Derek R.

Well there's a novelty!

I'm guessing Sneyd House was the farmhouse at Sneyd Farm. No pictures, but a map of same in the advertisement for Sneyd Colliery and Brickworks. http://www.thepotteries.org/advert_wk/065.htm Another about life around Sneyd Green: http://www.thepotteries.org/city_limits/017.htm Sneyd Colliery, some pictures but doubt Sneyd House is there: http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/coalface/collieries/sneyd.htm Streetview shows what might be one of the old colliery buildings HERE, (the older building behind the 'Wardle' one) And there's a resemblance to that same building HERE, Nothing else coming up from this search. Edit for spelling.

Thanks Mark.

Bl***y 'ell, comes as a shock when you see someone who could be your twin. The bloke in the red boiler suit standing behind Dick (photo 12.) Fabulous work.

Thanks for sharing the links and photos all. Such little bits of history are all the better for being chewed over and passed down for the future, and for the present to those such as myself who never knew the area.

I look forward to more snippets from Dredgerman, but a bit more 'meat' in them would be nice. Excellent links Graham. PERSEVERANCE is worthy of much attention, but it will need to be prised out of Ellesmere Port first.

Carl is absolutely right. The interest that is clear within the forum members over the whole 'history and heritage' thread is made much the richer for details as are available to those who have acquired them from source. They often come as an 'antidote' to speculation and hearsay, though some of the 'hearsay' is in itself rich when coming from those with first hand knowledge of 'doing', rather than reading or writing. It's the human element that so often enriches and colours a basic canvas. Just have to watch the pigmentation mix at at times.

Blimey - a bit close to Morse code, but there's a picture there. Ruston Bucyrus? I've only handled an RB1 myself.

Pigeon amongst cats. And hopefully to allay Andy’s insanity - see last paragraph. It is said: - "History is always written by the victors" - well, it's certainly written by those who have most to lose or compromised maybe by telling the truth, and another basic: ‘truth is the first casualty of war’. But there should be no war here, nor competition to be the first with anything. But there are some folk who put up websites with the best of intentions, and then fail to update them due to other commitments when things are found to be needing amendment in one way or another. This leads to a conclusion that the origins of what was first written were incorrect, the task of further correcting becomes all consuming and overwhelming. Why? Often it may be found to be a lack of research in the right quarters. But even then, where any history is written down, there is the human element involved – even those writing the detailed records of items or events at the time, can make mistakes either in spelling, or figures which leaves the future historian with several ‘garden paths’ to negotiate. Family trees can be notoriously diverse, and taken from other family members can be rife with errors. Even official records can hold errors especially with occupation and habitation. Birth, death and marriage certificates do not tell the whole tale that is true in every sense. The problem with historic boat websites is - like many books on the history of the World - errors get carried forward because the true research is just too much work to undertake with little or no other reward than to be taken to task by some who will claim through reference to half a dozen other websites or books that contradict what the genuine researcher has come up with. And so he/she keeps quiet, storing the information until someone comes along to carry on their task with a like mind, and maybe a thick or thicker skin. The nearest we can get to truth in any area of research is from those with first hand knowledge by being there, or making an item (better still by it being personal experience), or having in hand original documents, transcripts and experiences. Even then, there will be certain areas of memory fatigue, rose tinted glasses, or straightforward embarrassment over events, not to mention spelling errors and failing to record something for whatever reason and relying on memory alone – the latter leading to ‘tales’ that get embellished with the telling and re-telling. I would take to task the claim that the formerly published history via publishing houses and the like were more accurate in their results, and were indeed the breeding ground of discrimination and the continuation of established thought in any particular arena – warts and all. It is with the ability of the internet as a ‘peoples voice’, that more are questioning the established ‘truths’, and more is being uncovered – some of it dark, but always it seems controversial. I think half the fun of researching is finding out the various stories, and then attempting to get to the bottom of them all. Chinese whispers are guilty of much - it's human nature. Few learn Chinese outside China, and many are the believers of tales. Where does this leave any researcher? Perhaps with the fact that all history is bunkum as is published and told. The only true history is what we are doing here and now today. Tomorrow it will be retold, but seldom exactly how it happened. Nonetheless, it is a fascinating subject and will keep many occupied for a very long time – as will the debating of same. When is a tug not a tug? As a noun (which it isn’t in my dictionary, though often used as one when describing certain craft built and designed solely to move other vessels, and which may or not have some carrying capacity) then such a vessel can reasonably be called a Tug whether it pushes or pulls. As a verb, which it is, it’s when you stop tugging.

Nice to see an example of Waterways blue all over the place, and what looks like Waterways transfers on the doors. Very MURPHY.

I can imagine a set up similar to towing an empty butty on cross straps - but pushing the butty. In which case, the link would not be rigid but flexible. Imagine reversing an articulated lorry and the 'picture' may come clearer. Perhaps the rudder of the butty was unshipped to save damage, I don't know.

Ah! Thank you Laurence and Richard. There is a strange attraction to subterranean passageways: "There is something in a sewer, .... Down below That has a strange allure, ....Down below, The magic of the drain, is a thing you can't explain, But it's calling us again, .... Down below." Written by Sydney Carter, performed by Stanley Holloway. Down Below. Holloway was no Cockney, but I believe a Mancunian by birth.

Where? Used for powering Mills and as an open sewer through Manchester, but the only reference to anything man made entering, is the unfortunate accident costing ten lives when a train carriage plunged into it! Good shot of the culverted confluence with the Irwell.

They would overlap and need chains to keep some semblance of rigidity, hence TYCHO's addition of a dolly on the blade top, a triangle of chain could be made with it and the various studs. Hard to explain, I'm sure Blossom would expand on this. Edited to add: Pushing or pulling, a boat designed or adapted to move other boats around is a working boat whether tugging or pushing - it's a Tug. The debate over dictionary definitions is spurious especially so when the term probably originated in the days of horses and sail - and dictionaries were not the reference source for the working masses. The only cause for calling any tug a 'push-tug' is surely attached to those tugs made for pushing such as the little ones on the cut and those on continental waterways handling trains of barges in thousands of tons. 'Push-tug' might sound like a contradiction in terms, and is an 'informal' description used in better describing the action of moving something. I don't find 'push-tug' in my dictionary, though we all know what they are. You can 'stem' another boat from using the stem of one boat to another, whether the other boat is stem to or stern to. Or broadside on come to that. Just a quicky - not to scale: TYCHO's blade makes the difference, and stemming without may well have been a bit messier, and probably used for short distances unless a certain technique had been learnt and mastered!

The OP's query has had me sifting through the few Birmingham booklets on the shelf, and Black Country Songs and Rhymes by Jon Raven has the only slight clue to preachers. Apparently Methodism had a strong foothold in the Black Country, but divided the Colliers from the opposition such that John Wesley had bodyguards accompanying him on his rounds. Wesleyans having amongst them some of the richer sections of society, set the locals against them which led to the Colliers of Wednesbury causing damage to property along with some serious assault. That was back around the latter 1700's, maybe descendants continued their open air preaching without any damage to property, and somewhere to 'leg it' if the going got 'hot'. Perhaps that's just fancy. But Wesleyan Methodism did have a strong movement in the area, and I wonder if it's likely they may have held open air meetings. The following link is to Wesleyans in Cradley, and one person named A. J. Twiggs is mentioned in acknowledgement in the introduction. Perhaps it is no coincidence that in Jon Raven's booklet (Vol.1) there is parodied in song from Hymnal 574: "I heard the voice of Jesus say - " to: "I heard the voice of Twiggins say, 'come let us work no more. Lay down thy 'ommer and thy tongs and beg from door to door'. I wish I had a rifle tall to point into the sky - I'd never do a stroke of work, but live on pigeon pie . . ." An anti-Wesleyan song as you may have guessed. Were they any good? Here we are: "By 1847 the Wesleyans were organizing open-air preaching during the summer at four places in West Bromwich. (fn. 59) Between 1861 and 1890 John Skidmore, a Wesleyan lay preacher and missioner to the canal boatmen, held open-air services on Sundays from May to August at Middle Lock between Spon Lane and Bromford Lane. (fn. 60) In the early 1840s Wesleyan influence was felt in the collieries. According to a local Wesleyan minister butties belonging to the connexion were free from the dishonesty for which other butties were notorious. At one colliery, through the influence of a Wesleyan ground bailiff, prayers and scripture readings were held during the dinner hour, and there were rules against drinking and swearing. A Wesleyan miner, however, stated that 'pits that have praying companies in them are as few as parish churches'. (fn. 61)" That's 'butties' as in miners. The passage is from : - http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=36167

Was it witnessed? Seriously, preaching at locksides seems to be a bit of a non-starter. The Sally Army are more likely to have been gathering at corners and streets where they would be assured of a decent crowd, or where their presence was of no encumbrance. The latter comes to mind as on our estate in North London they would form a circle in Wellesley Road - a short dead end with a closed factory at the end (Sunday) and twenty eight dwellings, several of whom would come out and listen. After doing their 'piece' there, they would troop around to Spouter's Corner opposite the Nag's Head and repeat the performance. Off topic I know, but we would also get an escapologist do his tricks though mostly on Saturday - bigger crowd. That was before television caught on big time, and the dying remains of the Wood Green Empire were still extant. But having re-read the passage in Arthur's booklet, it is mentioned crowds did in fact gather on the spoil banks to listen. So maybe the Salvation Army were involved, especially if there was a chance to hear some Brass being played. Nothing like a bit of open air music to draw the crowds - certainly truer back in the Twenty's at any rate. Edited to add: Let's not forget Brigadier Fielding and his wife, who between them encouraged a form of education through their boat SALVO, but that came quite a bit later.

Can't help but think of the Salvation Army as a prime suspect! They would gather every Sunday in various places often with a few instruments. But why at the locks? Good question, other than to bring some salvation to a spot between Iron Works, Wagon Works, and West Smethwick Cemetery. I like Arthur's tale on the last page as told by his mate for a whooping cough cure - a ride on a working boat through Dudley Tunnel! "Ask any on um as is bin. It awliz waerked!" A Black Country Society publication, ISBN 0 904015 14 9 (for the record).

It also goes to show, that no matter how 'black' the World seems to be portrayed by the popular press and media machines, people do go out of their way to help one another. It's always the bad aspects of life that are magnified on tabloid and screen, the everyday good stuff is not "Newsworthy".

It's Alan Faulkner's little FMC booklet that carries the photograph of two loaded pairs having been bombed at what is claimed to be New Warwick Wharf on 1st November 1940. Boats shown are claimed to be ROBIN & KILDARE, ROVER & GRACE. Clearly seen is ROBIN's name, and probably ROVER. If KILDARE is the farthest boat it is definitely sunk and with cloths still in place though the front end cannot be seen, but ROBIN & ROVER - being the middle two - have sustained most of the damage. GRACE is mostly covered with debris. Edited to add: The PRESIDENT site seems to show KILDARE as being 6' 11" beam. Was it the bomb? Or shall we blame metrication.

Looks like someone is saying: "You jump - I'll catch you". Must be a Yorkshire woman.

If it was better to blend in to the remaining structure, why not take a handful of muck and dredgings and smear the new with it. It won't smooth the edges, but the mortar will likely take some of the colour of mud, and lessen the harshness. The fact remains - it has been repaired, though having worked with some fine craftsmen in the past I know it is possible to make good without appearing it to be so obvious. Red and white tape! Are they trying to hide the blood stains? For serious industrial vandalism - watch BW at work in our 'Disappearing Heritage' booklet! Available through HNBC.

I didn't realise that, though it's still a way short of County identification as before.

But the Act is (arguably?) not in place. Only Index number, name, and licence are now required to be displayed of pleasure boats. I do think public health registration numbers should be displayed on ex-working boats which still have their back cabins extant, not so sure about those which have been removed. But without any definitive and actionable requirement by the powers that be - it's open season. Few display their vehicle registration as of any such 'place', though until recently one could tell the County of original registration from the last two letters. No longer though. Shame. They've done the same in France.

Perhaps they'll all be changing it to Leeds now . . . .

Welcome Bee, mind you don't get inundated with requests! Right spot for it in the heart of smelting country. (As was).