Derek R.

Aah! But in seeking a saviour, you are already lost. We will not be rescued, as we are the rescuers. 'V' may have been the catalyst, but it was the actions of collective individuals that brought the change. Derek

Lewis is correct. Civil liberties, such as we understand them (which is precious little - ask any man in the street) have been eroded away bit by bit over the years with pieces of legislation discussed in Parliament which have gone into the statute books one after the other with the majority knowing nothing about them. What is read, listened to and watched through the mainstream media is barely the tip of the iceberg, and selected tips at that - they write, speak, and show what sells and gets ratings. You are deceived. You are being conspired against. It is not a theory. Who amongst us, and there are many here who will remember, if they were suddenly transported from 1959 to 2009 would recognise our streets and our Bobbies? The Police force we have today resemble combatants in their stab vests, ankle boots, baseball caps and automatic weapons. Always in twos, they are trained and drawn into suspecting everyone for anything as everyone has something to hide - even if it's a covering of clothing. Those coppers lurking around Grosvenor Square, and around Norwich Street, Holborn, might look like they are ready to tackle so called terrorists with their slashed peaks and brandishing weapons. But in truth they are more likely placed to keep the indigenous population from feeling they have a right to protest. We are the threat, the response is force, the intent is fear. Of all the Worlds CCTV cameras, 10% are watching you and I. Feel safe? Or just watched? ID cards? I don't need one to know who I am, and in the event of me being found unconcious, my wallet will reveal next of kin. ID cards are only of any use to organisations who want you to be accountable for every step you take, because this is no longer a free country in which you may wander, walk in a small group, or simply take a picture of a building. We are not heading for a Police State, we are in one. But there are limitations that prevent police officers (and there is a technical difference between an Officer, and a Constable though this applies to both) in as much as if you are stopped, they have no right to demand anything of you unless you have been seen to breach the peace, or caused harm to any person. If they cannot show you have breached the peace, then simply ask if you are free to go. The police are at the forefront of political manhandling, they are the dogsbodies for Parliament, the legislative interface with you and I, and they no more like it than we do. But we cannot be rude, impolite, abusive to them in any way, despite the fact that they are often given instructions which are little more than bluff to get you to hand over to them exactly what they need to take you into custody. Be courteous, recognise their contact with you, ask why you have been detained, and if they continue with other questions in a friendly chatty way - beware, it's a trick, repeat your first question - you are not obliged to give them anything, not even your name. If they cannot give reason why you have been detained (stopped), then repeat the second question - Am I free to go? If you have done nothing wrong, they can do nothing more. You have rights, and they will push their line of questioning to get you to drop those rights - don't do it. There is a very particular way in conducting your contact with the Police, and it is vital to understand this - one of the links below is to a set of short videos on exactly this. Listen to the guy, ignore what you see, but listen. The world in which we live today is not the one we were brought up in, but it's the one that has been designed for us without our consent. ID cards will change all that which is why government want them. Once you have been forced to BUY one, you will be duty bound to not only keep all information on it up to date and supply any extra as and when wanted, but present it on demand. It's nothing to do with anti-terrorism, it's everything to do with control of the popuation at large. It is WE who are the biggest threat to our government, as we slowly and collectively are discovering what it is they are up to. MP's expenses? That's nothing! Paranoia? No, I'm not paranoid, nor is there any need to be. But we do need to be aware of our rights, and the vast majority are not. Some informative links: No to ID; UK Column listen to Brian Gerrish; Lawful Rebellion; International Banking; The Freeman Concept and much more; Common Purpose; Freedom, A book; Dealing with the Police don't be put off by the mask. Perhaps many will ignore these links, can't be bothered. Too much to read. That is exactly why we are in the situation we are in today - apathy. Can't be bothered. Derek

Generally horses would be managed by word of mouth alone or the simple presence of someone walking alongside or behind, but the sound of the whip could assist in getting some recalcitrant beasts to pick up and get on. It would be unusual for a whip to be used 'on' a horse, although there probably were one or two blokes that might. Lay a whip on a horse and the sudden reactive movement would likely cause more problems than they solved, so it was used for the sound it made. Having said that, you'll be hard pushed to find any people leading horses nor steering visibly carrying or having a whip to hand, though they might be under a coat. Motor boating saw their demise I fancy, as no motor steerer is going to hear a whip crack! Derek That's the one! Didn't know you could still buy them. Bit of paint to colour 'em and you have an attractive useful tool. Derek

That's right, for the same reason Travellers Vardo's (living vans) in the UK had their stoves on the left as you entered from the front, as the chimney was less likely to catch on overhanging branches from the roadside. Derek

They carried them to use as an audible warning of approach, a good 'crack' could be heard easily at 100yds. Yes, there are examples in museums and period photographs of Ladies with them. They were also used to announce their approach to blind bends and bridge 'oles, as well as in fog. (remember fog?) Copyrights to the following authors: From 'Canal Arts & Crafts' by Avril Lansdell, Shire book, ISBN 0-7478-0586-5 'Canal Recollections' By Julian Holland, ISBN 1-85585-396-5 A studio shot C1910. 'The Narrow Boat Book' by Tom Chaplin, ISBN 0-905483-05-7 The boat is 'Chiltern'. In case you were wondering, the steerer of Chiltern is unlikely to have carried or used a whip to warn of his approach. He might have used a mouth horn, or electric horn. A mouth horn is one you blow through with your mouth. An electric one is where it is connected to an electrical circuit and you press a button to complete the circuit. It makes a noise by magnets vibrating a diaphragm, though some operate compressors that blow air through a trumpet.

Well, here's an on topic subject! Christmas without Supermarkets!

I acknowledge you words Tam, and if you've been told that by a lock keeper in the fifties - fair enough. I've seen many alongside the towpath since we came afloat in '80 (new boy), but thought that Jim Shead's 15 - 20yds was way out. But I'm on the bank right now and can't just nip out and have a look, and memory plays tricks. It just 'feels' wrong that a post could be so close to the lock, and be primarily to prevent overtaking. 10yds as recorded and quoted seems a bit ridiculous, and in that particular instance it sounds like matey behind was after blood! With horse boats too!! I'm genuinely curious now to find out when they were placed and what the official reason was - I know, you've already told us! But I've had tales told me before from certain persons for extra effect - sometimes they've been spot on, and sometimes . . . they've been salted. Andrew, they will be nothing to do with tying up specifically, that 'rule' is more like not to tie up within a boats length of a lock, two preferrably. I don't know what DIScord and DISharmony's about, we're just chewin' some fat and working out what animal it once was. Tam knows it's Beef, and my taste buds haven't got used to meat yet. Too much bloody Quorn. I do like cheese to be cheese. Tom Doubting. PS Nice to see you got a website Andrew - I'll be placing an order.

Interesting selection of comments. The Co-op I remember as a lad was a big department store the CWS, and I distinctly remember Mum saying post 1957 (as Wikipedia has reminded me) that it had changed, and not for the better, partly I think because they dispensed with the 'divi'. Still remember her number given at the till for any purchase - double three eight three two three - imprinted in my mind for ever as I was dragged around the shops pre-school! That Co-op has long gone, and they now seem to be as grasping as any 'Victor Value', Oakenshotts' or 'Happy Shopper' subsequently became. Anyone remember Mac Fisheries? That did for our local supermarket in Wood Green High Road, and only a few doors away (urban, densely populated environment). The loser was 'Jolly's', a little shop that was different from all the rest along our 'Golden Mile' in North London, in that instead of queuing up to be served by the one person, you took a wire basket and 'helped yourselves' shock horror! Then queued up to pay at the one till, so still queued! But Mum only bought her tinned and packeted stuff from there, plenty of butchers (sawdust floor) bakers etc. for the rest, and a good Sainsbury's - meat down one side, butter cheese and eggs the other, and a till at the end. But Mac Fisheries changed all that. Then it became Tesco's, and if you wanted tea or coffee, we went into Lyon's Tea house next to the 'Alec' (The Alexander pub) with maybe a cake, or one of their 'Individual Fruit Pies'. You could buy just about anything in Wood Green, if the High Road didn't have it, the little market stalls off Mayes Road would, from boiled sweets and toffee freshly made on the premises, to bicycles and pushchairs being repaired next door I can smell them now. Lace and tablecloths, and the broken biscuit stall (there was one in Berko still in the seventies, bottom of King's Road). Something no-one has mentioned regarding supermarkets - they cater for the mobile - they demand the motorised shopping car(t). In France, new shops are prevented from opening up in villages due to the 'dangers' from vehicle congestion in the village centres, and have to be placed out on the edge. Then in complete contradiction, they shut the streets off for a weekly market! But it works well, though the villages outside of market days are not so community orientated as they once were, and so it is over here. Supermarkets get the thumbs up from Central Government, as they converge people from miles around which enforces two strategies in one swoop; get folk using more petrol (more tax), and ensuring people become reliant on the car for all other commodities. And for the congestion created - we'll charge you, and stick cameras up to take more if you're in a hurry. It's not safety, it's a business. Where have all the corner shops gone - not just the ones that sold food stuffs, but the haberdashers, the fishmongers, and more noticeably - the little hardware shop that sold exactly what you wanted with someone behind the counter who could advise you best how to use it, or perhaps an alternative solution? Not many of them left, they've all been trounced by the DIY supermarket, who employ shelf packers. Only in rare instances will you find a member of staff who knows his onions, and often it's some old boy who is an ex-engineer - redundant from 30 odd years in manufacturing. Supermarkets are for convenience, seldom for quality - Waitrose excepted, but expect to pay for it. Bulk commodity shifters for economy and profit. Cheap 'own' brand food is often lacking in nutrients as it is force grown, watered down, and possibly with loads of 'food miles' added (not to mention DEFRA approved chemical preservatives - be careful what you put in your mouths!). Street markets are nearly always better quality, and quite often cheaper too, it does mean though, you have some leg work to do, and how much easier it is to park without charge in a supermarket car park. Mum would have liked not having to walk the length of Wood Green High Road with her bag (everyone carried bags - and shopped daily - no fridge!) if she could get it all under one roof and out of the rain, (her Co-op was good for that - warm too) but she would have missed the variety, quality, and her purse may well be more quickly emptied as she perused things she did not go out to buy but had to look through to find what she did want. The big plus for the supermarket - place temptation everywhere - and it will sell. And if people begin to gravitate towards the shelves where they know they will find what the NEED, they change the shop around COMPLETELY, move the biscuits to where the deodorants were, and swop the cheeses for baby stuff. Total confusion, everyone complains, but ends up buying stuff they would otherwise not have done. Our local Morrisons did just that - six months ago, and I still have to hunt for what I want. They'll change it again in another year. I have a shop around the corner, run by Eastern gentlemen. There's little choice, small quantities, high prices, and I don't think the gentlemen have had a bath this year. I cycle less than half a mile to Morrisons, and there's a 'Londis' opposite who seems to do well - open all hours. I could cycle into St Albans town, but it's full of building societies, coffee shops, and expensive clothes shops. The thriving street market held three days a week, has taken hits lately, with overzealous traffic wardens, inflated parking charges, and pedestrianisation of some market area with yet another swanky outdoors seating coffee shop - it's St Albans for heaven's sake - not St Tropez - it's cold! Not worth the effort any more - well, save for the Pasty shop, it's worth the trip for that alone, but Gomm's the tool shop has long gone. No more fork handles. You might say we have got what we deserve, but I think we have got what has been planned for. Derek

One of that series: 'Too Many Boats' by Robert Wilson. A Giles cartoon reprinted from the Daily Express, where a bunch of Bowler hatted ministry men are daubing Grey and Buff paint over the cabin. One is reading from a broadsheet stating 'Order to remove all signs of decoration from barges'. On the tail end of the lorry carrying their paint is scratched: 'Ministry of Utter Gloom'. The Tory colour related to Blue and Gold, Azure Blue 104, and Golden Yellow 356 in the BS 381C series. There were variations however particularly on the blue. The lurid green was I believe an attempt at 'blending in' with the 'green' surroundings and projecting such attitudes in a 'Green' world. A naive thought. The green is disappearing thankfully. Wet behind the ears always springs to my mind at the mention of 'green'. Derek

GPS Global Positioning System Seriously, you're all 'aving a laugh! DIS = Distance one post each side of a lock, equidistant from the lock. First boat to reach it has priority over the lock, and a whip crack was the determining factor. Of course there was cheating, and lots of punch-ups. Overtaking? Never heard that one anywhere, though confess it might have been an 'added' reason. You'd be pretty daft to try it, though Buffalo was apt to, and got stuck in a lock entrance with Pheonix in doing so September 1896. (Buffalo - steam tug 8' wide, Pheonix FMC steamer 7' wide - scroll down to the Millner Letters HERE). Before the posts got knocked about, lost, or buried in weeds, boatmen and women knew exactly where they were, what they were for, and didn't need to read any lettering. Can't believe there are three pages of this! PS Boats are only driven on the BCN, and where GPS meant 'Gerroutheblurryroad!' (On a polite day)

Thanks Alan. Much as expected. Yes, the EH document stated most clearly that the building had historical merit despite its much compromised appearance. Nigel Crowe in an email to me, suggested I contact Alan Johnson of EH to endorse BW's appraisal of the building. I wrote to AJ a week ago, and so far no reply. Derek

Not really, pigs at a trough might describe it better. With reference to development in Docklands, and the projected at Wood Wharf, Blackwall basin that is now open to direct Sunlight, will be denied most, and the funnelling of wind vortices around such tall structures will compromise and deteriorate life afloat. This will equally apply to the residents of the housing on the Northern quarter. Of course there will be objections, and all will be impotent. Aylesbury has had the knowledge that the basin would be developed with a first floor balcony from which the public could look over the boats in the basin. That was seventeen years ago. What has happened since then, is various surrounding areas have been cleared for car parks, leaving the basin visually exposed and neither one thing nor the other to those viewing it from outside. With the immediate area around the basin already compromised with Kingfisher House, The 'Blue Leany' across the road, the loss (was it?) of The Ship, Jackson's bakery, a car park behind a chain link fence instead of a semi secure Electricity depot, and the timber yard, the basin occupants might well think 'can it get much worse?' Maybe it could, but not by much. What are they to object to - the loss of all this demolition of privacy and security? The FMC warehouse is the remaining structure of any note, and like the Carpenters workshop at Marsworth - on death row. A useless object unfit for purpose. When people speak of 'plans', and years roll by with nothing publicly visible on the table, what is it they are to object to? You have to be a Sherlock Holmes to find out just what is going on behind the scenes, and the chances of being heard are poo-poo'd with politically correct Council speak, housing quotas, and balance sheets. All the suspicions invariably lead to unknown amounts of folding stuff exchanging hands that are scrupulously denied, and consultancies producing glossy brochures at huge cost. What Joe Soap mostly gets is a Fete acomplis after the decisions have been made, and a token gesture of 'objections' to be received. All very 'democratic'. So, was anyone at the evening meeting last night, and if so what might there be to report? What alternatives were proposed or have been considered? Or can I guess? Listened to? Dictated to? Or just a bit of 'fun'? Derek PS Bulbourne Yard?

We had a similar experience on the L & L at Gargrave in 1983. Luckily for us the gates did not go through all the way. We had gone in to the full lock and waiting for a hire boat to join us alongside. Our boat touched the top of the bottom gates quite lightly, and the mitre immediately sprung past that of the other gate opening a gap about twelve to fifteen inches tapering down to well below water level. The rush of water from the full lock through this gap dropped the level by six inches in seconds, pulled one top gate firmly closed, and I rushed across the bridge over the tail to shut the other top gate while waving to the hire boaters to stop. The gate slammed shut alright! We locked out tied up and reset the lock, making sure the mitres were squared true to each other. Locked the other boat through and away, while I went off to phone Waterways and tell them of what could have been serious. "Oh, they're often doing that" was the comment. Not a lot else we could do, so carried on. The design, or perhaps the method of building that particular set, was such that there were no supporting baulks of timber at the mitre head to prevent them slipping past each other. Just a touch was all it needed. Gave us a fright. Derek

Good 'ol Pete! I was trying to get back into that film for a better look, but the damn thing would'nt play ball, so chanced my luck. Serves me right eh! Should' have known better - Derek I think I might have been misled a little bit by the Fuller's list, I thought I read Saltley, and 1929 in the same sentence. I haven't checked though. Off to bed!

The shot in the 1924 film shows Columbia which gives the impression of being a wooden boat. But the motor Columbia was built in 1929 at Saltley as an iron composite. Sure you have the right boat? I think you are looking at two different boats. Derek

Quite probably, I was just enquiring if WW had seen the others - anywhere, and posting the links if not. Derek

Is there only two locks where that may have been possible - Cowley and Five Paddle? The other forty odd having water going to the pound. Doesn't look like the Mill owners were getting much out of that deal. No, hang on, you're only bringing one lockfull down with you (theoretically), so that works out 50/50. Never knew that. 'Course, the fifth paddle at Five paddle (if used to empty the lock, assuming it did) would only go back in the pound through the beds at some point. A Simpson moment there. Derek

This was exactly my comment and thought near the beginning of either this or a similar thread. I had thought that converting what was basically a petrol engine to diesel would not be possible due to the forces involved being different. I was wrong, but would consider that the original engine being designed for petrol, suffered weaknesses when being converted to diesel. A diesel engine designed for such from the start, has to be a longer lasting engine. Derek

Magic! Thanks Andrew.

It did - it got onto celluloid, then VHS. No actors in these ones, the real people doing their jobs. You must have seen There go the Boats surely? And Inland Waterways? And from 1960/61 Robert Reid Reports? or Broad Waterways? Anything made by the British Transport Film (BTF) unit are gems. These above are available from Beulah films. There are many more. Derek

I had been told it related to an 'extra' paddle that fed water cress bed, two each end (discounting gate paddles) and a fifth for the beds. True or false I don't know, not going to do much water cress feeding from an empty lock, but it might have been connected to the upper pound. Five Paddle is in some books called Home Park Mill, or just Home Park this is lock 70. Lock 71, sometimes Hunton Chain or Change, or as Tam knows it Geordie's. Why is Bottomside and Topside so called, or Sweeps, Albert's two or Mary's two (the same pair 75 &76). Iron Bridge - what Iron? They all have numbers which define them, but the names they get given are done by the regular users, and often relate to things quite unrelated or seemingly so. Sweeps for example, was there a Chimney Sweep lived by there? Was there a chap who was constantly see sweeping the steps or towpath? The lower of the two is quite often called the 'Riser' as it is overlooked by the pub the Rising Sun, but the next up I often simply call Sam's, because that's where he lives, perhaps there was a lock keeper by the name of Sweep, or a landlord, and so it must be for many like Alberts/Mary's two. It's far more interesting to have names to things than numbers, and those names can change with the generation using the cut. There's a lock on the Leeds & Liverpool called Hell Fields, in what is nowadays (or was in '83) open countryside of tussocky land. But when the industrial revolution was in full swing, that area may well have been the dumping ground for molten slag, and the fiery smoke and sulphurous fumes that emanated from such a place and filled the air must surely have looked like you were entering Hell's fields. Sutton's, an Gas two. We all know why, but youngsters will look around and wonder why today. Long live names, and the sometimes simple, and sometimes convoluted reasons for them - all grist to the mills of history and learning - like babies conceived in tunnels. Derek

I'd heard Lot Mead was commonly known as 'Walker's', as the family used to live there (Walker's of Ricky that is). Now I can't remember if it was Ian told me that or I read it in 'The Amateur Boatwomen' . . . Just checked - it's in the book. Hunton Change is also down as Hunton Chain, but that might be down to mis-spelling through misunderstanding of the spoken word. I do recall bumping into an old boy from the cottage there once who said he was off to play his regular game of darts. It did run down quite badly at one time, but spic and span now - possibly privately owned? And I believe there is indeed a 'John' at Stockers still, certainly was last year, don't know him or his surname though. Sam and Gladys are still at Sweeps last time I heard, about twelve month ago. Derek

Patricia Hayes! That's the name I couldn't get, and I think you are right, I'm getting Hilda Baker mixed up with Rita Webb. The guy playing the Waterways Inspector was one of the criminal gang in the 1960 film starring Jack Hawkins - 'League of Gentlemen' - he was the radio cum bomb expert I think, played by Norman Bird. Not all the cast in Bargee are mentioned in the final credits. I thought the top house had been in private ownership since the late eighties, but only a presumption. The White Lion gets gets used too, Jo comes out after his 29 pints and heads off towards the Aylesbury arm. But where did breakfast get thrown overboard? I thought it was opposite Rose's, but there's a building behind Ronnie in that sequence, and I don't remember a building ever there. Derek Ah! There's the full list - Thanks Stewey. I think another tragedy is the house at the end of Bulbourne Yard - that's been empty a long time.

One question I always wonder about, is how many in the crowd, and those around Maffas top, were boaters? There are some actors there, like Hilda Baker: "We've found 'im!" and the other lady in that duo in the 'discovery' whose name escapes me, but played 'Enebriated Edna' in the nineties. Then there's the boatman getting his receipt at Rose's before Hemel is spoken to - actors? Derek