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I don't need putting right, Beta's oil spec is confusing, probably some hassle from posting a personal Email but here's an opinion from somebody confused by Beta's oil requirement when sourcing oil. From: Utton, Brian [mailto:brian.Edited out.com] Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:00 PM To: Andrew Winton Subject: RE: Beta Marine Hi Andrew The only points I would make are: The first statement would make more sense for me if it said something like “An engine oil meeting API CD, CE or CF…..” This is based on the fact that API CD has lower properties than API CE which in turn is lower than CF, so by saying “minimum properties of CF (CD, CE)”, you’re really saying minimum properties of CD and not putting a maximum on the API performance, opening the door to commercial vehicle oils which are above API CF (e.g. API CG-4 CH-4) which are highly additised and therefore not really ideal for your application. With the changes in ACEA specifications happening now, a lot of the mineral oils on the market will become part-synthetic to meet the improved performance requirements of the new specs. So mineral oils may become more difficult to find. Personally I would expect the new part-synthetic 15W-40 products to be just as suitable as the current mineral products. We currently sell a 15W-40 mineral product called Castrol GTX High Mileage 15W-40. This will become part-synthetic as explained above but we may introduce a basic GTX 15W-40 mineral product to maintain a mineral offer. Whether other companies will take the same approach I can’t say. As discussed, the idea of avoiding additives and fully synthetic oils is reasonable based on the type of light throttle, constant speed use often experienced by marine engines. I hope this helps. If you need anything further, just let me know. Regards. Brian Utton Castrol Limited Technical Manager Automotive Lubricants UK & Ireland Phone: +44 (0)1793 452673 Edited to remove Email address

You still don't get it! I'm not talking about non turbo and turbo oil as a differentiator BETA ARE!

For those who think they understand oil, but know somewhat less, there is no contradiction on the tin CF oil is CF oil. The contradiction is in the Beta manual, they specify an oil that is turbo/non-turbo then state, but don't use turbo oil, don't you get it?

I'm not looking for an oil, I use shire 15w/40 CD, just making the point that the Beta manual is wrong. They specify CF then add, do not use Turbo oils, total contradiction.

As I said in an earlier post Beta (Andrew Winton) insist oil must be 15/40 and non turbo, they specify CF(CD/CE) but CF is a turbo/non turbo spec, the only way to comply with the non turbo requirement is to forget about CF oils and go for CD/CE

Nothing wrong with Morris oil, but last time I looked there was no 15/40 non turbo, some other good oils but not 15/40 so if you want the right grade and sevice spec morris is ruled out.

The only good quality one Ive found that's exactly right is Shire 15/40 api CD and it is expensive, about £23-24 from chandlers. Beta say CF is ok but only non turbo, but since Cf includes turbo oils thats a bit of nonsense since all CF oils say on the tin "turbo and non turbo".

If you do go the inverter/corded chainsaw route I used a bosch 1700 watt for all last winters logs without any problem, still sounds like new, and surprising how well it performs, as powerful as any small petrol saw I've used.

It was never a real go'er was it? It's not just touring dishes that come in "taller than wide" mine is a 60X55cm domestic pole mounted dish, and as said is very tolerant of boat rocking.

As usual on a snails pace signal the text came up and I thought Yuk, then the picture popped up and changed my mind realy nice!

Agreed, if it's all mixed you might save it by giving it a good stir and use a gloss roller and tray a bit in the tray at a time possibly some thinners could help, but try it on a piece of board first.

It depends on your budget, working conditions and your own abilty if its got to be DIY, given the opportunity to start from bare metal I'd forget boat paint or any synthetic and go for 2K acrylic, but you need to be experienced with vehicle spraying, or know somebody who is, and is willing to do it. Whatever paint you choose, you need to be ready to get it primed quickly.

Seconded, people often don't realize how important good insulation is at the build stage, and regret cutting corners later, try to be there when it's done and get then to do the bits they missed under the gunnels before they pack the gear away.

good plan, If you want lacquer to stay on only spray it over base coat and then only over a base coat that gives a proper flash time, if the can says to lacquer after 24 hours, it's going to peel at some stage. If your handy with spray cans - could do a good repair on your car, and want something lasting that resembles brass, look at some of the custom car paint suppliers aerosol ranges something like fools gold tint over silver or pale green metalic base might be close, but keep it off your boat paint, it will react, also don't touch base coat with anything other than a tack cloth for metalic, choose everything from primer to clear from the same range of one brand.

Even most solid colours are base and clear these days, but the base is flat and laquer applied in the right time frame. It can't be compared to the bond of varnish on gloss paint.

The biggest difference is the possibility of runs or sags, in my experience better to thin the paint (with the makers own thinner and up the the recomended ammount) and apply less, even though it might need an extra coat. Its a good plan when you undercoat the boat to undercoat something else, a drum or large can, and use that to test how much top coat can be applied, leave it till its touch dry before deciding its not going to run. As said before, considerable car finishing experience, but only DIY experience with synthetic paint on boats. so note any other members different experience.

A lot of people will spend hours waxing or polishing the boat only to undo their good work by using a strong detergent like washing up liquid when it gets dirty, better to use just clean water or a good wash & wax.

I agree

I'm still using a 3g phone on a USB cable (vodaphone) that I started with before dongles came out, 50p a day there is a data limit but often use 10 times that and didn't get hasled for it yet, so you pay 50p for any day of use, whats the deal on the PAYG dongle?

I don't recall mentioning the price? Shoreline and many other 12v fridge/FREEZERS are designed and sold on one main criteria, low current need. they are fine for short term food storage, at best they maintain -12 and take considerable time to regain that after door opening. they are fine for holiday use where food is stored for a few weeks. they are unsuitable for longer term storage of frozen food! Only freezers with a 3 star rating are suitable for that and only freezers with a 4 star rating are suitable for that and freezing fresh food. as a chef you will have a food hygiene certificate and know that. The 2 star rating is given to freezers that can maintain -12 and can recover that temp within a set time, even then the maximum storage period is 1 month. A freezer not capable of maintaining -12 or recovering to -12 in a set time gets a 1 star rating, suitable for storing ice, not food, some 12v freezers lie in this area even when their spec rightly states they can achieve -12 (eventualy) I run a domestic fridge/freezer with an inverter, the current draw is very likely less than two separate 12v units of similar capacity. More importantly I KNOW the frozen food is properly stored, its not a matter of opinion.

Domestic freezers have to meet standards that tell you how long they will keep food fresh and energy consumption standards, you would be hard pushed to find one less than 4 star and A rated. Leisure freezers (12v) didn't used to, and as far as I know still don't have to comply and are not star marked, many would struggle to meet even the lowest 2 star rating, but there are a few that should achieve -16 (I believe -18c is the 3 and 4 star standard but check that to be sure) As a CCer you probably would prefer to be sure your food is safe than try to save a few amps and the fuel needed to produce them. A domestic (mains) fridge/freezer will be rated to achieve that.

they could put pedals on it as well?

Phil's just too nice, and a very generous thing to say, but I bet he never painted a boat with Homebase own brand? Damn bet somebody's going to say it's great!

Quite funny that the paint you didn't get on with, turns out likely the same as the one I suggested because I get good results from it. What the hell did you do to it Seriously though, a known difference is you used an additive and I use about 10% HMG thinner, Its not the same as white spirit, their spraying thinner is called 2611 and brushing thinner 2612, purely by coincidence and no suggestion otherwise, craftmasters spraying thinner "especialy formulated for spraying craftmaster paint" is called 2612, just a thought but if your local stockist keeps it, you might think it was worth a punt with the paint you have, HMG's is about 15 quid for 5l and craftmasters about £6 for 1l

All contributions on this forum are given with good will, and it's very good of you and Phil to offer support and advice, but nobody stated HMG was better than narrowboat paint, I seem to recall they stated they had never used Narrowboat paint, or any other specific boat paint because it was in their opinion overpriced, and went on to compare two coach enamels they had experience of. Phil played down HMG's role by stating HMG only mixed Craftmaster paint before anybody suggested otherwise, HMG,s press release states a far bigger involvement including developing and manufacturing it. Craftmaster paints could well have properties that your customers like and will continue to buy it. having never used it I have no idea, and while there is an alternative that gives the result I want for something less than half the price I doubt I will be comparing it in a hurry. Being new to this forum, you have yet to find out you can't say white is white without somebody pointing out that in reality it's actualy black, so it's a good place to have a little dig and laugh off the result, so don't let anything said upset you, and a belated welcome.