Derek R.

Thanks Martin, just had the email and pdf. Between a rock and a hard place for all. Does make me rather cross about lack of communication on one hand, and a seeming contradictory statement claimed for English Heritage on the other. More like butter on burnt toast. Derek

Whoopie. 14 houses out of character with the surroundings, with 44 car parking spaces and a potential for 68 inhabitants. A wharf that won't be, a refurbished and relocated crane never to be used, (there are no images in the developed site showing this) and from the supporting document 890556, planning statement - the elsan and refuse point to be moved to Tringford Pump House - seven locks up, and up the arm. Couldn't be better. Bearing in mind the families taking residence will have children, their first concern maybe for secure fencing around the waters edge. Instantly this will create an isolated island with access by two narrow bridges. How soon will the locals be calling it 'Alcatraz' I wonder. The site covers . 49hectares and the proposal is for 14 houses. This just falls below the 'affordable housing SPD (2007)' threshold, which demands .5 hectares and 15 houses. So it would seem this is the optimum number of dwellings that can be squeezed in without needing to meet SPD (2007). Any fewer and profits would lessen, any more, and they would have to cap prices. They're not silly. Unless I have that wrong - then I'm silly. The concern over the old warehouse seems to be that it may not be so old, so no loss. I disagree. The fact that it is not of local stone seems to have raised this point about its legitimate heritage. But the Church is also (correct me if I'm wrong) not of local stone. So as the canal was built during the early part of the nineteenth century when Marsworth was considerably smaller, why should the 'not local stone' claim be of any consequence? It has been there a long time, and as such, is indeed a locally known 'historic' canal warehouse - despite that BW have bastardised it successively over the years. It would be helpful if the source of this 'good news' were made available? Documented - or oral? Derek

Make sure you venture into the Kingsway underpass, and Down Street Station! Here's my old patch Noel Park & Palace Gates. And getting back to Riverside locations, do visit Crossness engine video just two and a half minutes, then log onto their website for an education in London's sanitation! Full of . . . surprises. Derek PS Just been looking at the home page, and public transport - this is worth a serious look into! Excellent stuff! And some of the comments - in the 'Green' outlook of building the Olympic 'village' 500 mature trees were/are being felled.

Well you do surprise me. The fore end of Yarmouth was so admired by the owners (am I addressing that very same?) of the first Daedalus (cruiser stern) that it was copied by Roger at their request. Looking at the fore end of Kimberley as it was Enterprise in the Narrow Boat magazines article on passenger operations in Reading, looks nothing like how I remember the 'new' Daedalus. Derek

Speaking of Antelope - just seen this on the HNBOC pages: "Three cruisers, tied up in the new layby at Stone wharf, were gutted in the fire. One of Canal Cruising's staff managed to get their fleet and at least 3 other boats, including the Antelope, away from the burning boats so the fire didn't spread to the historic buildings nor (being selfish here) to Warbler, which is on the top dock. No lives lost, although all possessions gone for the 3 owners. The news coverage centred on Terry Darlington on Phyllis May (the Carcasonne boat) but at least one of the other boaters was residential, so he's lost absolutely everything." News report.

Did someone mention Braithwaite? The fore end swim began about twelve or even fifteen feet back from the stempost: I specified the back end swim to be 18' in length, and it started just forward of the engine room doors. It was an upright swim, but even so she would steer, stop, and slip through the water with barely a ripple: Louise belting along through the fields. There's a privately owned boat in Berko - Daedalus - that was built to the same dimensions by Roger Farringdon, who also did the job on Yarmouth. Doesn't have that elegant sheer of Buffalo though. Ian Kemp's Gazelle has the cabin I would have had if lack of finances hadn't got in the way. That's nice.The 1890 Antelope, sister to Buffalo, would almost certainly have been wider than the 6' 10" stated in the registry entry, and the second Antelope of 1914 also wide. It's believed the second one is the Sabey tug which went to Willow Wren and became Pullet. Later seen by Laurence Hogg at a Stoke rally in the eighties. All three were originally built as steamers, though the Sabey tug got a Perkins six pot and cabin shortened. 60' footer that was. For nigh perfect dimensions I don't think Buffalo can be beat in the shot outside Bushell's after the 1906 refit: Derek

Thanks Alan - some funny looking boats over there . . . Derek

What happened to the pictures?? Gissalook. Derek

And in what context do you see Robin Evans relating to your comment on the property portfolio please? No axe to grind here, but I am unclear about your statement and motive for not apparently wishing to sign. It would seem the portfolio is - and has in the past been used to maintain the system, by selling off Peter, to pay Paul. I think it too diverse a reason for not supporting a general response from many people to stop what is perceived to be a simple 'sell-off' (media's words, and which is almost certainly more complex), when as seen at Marsworth and elsewhere, much that was historical artefact has been turned into a health and safety 'device' with little or no use to navigation, construction or use. Furthermore, there has been visibly no outward effort at turning former interchange basins, warehouses and other structures into historic waterways features, that even if not necessarily suitable for modern day 'big bucks' development requirements, could have had an alternative function suitable for many users - refreshment rooms, retail outlets for supplies and crafts and small business etc. - when all we see are colossal steel and glass edifices that overpower and dominate, setting the canal at odds with this 'new' environment. As such waterside land is 'valued highly' so come the big bucks developers with their sparkling wallets and our waterways are forever changed - seldom for the better - from a historical as well as aesthetic point of view. This is what people are signing for, few may have read and interpreted the final paragraph: - "We urge the Government to allow British Waterways to retain its property portfolio, protecting its essential source of revenue and ensure the sustainability of its work." You can sell the family Silver, but there will come a time when there's nothing left. It would appear to me that it is British Waterways who are seeking to manage their portfolio by selling their property, but that does not count for what the petition seems to stand for as some see it, which is the Treasuries interest in grabbing it. Either way, whether BW or the Treasury have their greedy little fingers on everything, the one thing they have in common is greed. We may value the three dimensional heritage aspect, 'they' only value balancing books (regardless of PR hype). Derek PS in the last three hours, another 900 have signed.

I phoned AVDC this-morning and having got through to the planning department, and the department dealing with website responses, they were surprised that no auto-response had been received by applicants. However, a Mr. Holland went through the received emails for the day in question (23rd in my case) and did indeed find my objection and was able to read it to me. It will be acknowledged. Both he, and Maggie Walsh in planning, stated that they had never had such a response to a planning application on what is a fairly small scale site site before. Hundreds have flooded in to the department, and though each and every one will be dealt with and replied to, the numbers involved will take some time to get through. It may be a week or more before we get an acknowledgement - they have been quite taken aback by the huge response to the application. Still might be worth checking yours is received though. Derek

I smell data 'loss'. Time for phone calls. Derek

Yesterday evening when I logged onto the petition site there were 660 signatories. This morning at 11.40 - 2,514. At 18.52 a few minutes ago - 4,345. The petitions site is an attempt by government to make the public believe they are 'listening' so as to gain favour, so there is a PR exercise there - and most of their 'response' at the end of the time period are pretty pathetic. However, it is also one way of feeling the pulse of the nation (if you believe they are concerned at all!), because as with the road charging petition that hit 1.8 million, it hit all the media outlets and made them back off - if only for a while, they know that one is hated. But what such petitions can do most effectively - especially ones such as this where a national 'heritage' is 'threatened', and that everyone can avail themselves of - is the simple act of drawing the general public's attention to yet another gov.uk rip-off. Judging by the rapidity of signatories, this one could go high. We might ask what good will it do - but what harm can it do? The only harm would be - as has been stated already - is if it goes flat. So far, so good. One thing people should do, is write to their M.P. and get them to ask the Secretary of State for the Environment exactly what plans are being considered regarding the publicised 'sell-off', and perhaps taking the likes of Marsworth Yard, Marple Yard, and the tenancy terminations on eleven Waterways houses in Sharpness, as points to underline the concern. Such questions put in the House are duty bound to receive a written reply from the Secretary - or a deputy - and that will be sent to the enquirer via the M.P. If you do not get your M.P. to ASK a question, they may fob you off with 'it's not in my constituency'. Derek

In short - Yes. All 'i's dotted and 't's crossed in triplicate. You create the loopholes - and through they will dive. It may be we can only trip them up on their paths, but all hands to the pumps. Derek

Oooh! Mines dated 1973, but more like Orange than Red. Bought in the eighties I think, still with the price label - 90p, from the Waterways Book Service, Harrow. Doesn't mention a second edition or revised. Your not 'aving it either!

Thank you - N17 eh? I'm from up the road in N22. It's a viral world. Derek

Granted, construction traffic may cause some damage, especially if drivers are unaccustomed to the site. But I wouldn't hang too much weight on that peg. The yard has for many years been the recipient of cement and aggregate for pile construction, which may weigh in favour of some increase in traffic, as 'IF' any alternative to dwellings turned into a popular venue for a shop and snack site - by vehicle or water - the argument that the bridges would not stand the traffic would evaporate. Beware the two edged blade ;-) Derek

Peter Chowns; Heritage Manager, South East Waterways. Precisely. (snip) With reference to the duplicated thread(s): Probably like Laurence, I had not realised there was another thread started, as I generally only look in History and Heritage which is where I would - by nature - have and did place such a post. Perfectly understandable to have it all under one wing, but surprised no link was added FROM History and Heritage to HERE. As co-ordinated efforts are essential when campaigning for such items when so little time is left, it behoves us all to be fully aware and active when so little time is left. Can the moderators please see fit to correct this omission? Derek Ah! Touche Alan.

See case file HERE There has to date been several written objection as logged on the Council website, and others are being advanced. There is a correspondence from the Clerk to Marsworth Parish Council dated the 10th Nov. requesting a full discussion at a meeting held on 14th December 2009, as plans had not been received in time for a full discussion to be held on the 9th Nov., though it does appear the Parish Council are realising, and possibly may accept four or five dwellings as inevitable. The Case Officer, a Mark Aughterlony, states notices were posted at six points on and around the site on 4th Nov. (File Note shows where). Expiry of site publicity - 25th Nov. Date of publication in the press - 10th Nov. I would encourage the reading of the 'Heritage Assessment' document. It describes a "triangular pound lock". This would almost certainly be a side pond used twixt the upper and lower chambers of the riser. There is also a nice 1935 postcard in sepia from a written representation from the Local Historic Archivist. The conclusion of the Heritage Assessment document suggests retention of the crane and the wharf edge. All other buildings as presently exist will be demolished. Note: In all the associated 'drawings' of a finished development, no crane, nor 'wharf edge' are seen. In the Conservation Area Consent Statement, P4 2.4 lends a clue to a possible desire to be finished with the site by BW, in that any possible future use of the site and its current buildings as a fallback position to a failed redevelopment option, there would be no control over use of the site. The appraisal does not identify the existing wharf building as locally important. The unfortunate appearance of the old warehouse is I feel down to a succession of refurbishments and additions carried out with little consideration to its former purpose and appearance. Its 'Achilles Heel' is also the claim that as it is not constructed of local stone, it may not warrant historic status. This is generally born out and supported by Peter Chowns, Heritage and Environment Manager, South East Waterways. What I find disappointing, is that seemingly no alternative to residential use is being considered. Not far from me there is a farm complex which has been turned into a thriving little retail outlet for a number of varied items; from stoves and hardware, to country produce and 'collectables', with a busy cafeteria. I don't know if the existing building at Marsworth would convert to such a use as a Tea shop, and a scattering of sensitively built units replace the pretty hideous concrete barns for other items. This would create some interest in Marsworth as a place to visit, sit by the canal, and maybe venture into the local Pubs. Or do Waterways just want a big buck payback and be done with it, and let the residents of Marsworth sort out the new house dwellers in their 'Monopoly Houses'? My objection is in. Derek

News from Marsworth: British Waterways' agents have applied for Conservation Area Consent to demolish all of the buildings at Marsworth Yard, and for Full Planning Permission to build 14 houses. There has apparently been neither consultation with the local or waterways communities, nor any publicity given to the plans. [Quite how this has been achieved without breaching some rule I do not know. Perhaps they have transgressed, perhaps otherwise. ] The plans seem to be contrary to the guidance which BW have recently published, jointly with English Heritage, on waterside development ("England's Historic Waterways: A working heritage - Promoting high quality waterside development") and their guidance to planners ("Waterways & Development Plans"). [These documents can be downloaded from BW's website.] The plans can be viewed on Aylesbury Vale District Council's planning website: http://eplanning.aylesburyvaledc.gov.uk/td...searchform.aspx and enter application references 09/01945/APP and 09/01946/ACD. Objections may be submitted online by clicking the "Submit Comments" button after the application reference has been selected. The warehouse (stated as a former Carpenters' Shop in the planning documents) and adjacent crane and wharf, whilst not listed, are an integral part of the overall scene which includes the adjacent lock and lock cottage, both of which are listed buildings, and are significant elements of the Conservation Area. However, the former concrete pile works (until recently leased to concrete slab manufacturers Fencrete), whilst of relevance to the history of the canal, have no heritage or conservation value. Please note that, if you wish to submit an objection, this must be done by 25th November. THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW! Derek, with acknowledgement to Richard Booth for the news.

Superfluous? In truth, yes. But when playing with big toys nowadays, it might come as a bit of 'Gingerbread' practice, as well as a signal that the day is over, and shut down can begin. Perhaps it's the Pub bell code - someone shoots off to get them in. Derek

If you rang 'Finished with engines' you would already be stopped and tied up - wouldn't you.

Thanks Tim. Right - Richard Thomas, who has done considerable research into Canal Steamers and tugs and whose website is a mine of information, has answered my calls on bell signals as used on President. Richard is a crew member, and says that with as much confidence as possible, and having heard through various avenues that which has been 'passed on', their current bell code is as far as is possibly known - that which was used back in steamer days on the cut, but is also aware that 'Chinese Whispers' may have crept in. Anyway, over to Richard; "One ding - start moving forward. There is no set speed, pressure or revs here, just the driver's experience and the prevailing conditions. One ding - space - one ding (We call it ding - president - ding). This is the signal to the driver to increase to a faster speed but still with the consideration of the conditions. Fine adjustments are usually voice activated "Up a half" or "Down a half" This last signal can be repeated until warp speed is reached. One ding is then used to reduce speed. Again fine adjustments as above. Ding ding. The signal to go astern to achieve a rapid slowing down. (You will appreciate that there is a degree of interpretation between "Ding - President - Ding " and "Ding -Ding", which sometimes causes a certain amount of confusion and use of voice control.) Ding-ding, ding-ding, is the emergency stop signal - rarely used because we've usually yelled at the driver to stop the b----y thing or already hit whatever it was that was in the way. Ding,ding, ding requests the driver to stop the engine Finally 4 dings is equivalent to "Finished with engines" I hope all that makes sense. I should say that a good driver is usually aware of what is going on and often anticipates the bell signal. In locks, the driver is given control when we are halfway into the chamber and he brings the boat to a halt. Similarly he will usually start up to leave the chamber without waiting for a signal." This sounds to me a reasonable arrangement, and in part embodies several of the suggestions put forward throughout the thread with regard to 'voiced' commands in addition to commonsense, and a bell code. Many thanks for the contributions. Derek

Was this in an ex-working narrow boat Tim? Or something completely different (to use Pythonesque). As the bell looks to have been in situ for a lengthy period, it certainly doesn't give an indication of a quick fix for a failed gear control. Derek

Yes, no one has suggested it was or is, but a similarity was drawn with the number of 'dings', that was all. Having established what Ships Telegraphs are and how they work (thanks radiomariner), and that we do know why the Titanic struck ice and why it sank (should have gone by canal), that there was a small turbine driving a central screw (non-reversible and working at 9psi), we end up with no-one knowing about any bell codes to canal steam boat enginemen, and a doubt that they existed at all. Quiet they may have been, but voice alone amongst industry and the voices of others would not suffice when distinct engine orders were needed. So for my money there were bells, and there must have been a code. Derek

Ooops! Yes! Can't count! - 180° Derek