit.

[John Orentas]

This is getting boring, I have to agree with the others, but to save your conscience be upfront about it's condition. Most buyers won't be surprised to hear that a 30 year old Springer is a bit of a 'dog' but all boats have a value.

 

There are many strange people that are handy with a welding set and would take it on as a project, though you will have to be prepared to take virtually what you are offered.

[Maverick]

This is getting boring, I have to agree with the others, but to save your conscience be upfront about it's condition. Most buyers won't be surprised to hear that a 30 year old Springer is a bit of a 'dog' but all boats have a value.

 

There are many strange people that are handy with a welding set and would take it on as a project, though you will have to be prepared to take virtually what you are offered.

 

Having only done many welding jobs on cars in the past with gas and a mig I would have thought welding whopping big plates onto a boat hull was a little bit trickier than just turning up the heat and using thicker wire isnt it????

 

Does 6 - 8 mm plate bend to the curve easy enough if you give it a push then?

[Supermalc]

Having only done many welding jobs on cars in the past with gas and a mig I would have thought welding whopping big plates onto a boat hull was a little bit trickier than just turning up the heat and using thicker wire isnt it????

 

Does 6 - 8 mm plate bend to the curve easy enough if you give it a push then?

 

One of my trades is welding, which I spent much of my 4 years as an agricultural engineer, when I left school and college. Also Stock Car and Banger racing requires good welding skills, so that has filled many an evening.

 

Welding thin metal is a pain, welding thick, a doddle......unless it's gas of course. But stick and mig.....easy. You will probably discover there are only 2 or 3 patches required anyway. I thought NB had flat sides......must be mistaken.

[Maverick]

One of my trades is welding, which I spent much of my 4 years as an agricultural engineer, when I left school and college. Also Stock Car and Banger racing requires good welding skills, so that has filled many an evening.

 

Welding thin metal is a pain, welding thick, a doddle......unless it's gas of course. But stick and mig.....easy. You will probably discover there are only 2 or 3 patches required anyway. I thought NB had flat sides......must be mistaken.

 

I bow to your experience malc. was referring to springers as in the original thread. are the v-shapes flat steel or do they curve from the sides to the underneath? never seen a springer out the water

[magnetman]

If you were plating a springer I'd expect 4mm plate would be used. Quite tricky to bend to the front swim shape but do-able.If you were plating a springer I'd expect 4mm plate would be used. Quite tricky to bend to the front swim shape but do-able.

[John Orentas]

I bow to your experience malc. was referring to springers as in the original thread. are the v-shapes flat steel or do they curve from the sides to the underneath? never seen a springer out the water

 

 

In practise you would not re-plate using thicker than 4 or 5 mm.. Springers were not built with anything thicker than that.. Not much problem forming that thickness to gradual profile.

Edited November 10, 2007 by John Orentas

[Maverick]

If you were plating a springer I'd expect 4mm plate would be used. Quite tricky to bend to the front swim shape but do-able.If you were plating a springer I'd expect 4mm plate would be used. Quite tricky to bend to the front swim shape but do-able.

 

does sound a bit trickier then. I spent 15yrs doing mot repairs and welding new wings n bits on etc but obviously as the thin steel gets hot it pushes or taps into place very easily. didnt imagine big sheets of thick steel would get hot enough to enable them to be manipulated as easily into place.

 

Out of interest say any of you out there who can diy weld yourselves were given a springer for free that needed new sides welding on. would you do it for your self or would the cost of the steel and the size of the job be to much

Edited November 10, 2007 by Maverick

[Supermalc]

I bow to your experience malc. was referring to springers as in the original thread. are the v-shapes flat steel or do they curve from the sides to the underneath? never seen a springer out the water

 

Does the underneath require doing......I'll have to bow to someone's experience on this. From what I've been told, which I admit isn't much, it is the wind and waterline that seems to suffer the most.

 

Ok, if there are many areas that are in danger of going through, then yes you would have to do a 'proper job' i.e. a full replating, but given the boat, the age etc. If you can bodge it up to last for another few years, well surely you'll get your money's worth. Remember it takes around £3000 a year to properly look after a 60ft NB, so if you pay £8000 for one, then spend £1000 over 3 years, you'll still get the boat for nothing.......AND it'll still be worth something when you are done with it.

[magnetman]

Bottle jacks or acro-props are used I think.Bottle jacks or acro-props are used I think.

[1066]

Out of interest say any of you out there who can diy weld yourselves were given a springer for free that needed new sides welding on. would you do it for your self or would the cost of the steel and the size of the job be to much

 

I would say thanks, but no thanks ...... it just would not be worth the effort.

[onthecut]

Hi Supermalc.

 

I guess we all have different things we fret about --- what would concern me in bodging a 30 year old Springer is whether I had correctly identified all the bits in need of. Friend of mine had a slightly newer one, clobbered the bank and ripped out the front dragging eye -- presumably one of the toughest bits of the boat in theory ! On my similarly aged Harborough, the worst corrosion was inside the hull and had I not ripped out a chunk of the interior, I would probably have been oblivious to it until it was too late. Would spoil my boating, always wondering if the next impact was going to be the wet one !!

 

Mike.

[Yoda]

....my survey has shown that it hasn't been out the water in about 10 years and now desperately needs a full replate upto the waterline which is gonna cost nearly as much as the boat did and It'll never be worth what I paid.

 

The yard it's out of the water at is quoting £13k for the work. They make fantastic dutch barges and will do it in 1 piece of gloriously thick steel. 30 miles (and as many locks) away I've had a quote for £7k for what appears to be the same job, though maybe not quite to the same high standard.

 

Ian

 

You have bought a project. It does not require full replating but some work.

 

Firstly, find out exactly where the hull needs replating. Clean these areas and prep for welding. Go to a car dump and cut lots of straight panels from vans and cars. Prep these for welding. Do an evening class on welding steel. Buy welder and hammer and go to it. Problem solved and money saved. Re-black hull refloat and go and indulge yourself in the knowledge that it wiil not sink now that you fixed it.

 

Next!

[Maverick]

You have bought a project. It does not require full replating but some work.

 

Firstly, find out exactly where the hull needs replating. Clean these areas and prep for welding. Go to a car dump and cut lots of straight panels from vans and cars. Prep these for welding. Do an evening class on welding steel. Buy welder and hammer and go to it. Problem solved and money saved. Re-black hull refloat and go and indulge yourself in the knowledge that it wiil not sink now that you fixed it.

 

Next!

 

Great advice. Cant fault that. well done that man

 

Edited to say:- maybe a pop riveter and tube of seam sealer may be a bit cheaper than a welder

Edited November 10, 2007 by Maverick

[ChrisPy]

as John says, it should be easy to pull plate into a curve if it is no more than 5mm thick. A combination of pull lifts (chain come-alongs) levers, jacks and clamps will persuade 5mm plate into any normal 'conical' shape. 6mm is the beginning of the impossible - needs industrial solutions.

 

Note that if the shape you are trying to attain is not 'conical' then you are trying to stretch the steel which is not possible, and should never be necessary when building a canal boat. If you have any doubt about the shape you are trying to achieve, test it with a piece of hardboard first.

[Supermalc]

Out of interest say any of you out there who can diy weld yourselves were given a springer for free that needed new sides welding on. would you do it for your self or would the cost of the steel and the size of the job be to much

 

If I was given a springer for free, I'd weigh it in, and use the money to buy a decent GRP cruiser. Savings all round, and a much better boat to go boating with.

[Hairy-Neil]

You're all thinking inside the box here.

 

Would be simpler to fit a flat botton and extend the sided down to meet it......

 

 

If you were plating a springer I'd expect 4mm plate would be used. Quite tricky to bend to the front swim shape but do-able.If you were plating a springer I'd expect 4mm plate would be used. Quite tricky to bend to the front swim shape but do-able.

 

 

Not much problem forming that thickness to gradual profile.

 

 

as John says, it should be easy to pull plate into a curve if it is no more than 5mm thick. A combination of pull lifts (chain come-alongs) levers, jacks and clamps will persuade 5mm plate into any normal 'conical' shape.

[magnetman]

And weld the front swim as a box section as well???. Don't think it'd go along too well in the water

[Gnome K Gnome]

And weld the front swim as a box section as well???. Don't think it'd go along too well in the water

 

 

 

We're talking here of a 30 year old cheap and cheerful boat with a poor build spec and crap lines even when it was new. Why attempt to 'polish a turd' with fancy one piece bottom plate crafted by a master fabricator. At the end of the day it won't make the boat worth one penny more.....

[ditch paddler]

Why don't you look for a self employed mobile welder, i know a few get him to give you a price for a weeks welding, you source the steel from scrap yards etc do all the preperation work and just get welder to carry ouy welding for you and labour for him to keep his time on the welding. You be suprised how much you will get done in a week and a lot cheaper than paying a boat yard.