Electrical Installation

[steveh]

Does anyone know if the new domestic electrical installation regualutions effect boat building?

 

New colour system for 240v wiring and approved installation certificate for approved electrician etc

[NB Willawaw]

Grey area I think at the moment, but its only a matter of time before it follows the similar situation with gas on boats where the installer has to be qualified.

 

At the end of the day, 240V can kill on boats just as well as it can on land.

 

Presumerably the BSS will pick this up in due course ?

 

Has Gary Peacock heard anything ?

 

Mark

[ChrisPy]

........  the similar situation with gas on boats where the installer has to be qualified.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

NOT STRICTLY TRUE??

[John Orentas]

Why is everyone on this forum falling over themselves to become "Regulated" in every aspect of boating.

 

All this will become a self fulfilling prophecy. You are not required to have your gas or your electrical installations carried out by 'approved' installers.

 

All we are doing is wishing this on ourselves.

 

I have built two boats for my own use and apart from building the shell I have done everything and I mean everything myself, and I have never had the slightest difficulties with the safety scheme or anything else.

 

The way we are heading, canal boats will be the preserve of the wealthy.

Edited March 30, 2005 by John Orentas

[steveh]

Why is ever body on this forum falling over themselves to become "Regulated" in every aspect of boating.

 

All this will become a self fulfilling prophecy.  You are not required to have your gas or your electrical installations carried out by 'approved' installers.

 

All we are doing is wishing this on ourselves.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

As i stated before this is a new law introdued by our goverment in January for householders due to so called competant people killing themselves. As power tools become cheaper and cheaper DIY is getting bigger hence the new law. When you need or have to make a claim against the insurance for whatever reason they could with hold funds due to a lack of certification or maybe even a Mark said BSS require it later on.

Edited March 30, 2005 by steveh

[DHutch]

Presumerably the BSS will pick this up in due course ?

 

I hope they dont, becuase its stupid!

 

Is it going to get to the point where you cant even change a light bulb without a Degree in electrical science and instalation?

 

I wired our whole garage/store/workroom when i was about 13, and though i say it myself, i think its proberbly the best wired garage in cheshire! I Shudder to think how long it would take and how much would cost if we had had to get a "accreted electrician" to do it for us!

 

 

STOP IT world, you cant make everything safe, Ahhhhh (rant over, sorry) ;angry:

 

Daniel

Edited March 30, 2005 by dhutch

[steveh]

I only asked a question no need to bit peoples head off because you all can wire a plug!

[steveh]

Just a little footnote the law reads that anyone can install it, you need a approved person to check and certify it.

[John Orentas]

Steveh.

 

Are you also going to get an approved person to fit your carpet just in case if someone trips over it, if you can afford that sort of lifestyle I most certainly cannot.

 

Some people still prefer to build their own boat rather than employing a succession of 'approved people' trampling in and out of it, many people are technically able to do it in spite what sceptics may say and why should they not be allowed to do that.

 

The world is full of people telling others what to do.

[steveh]

I take it that all your boats have BSS cert's?

 

Or maybe your cars have MOT's cert's?

 

Why is that?

 

Because it the law.

 

I ask my orignal question

 

"Does anyone know if the new domestic electrical installation regualutions effect boat building?

 

New colour system for 240v wiring and approved installation certificate for approved electrician etc"

 

Thank you Jon it appears the current answer is no, it is not required.

 

 

EDIT

 

Do you require a approved person to install carpet?

 

Not as yet as it appears not many people have been reportly killed due ill fit shag pile or miss laid rug

Edited March 30, 2005 by steveh

[DHutch]

I only asked a question no need to bit peoples head off because you all can wire a plug!

 

Yeah, i guess your right.

- You did only asked a question, and tbh, i dont know the answer.

 

But the world is just so infurating at the moment, drives me (us) mad!

 

 

 

Daniel (slightly calmer now)

[steveh]

Don't you think it drives me mad, i currently trying to budget to either build my own or have a fully fitted bugger so i can enjoy 200 years a engineering? and all i see is the cost building up and up and up!

 

Edited March 30, 2005 by steveh

[DHutch]

I take it that all your boats have BSS cert's?

 

Yeah, shes scraped though so far!

 

Infact the first time, when she was new apprentlty the inspecter comented specificaly that her wiring was very neat, organised, and well thoughout, and asked who had done it, and promptly nearly fellover when my grandad sayed he did it!

 

 

Daniel

[dor]

Steve:

 

As soon as I saw the first two posts I knew that there would be comments about what we need, don't need and why should we etc.

 

It is unfortunate that Part P has become law. I believe the figure for deaths due to incompetent domestic electrical work is 1.7 deaths per year. I don't think Part P will do much to alter that. My cynical mind tells me it is all to do with the IEE and NICEIC trying to ensure they get more work for their members, who can then charge the earth for it.

 

How they police it is another matter.

 

It shouldn't matter who installs the gas or electrical work on your boat, it should be down to knowing if you are competent or not. No legislation will stop the fools messing with things they don't understand. It is up to the BSS inspector to check the installation for safety, and the common sense of the owner to use it properly. If in doubt get a gas safety check done.

 

As far as I am aware there is nothing in the forthcoming new BSS regs that will affect who can install the work. I don't even think the current BSS makes any reference to what colour wires you use. (and even if it did, it would probably be advisory!).

 

But Part P is a worrying development of a government that is determined to wrap everyone up in cotton wool. What next: you need a certified builder to put a fence post in? How long before we have to get a "professional" in to change a light bulb?

[Richard Bustens]

Don't you think it drives me mad, i currently trying to budget to either build my own or have a fully fitted bugger so i can enjoy 200 years a engineering? and all i see is the cost building up and up and up!

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yep the costs just keeps on going up.

I worked on 60K and have not hardley started yet and am already 10K over budget.

 

It is the little things you dont think about shower pump and tank £200 then the pipe @£3 per mtr £50 for terminals and padlocks at £10 each skin fittings etc it all adds up

 

I costed the main things then added 10K for bits and bobs but it is no ware neer.

[steveh]

Yep the costs just keeps on going up.

I worked on 60K and have not hardley started yet and am already 10K over budget.

 

It is the little things you dont think about shower pump and tank £200 then the pipe @£3 per mtr £50 for terminals and padlocks at £10 each  skin fittings etc it all adds up

 

I costed the main things then added 10K for bits and bobs but it is no ware neer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

what percentage should i build in for the wife factor? 85%?

[Richard Bustens]

That sounds about right but you can get this down to single figures, Dump her.

[steveh]

That sounds about right but you can get this down to single figures, Dump her.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

will still talking about money here and not weight?

[David Schweizer]

I read about this new law, and than wondered why you can still purchase wiring components in retail outlets without producing any evidence of qualification or competence. I have since heard that the new law only applies to electrical work on property which is not your normal residence. This sounds a bit more sensible, but I have not been able to establish whether it is actually correct.

 

As far as boats are concerned, I am with John Orentas's earlier comments. I have done a lot of wiring and gas work on my boat with no problems. In fact the last BSS surveyor commented on the quality and neatness of the instalation. The BSS scheme only requires instalation to be undertaken by a "Competent" person not a "qualified" person. let's keep it that way.

Edited March 30, 2005 by David Schweizer

[steveh]

found this link which answer all our questions!

 

DOH

 

http://www.niceic.org.uk/consumers/ppnotify.html

 

If you look right at the bottom if says 'Not required to notify if installing into a motor caravan'

 

nothing currently about boats

Edited March 30, 2005 by steveh

[steveh]

Link now works, there were 2 http:// in the beginning strange that

 

look here as well

 

http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odp...age/br0054.hcsp

Edited March 30, 2005 by steveh

[NB Willawaw]

Sorry Chris. Wrong choice of words. Typing quick while shoving food in mouth during a break waiting for a lock.

 

Of course, the gas installer doesn't have to be qualified, but the installation does have to be approved by a qualified person. As I said, in a world of PC-ness and nanny caring, I suspect that it will happen with the old elec-trickery - AC wise anyway.

 

Mark

 

 

Steve mate,

 

Don't let them stress you out. The great thing about a forum is that everybody is entitled to their opinion, right or wrong and while certain individuals only want to hear agreement, its what makes Britain Great.

 

 

NOT STRICTLY TRUE??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[John Orentas]

There was a chap on the radio the other day giving some clarification on the proposed new regulation, he said it is quite in order to put in an extra spur socket or modify lighting.

 

The proposal was aimed at, as he put it the odd job man around the corner who works commercially but without qualifications, it is not really aimed at the householder.

[dor]

Part P does allow for limited fixed wiring by householders, e.g. adding a single spur as John mentions. Also allowed are changing light fittings and similar limited amendments. However you can only do this on your own property.

 

The potential problem will arise when you come to sell the property. At present, estate agents usually make reference to what is installed but say it is up to the purchaser to ensure that it meets requirements. What is likely to happen in future is that you will have to be able to prove that any electrical (or gas) work has been properly signed off by a qualified tradesman. If not, you may be required to show a certificate of conformity to prove that the electrical and gas installations are safe. This is a shift of responsibility which will cost you money. At present, when you buy a house you check the safety of the installation, either yourself if competent or by a surveyor (not likely to be the onew who checks if the house is about to fall down). The former doesn't cost you anything at present.

 

However if you have to get a certificate of conformity before you sell the house, it doesn't matter how competent you are, it will cost you £5-600!

 

And current domestic gas regs have some surprising bits that can render your house "not to current standards". E.g. high level kitchen cupboards adjacent to a hob (like most kitchens in the country), or the balanced flue vent of a boiler being within one metre of the property boundary - tricky if you have a semi or terraced house with the combi mounted on a party wall. Prepare to dig deep!

[John Orentas]

Steve.

 

Ref. your link.

 

It says in the blurb "We are not a trade association" well if it isn't I don't know what is.

 

I also noticed "We employ 80 + people in our head office". Who pays their wages ? (Rhetorical question)

Edited March 30, 2005 by John Orentas