Derek R.

I'm sure Laurence's DVD's are well worth purchasing (though hopefully free from hobby music tastes). However, how much more representative of English canals would these video clips be if instead of being assaulted by such a cacophany, we heard the sounds of the cut - paddles being raised; water rushing through gate paddles; sounds of windlass on cabin slide; boat engines, and maybe a horse taking some strain; gates closing; a train steaming by, or the sound of an AEC or whatever - the sounds of life as it was. All of these can be reproduced, and not necessarily in synchronisation with the activities. As to the photo reversals to negative, and the colour distortions along with the rapid fire twisting of images - it's more like being at the commencement of the barrage at Tobruk! Could it be any more removed from canal life reality? Sorry to harp on about it, but I really do think it's an opportunity to educate - World Wide is lost. System failure. Only the air is Blue. It takes a long time to build a good reputation, and seconds to destroy it. Keep 'em coming Laurence - but not with a sledge hammer please! I'll say no more. Derek

It's just not 'Morris' Old chap! "Caribou - on the lawn . . ." "Goorn."

I'm so glad there's a 'mute' button. Laurence, if these video clips are any measure of what the full length DVD's you are selling are like - count me out. All this twisting and photo reversal is an insult on the senses. I can appreciate you are seeking more sales, but I do think this is the wrong approach. Derek

Shot in the dark - Is that Imperial Mill in the background?

What a bunch of Stars we have here!

Nice shot, needless to say recently painted and looking very good. Can you tell us more about the boat from which the photo was taken or anything about the steerers? Derek

I don't really think the location of a sunken barge is as important, as much as it represents things that are being constantly lost. There is an interesting shot of a London remnant in the photo file. Just a 'T' stud and remains of a stem piece sticking out the ground, but an intriguing shackle fitted at the base, and mounted on the remains of what must have been a nice piece of the Blacksmith's art at one time. Not so common methinks. Yahoo I find suffer-able, and it has it points. Online, ALL the messages are listed chronologically, there are no categories as such, and so nothing need be missed. You just click on the messages you want to read. As it is fairly specific to an area, then there's not a lot of likelyhood of it being oversubscribed to the point of distraction. True photo's cannot easily be placed in a message, but there are albums that can be created. Overall I do prefer this type of forum format as it has more 'flexibilty' with posting things. A lot may also depend on what one is used to - I got scribbling on Yahoo before I met this type, so I'm kind of 'bi-lingual'. Derek

Excellent project! Always interested in knowing what disappeared, and where it went. Well done. Derek PS An interesting addition might be the date when it was closed/filled in.

Oh-Dear! I do hope comparing Perseus to a Routemaster bus doesn't cause it to end up with the same fate!! Iconic they may have been to several generations, but gone they are now from regular scheduled service. Derek

Thanks Pete, Local 'Vintage Emporium' (second hand clothes jewellery furniture you name it) has a pile of magazines, might browse along and search for more. Derek

Very nice. Hodgson was a master painter, and Reg has a very good likeness. Possibly and probably slightly different, and that's a person's signature, but the style is superb. My favourite. Derek

The picture credits are definitely attributed to an E. R. McNaughton.

From the 1955 Spring edition of 'Hertfordshire Countryside', an article by T. H. Hook comments on the fashion for filling in canals that bear no traffic, and ponders the future of the remaining canal system as possibly one for leisure. 1954 saw 12,000,000 tons carried. These shots show Iron Bridge lock and a pair departing North - Uttoxeter and ? Battersea possibly? Battersea was paired with Uttoxeter during the 'Trainee' years, but that was nine years earlier. Can anyone identify the motor and crew? Sleeves rolled up, Trilby, bib'n brace, and Wellies. The lady in the butty wears a headscarf. The second see's a regular tourist service just leaving Albert's Two that was commented on as being an ideal way to introduce young people to the canals and their history. This trip boat, along with Denebola, was described as running from Croxley Bridge to Grove Mill on Sundays, taking one hour each way. Seventy people can be seated in each, and refreshments available in the form of Tea for the adults, and 'pop' for the children. Extended cabin for 'catering'. Both photo's by E. R. McNaughton.

I think we will have to wait until more confidence has returned to the money market for further action. An approach to Three Rivers District Council's planning department might be one avenue of investigation. What used to be can be seen in Robert Wilson's 'Too Many Boats'. A picture credited to John Dickinson Ltd. of one pair of boats being unloaded by the overhead grab crane, with another pair behind waiting. On P.12. Derek

Thank you Sue, and Den, I admire Rolt's writing, and whilst not trying to emulate him - these are my own sentiments - I think he might be jogging my arm a bit. But that's just a fancy. Derek

No answers, just comment. Any new industrial artefact, be it canal, railway, motorway, will draw complaint. It represents a change from what has gone before, and usually that was field and farm which represented stability, solidarity, and reliability - even if only in the mind. I'm reminded of the Greywell tunnel on the Basingstoke canal. When talk went around that there might be a possibility of restoring the tunnel for navigation, shrieks of protest went up about how the boats would disturb the now large colony of Bats that dwelt within - "Where will the Bats go - Save our Bats!". There were other considerations involved in such a restoration, and the idea seemed to be dropped, but it does beg the questions; Where did the Bats live before the tunnel was built? and; what was it built for anyway? It seems to me the most ardent environmentalists today are middle class people who have never got their hands calloused from wielding manual tools, and who see 'Nature' as vulnerable and sacrosanct, and in need of saving no matter what is involved. Whenever some species or other comes into contact with mankind's work, they are there to leap to its defence. There are instances of netting and other forms of animal access made available to wildlife where concrete walls of motorway embankments have cut through regular wildlife trails, and we know the most efficient kind of canal bank protection in the form of steel and concrete piling is far from wildlife friendly, and all who cherish the 'natural' form of canal that meanders rather than goes bullet straight, are far more attractive to cruise on - but that was not what they were built for - nor do they now appear as they were built! However, as the journey along country lane is a far more attractive proposition than a Motorway for pleasure, then a modern day compromise is needed when viewing what is best suited for a canal environment that both serves as a reminder of its industrial past, and at the same time making maintenance and ongoing sustainability (never thought I would come round to using 'that' word) of canal side architecture. If a Mill building cannot be utilised into a block of residences, then ultimately it will disappear - Wander's. Unsustainable. In 1983 we went through Shelton Steelworks that still sounded to the continuous ringing of hot metal through the rolling mills. There was a sense of urgency and industry that could be felt in the very air we breathed - exciting and intoxicating - this was no place for Moorhen and Kingfisher, yet still, they were not far away. I have a photo I took in 1988 at Plank Lane with the pit head gear in place. It serves as a graphic reminder of the area and its industry. Gone, the place tells us little of what the area was. No reminder of those who worked below in dust, dirt and noise. New canalside housing estates sanitise and fudge the landscape into a picture book with no pictures. Pass by John Dickinson's at Apsley, or Croxley, and the past is no longer there. Re-visit a place of your childhood where railway sidings and goods yards existed complete with the sounds of clinking buffers and whistles, and the view is now of flats and shopping malls. A place as alien as the surface of the Moon. To the new resident of such a canalside home the canal appears as a strip of natural water upon and along which wildlife thrives - a waterfeature par excellence. They might have been less enthusiastic about coal boats and the smoking chimneys that so disturb the new residents of warehouse dwellers in inner city basins. The new intolerance of people for other people, living, and perhaps working a different lifestyle to their own in 'their' new back yard, is a symptom of the modern world. All created by the need to recreate an outlook from a glossy property developers portfolio, 'Nature' magazine, or holiday brochure. Good riddance to smoke, smells, and noisy workmen's banter. It's as though what had been before, never existed. It is the intolerance born of ignorance that leaves us with insanity, a loss of logic - and amongst those who remember - a craving for the past. Derek

Well that's right. Daft to make judgments on a photo, and I suppose it was made a bit tongue in cheek. From what I was led to believe, Tycho had it's stern tube bearing replaced more recently. But I have no hard evidence that it was so. Having a shaft bearing support half way along and mounted to a hefty bracket fixed to the bottom plates can bring alignment problems when on dock. A lot depends on the placing of bostocks, and the shape of the bottom (Tycho's not flat). Afloat there should be perfect alignment, but on dock the bottom was pushed up (bed'ole wouldn't close), consequently the shafting was under pressure. Any adjustments made under those circumstances would be put out when refloated, and the engine had been out prior to '99 - on dock or not I do not know. But as Tim says, they have lasted seventy years, and much of that in work, so can't be bad at all. Modernboats - built for convenience of the owner's lifestyle. Nissan Micra's and 1930's Sunbeams - I know which I'd rather own and work on! Derek

Looking at that set up, it would seem to me to be ripe for creating some whip between the gearbox output and the metalastic, which, because of its rotating mass, might induce an eccentric orbiting motion, in turn inducing wear in the stern tube. More support needed - the flexibility of the compound of the metalastic might be adding to the problem. However, I don't know the working rpm of the output. Even so, it doesn't look a happy bunny to me. This isn't the unit that failed though, is it? Maybe I'm over estimating it's ability to 'bend'. (Strange deja-vu moment there). It looks very much as Tycho was, and that had stern tube wear problems. Derek

. . And I might sound like the Devil's advocate, but stay away from seventy footers. Not that I doubt you might not be able to handle one - anyone can learn (though some have trouble after many years!) - but if you truly want to explore the canals in something historical, and want some practical vessel in which to do it, I would suggest looking for something 55' or less. Ex-tug or previously shortened something with accommodation - which means a bath/shower sink, and somewhere to work. Back cabins alone are for the seriously afflicted in today's fully equipped age. Though there is much value in going back to basics, after a days filthy weather a back cabin can be a soul destroying place if your used to somewhere to hang stuff, and a hot bath. Apart from Waterways World, and BW's 'heritage' fleet take a look at the HNBOC website, maybe join and get a wider feel. As you may have become aware, there is much concern over the 'converting' of former historic vessels away from their original format, though in the end, whilst it would be necessary to retain many in their original form, practicalities may determine otherwise amongst craft already converted, and still be a worthy vessel of historic note. I have no leads for you though. Can't help there. Ear to the grape-vine, and personal approaches to yards and owners. If you think you are mad - you probably are. But if you want to work on and live in a back cabin - you will just get on and do it. Derek

Damn! Found out again. . .

It is a nice looking cruiser, reminds me of 'Eagle'. But I have single handed, scratch built a garden shed from 4x2's for framing; shiplap 6"x 3/4"; and Stirling board lined, fully insulated, with damp courses, and a fitted solid fuel range, all on a custom made concrete base - all up it cost me £1k in materials. It didn't need a dry dock, steam chest, or any occasional help from anyone - but I would not take on such a wooden boat. Come to that, I'm wondering why I'm still with a boat at all - the shed is no problem! - No mooring fee, no licence, no compulsory insurance, no compliance needed. Think I'll move in . . . (Might have trouble getting it through a lock though). Derek

I'm sure you are correct about transcriptions, and her story was taken down I believe at Bournemouth. It was from Bournemouth Library that I first discovered her story, and Narrow Boat magazine has a link to the series. However, with regard to the gate mechanisms, Mrs. Peters was sure they were connected by wires. From part four of her recollections, I quote: - "The gates are exceptionally heavy and by a system of wires, two open at once." I queried this point with her over the telephone, and she seemed quite sure this was so. In truth, I believe it may well have been some action of the water flow that made this seem so, as they have never been so connected, and the reference is not to the paddles at all. 'Fourteen' is easily mistaken for 'Forty', though I find a fourteen foot shaft neither good to man nor beast! From standing on the boat and shafting off the bottom, you are left holding the end when the bottom is felt! Nothing left to push with (and it's too long for poking gates!). Eighteen to twenty one is far more use. But I doubt you'll find a forty foot shaft outside of wide boats and docks. Mrs. Peters also thought she must have been mistaken on that one. We had an interesting chat, and I sent her a revised copy of her account with small changes, such as Alperton where the transcript said Appleton and so on. The intention was to have her clear my 'audited' version for possible inclusion in the Historic Narrow Boat Club's journal. Sadly, I have not heard from her since. Derek

Excellent! Thanks very much for looking them out. I chased some links for Little Maestro, several models with that name, THIS one looks like it. Derek PS Just looked at the Perdios - I had a Popsy in the leather case back in 1960! Memories of listening to Luxembourg fading away and back!

It's very good, though one or two points are confusing. I contacted her about them, and we chatted on the phone for some time. She mentions '40 foot shafts, but of course it is more likely to be 21 foot or thereabouts, and the opening of the gates together on the Northern GU being connected by wires. This is not so, nor have Waterways archive been able to suggest it was ever intended. So maybe someone was having her on about that one! Nonetheless, a valuable collection of a Wartime trainees experiences. I would still highly commend any of D.D. Gladwins books for not just the details of which canal, when and why, but the background to attitudes towards the cut, and the folk of the cut - as well as their own experiences, written in a very engaging way. We bumped into George Phipps and his wife back in the late eighties skimming along in a forty footer. Anyone know if they are still about? Derek

Just to endorse the fact that there is history written down that will never get into print. In '83 we were tied up at Keadby waiting for fog to lift, and spent a day in the local Library (quite near the lock). In there was a hand typed manuscript several hundred pages long, it was a biography telling the story of a Yorkshire Keelman and his life on the Keel boats and the Trent in general. I didn't get to read it all, but I'll wager there is a lot of detailed history that IS written down, and has never been in print. Derek