jetzi
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Posts posted by jetzi
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15 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:
Why not post the link and get some proper focussed advice?
Sure, @alan_fincher guessed correctly - this one: https://www.gumtree.com/p/boats-kayaks-jet-skis/70ft-liveaboard-narrowboat-based-in-london/1304038666
7 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:If it is this one, I don't think Forum members will be able to advise much.
Almost no useful information given, and just one picture!
However I agree, from what I can see, I don't think OP needs to worry about anybody racing to buy it.I wasn't intending to be cagey, I was just wanting to ask the question of value more generally as she is representative of the size of narrowboat we want. As I said, we've made a list of every 70' boat on the market that we could find (19 in all) and we're working our way through them. I'd rather learn what to look for than bother the forum with each of those boats!
We've been to see her and the owners showed us the survey done by MarSurv Elliott Berry Marine Surveys in September 2016. She has apparently had a little overplating done but the survey doesn't describe that. I can answer questions about her if there are any that will help. For what it's worth, we get a good vibe from the sellers, we like them and trust them to tell the truth.
32 minutes ago, David Mack said:Have you looked at Apolloduck.com which is probably the largest online boat ad site? Also boatsandoutboards.co.uk?
Yes, these are the sites I used to compile my list:
- abcboatsales.com
- apolloduck.com
- devizesmarina.com
- boatsandoutboards.co.uk
- ebay.co.uk
- gumtree.com
- whiltonmarina.co.uk
1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:Why is a second hand Rolls Royce more than a second hand Lada?
Sure - but conversely you don't normally ask or care who built a house when looking for a new brick and mortar home. Narrowboats seem to be somewhere between a car and a house in these matters!
26 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:However I don't think any of this list will be particularly relevant to the OP, who says their budget is definitely less than £37K for a full length boat.
Can you (or someone) suggest decent builders in the mid price range? We definitely have 30K, there is a small chance we could push beyond that if we can borrow some money from family.
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2 minutes ago, David Mack said:
Are you only looking in London? Boats are generally cheaper further north
We've only looked at boats in London so far, and one on the Norfolk Broads, but that's just a logistical thing. We hope to hire a car and head to the midlands to look at boats next weekend.
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1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:
I'd say a well-looked-after 1978 boat is worth no less than a well-looked-after 1988 boat.
That is my impression from the boats I've looked at, as well. Once the boat is more than 20 years old there doesn't seem to be any correlation between age and price at all!
A lot of forum members have suggested we could get a decent boat at the 30K mark but I'm wondering if the market may have moved on a bit. I've made a list of all the older 68-70 foot boats I could find on the internet right now at the main brokerages, eBay and Gumtree along with their years and prices... for those interested this is what I came up with:- Nineteen 68 to 70 foot boats on the market
- Oldest is 1975, newest is 1992 and average 1986
- Cheapest is 22K, dearest is 50K and average 36K
The condition varies a lot and the ones below 30K are not generally liveable as-is. This kind of suggests to me that we're going to need to spend over 30K to get a decent boat.
1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:I'd agree with this but there is one exception. A probate sale.
Getting a cheaper boat this way sounds really appealing, but what with the market being as small as it is, it seems unlikely to me we'll achieve that in the next 3 months or so.
1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:A poor 1978 Springer is clearly unlikely to be worth £20K, whereas a nice 1978 Les Allen or similar could easily be worth more than £40K.
AHA!! Sounds to me like the answer to my question about what are the important factors. The boat builder! How do you know what are the better makes? Why does it make such a difference?
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We're looking at buying a 70 foot liveaboard narrowboat. We have looked at a few and there is one so far in particular we like - a trad built in 1978.
We're struggling to figure out what would be a reasonable offer though. We'll definitely pay for a professional valuation when we take the plunge, but we'd like some idea of whether or not we can afford her and whether or not it will be within a reasonable range of the asking price before we do so.
Plugging in those numbers into this valuation site - http://www.rightnarrowboat.com/Valuation.aspx - gives us a value of only 20 grand. The asking price is 37 but we'll definitely be offering lower than that (we can't afford 37 in any case...)
She looks in good nick and has been recently blacked and had new anodes. Engine sounds great and she has a decent solar system. I feel confident that she wouldn't need any major work for a year or two. The interior is average, but in my view the structural and mechanical condition should count for a lot more. I know that these things do matter - but is there a "base price" or a "book price" for a narrowboat based on size, age and style?
Seems to me that boat age doesn't matter nearly as much as it does for a car, for example. So it's not so easy to say she'll depreciate at 10% per year as @Mike the Boilerman on this thread suggests:
Generally speaking, what factors should we be looking at when it comes to valuing a narrowboat? Anyone want to take a stab at giving us a value?
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1 minute ago, Rickent said:
As others have said 30k is plenty to get a boat with a decent hull.
Even a 70 foot narrowboat? Asking prices seem to be quite a bit higher than 30K - perhaps it's because we are in London? (only looking at boats without moorings) -
On 10/12/2009 at 05:41, luctor et emergo said:
I will make getting a manual a priority.
Really old thread but was wondering if you ended up getting this boat and if you ever found a manual or more information for this engine?
The boat we're interested in has a Lister SR 3 and is beautiful from the outside. Runs and sounds fantastic too.Some glowing reviews above. My worry is that as an older engine (60s/70s) it might be tricky to find parts for it or mechanics familiar with it. Especially if it is a little obscure.
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I created a poll here just to try it out. If you've commented on this post please go and cast your ballot!
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Lots of discussion here...
Thought we'd try out the Poll feature of the forum and get a little crazy!
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There are lots of really helpful data sources here everyone, thanks a lot. We don't really have anywhere in particular that we want to go, we were thinking if we are able to cover more than 60-70% of the network that should keep us busy for the next 4 or 5 years. Although I have to agree with @rgreg that the winding canals with tight locks - i.e. some of the bits that we'd be missing out on - do seem like they would be the most interesting (such as the Ribble Link, Leeds and Liverpool).
I took the link that @Dinz provided and "greyed out" all the canals that were listed as being under 70 foot in the other link that @reg provided. I excluded the Thorne lock discrepancy that @mrsmelly pointed out and also the Droitwich canal limitation (I can't figure out where that is). I ended up with the following map which is obviously very rough but it gives me a picture of how limited we'll be in a 70 foot boat - and the answer is not very!
Thanks for all the advice around the comfort of a boat being a lot to do with the design and how well you use the space. I understand that but it stands to reason that a well-laid-out 70' boat is going to be bigger than a well-laid-out 57'. I didn't think it would make much of a difference but having viewed both we do feel that the 70' is going to me much more comfortable and better for our marriage (especially as recovering land lubbers!)
20 hours ago, mrsmelly said:In a nutshell. BUY A 70 FOOTER
Thanks @mrsmelly, I think this is the straightforward advice we need!
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Clearly a difference in opinion here - 3 of you say well-done overplating is OK (not ideal) and 4 say they would avoid. Loads of good information - thanks @BEngo especially for the details and for explaining about replating - Good to know that she can have the steel cut out and replaced should our ship ever come in! (pun intended)
Our budget is 30 000 GBP and in that low-ish price range we seem to be seeing quite a few boats with overplating.
Our favourite boat so far has had a survey just shy of 2 years ago which the owners sent to us. She has sides and base plate readings of betwen 4.8mm and 6mm so I assume the original thickness was 6mm. Average is 5.3. However, the owners said she's had some overplating work done, and that is my biggest reservation about her. I'll have to check up on insurance for her before we make any decisions - we definitely want comprehensive because for us we'll be sinking a lot of money into this boat (pun also intended... promise I'll stop soon)50 minutes ago, pete harrison said:I thought it was 4mm but different insurance companies will undoubtedly have different requirements
Now that you mention it, I think it was actually 4mm. I'll have to check my sources on that and get back to you. I'll do some shopping around and report back.
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We're looking at buying a narrowboat, and the older ones often have overplating work done. To my inexperienced mind that sounds like a terrible thing! I would think that a boat would be designed to a certain specification and having a bunch of extra metal welded onto it would cause a lot of trouble - such as sitting lower in the water, using more fuel, etc. I would also imagine that new metal welded to old metal wouldn't be as strong as original metal of the same total thickness. I'm wondering if there are any downsides to having overplating done. There may be no choice - apparently a boat must have 6mm of thickness all round under the waterline to be insurable. Is this true?
Is a boat with 8mm of non-overplated thickness as good as a boat with an original hull worn down to 4mm and had 4mm overplating welded on top? Am I being too choosy - would you buy such a boat? It seems like the age of a boat doesn't seem to affect the price of it nearly as much as say a car. A 2005 boat and a 1985 boat can be comparable in price, even if the 1985 boat has been overplated!! Is there an easy explanation for this?
Thanks for the advice! -
We're buying a liveaboard narrowboat and we're torn between buying a 57' (with the freedom to go anywhere but the Little Ouse to Brandon) and a 70' (with all of the extra living space she provides). It seems that whether a 70' is a curse or a blessing really depends on whether the seller is advertising a 57' or a 70'!
We will be spending many long days on the boat as we both work from home (boat). So we really want the maximum length we can. However, our dream is to explore as much of the waterways as possible and we'd hate to be limited by our vessel.This page at ABNB boat brokerage seems like an excellent resource which lists canals by name and maximum boat length. This is great - but we have no idea where most of these places are or how much of the canal network they represent. Without planning out our route for the next 5 years I'm not sure how much we'd be missing out on by buying a larger boat!
Is there some kind of map that shows canals by boat length?OpenCanalMap seems good but doesn't really answer my question. I feel like with a bit of work I could query OpenStreetMap to get answers, but not sure how complete it is. The excellent map from the Inland Waterways Association doesn't unfortunately show boat size restrictions. If what I want doesn't exist - would anyone find it useful if I tried to create a map like this?
Are there any other useful canal maps I should be aware of? -
We're looking at buying a narrowboat (either a 57' or a 70'). She will be the largest purchase we'll ever make and the potential for things to go wrong is obviously pretty high - houses don't usually sink! I've also heard for example that the hull thickness must be at least 6mm for the boat to be insured - uninsurability would be a dealbreaker.
I'm given to understand that it's usual for a buyer to pay to have a complete, out-of-water, pre-purchase survey done on the boat before handing over the money. This raises a LOT of questions for me! I'm hoping that someone with experience in buying a narrowboat and having a pre-purchase survey done can explain the procedure and etiquette to me.Say I've found a narrowboat on Gumtree, last survey 2+ years ago, whose owners are currently living on her, and we've agreed on a price conditional on a survey.
1. Does the buyer or the seller usually arrange the survey, choose a surveyor, and a survey location/time?2. Does the buyer pay the surveyor directly?
3. Does the seller transport the boat to the location and will they move off the boat while the boat lifted out of the water and is being surveyed?
4. If problems are found (and a few surely will be) would it be usual to re-negotiate the price? Meet halfway on the costs?
5. What if someone else is interested in the boat and (say) are willing to buy her without having a survey done? Will they be able to undercut us or put in an offer?
6. What if we can't agree on a price after having done the survey? It seems I'm in a position here where I've lost the money I spent on the survey. Will the next potential buyer get the benefit of my survey without having to pay for it?7. If we do buy the boat and say it needs some work - blacking or (God forbid) overplating - would we have this done there and then at the place of survey (save on costs)?
8. Would the process differ if we buy from a marina rather than a private seller?
I know these questions are all kind of situational and would probably be part of the negotiation between buyer and seller. If there is a "general" or "usual" procedure to follow though, I'd like to hear about it so I don't insult the seller with my hesitation. I'd at least like to hear some anecdotes from people who have been through the process of surveying a boat they don't yet own. Thanks!
How to value a boat...?
in General Boating
Posted
Awesome, where did you get that record look up data from?
The roof is steel. Is it unusual that it's flat? The owners don't know all the history but they said they believe it might be a converted tug?
Yes there is a solid bulkhead in the bedroom, it's the only boat we've seen that doesn't have an exit on the rear end of the boat. There is an engine room behind that bulkhead. I didn't ask about BSS (boat safety certificate?) - it makes sense that it could be a safety concern...
The hull thicknesses range from 4.8mm to 6mm with an average of 5.3mm. The seller said the previous owner had some overplating done but the survey was done about the same time they bought the boat. So I'm actually wondering if the seller is mistaken about the overplating as it doesn't appear in the (comprehensive) survey. The survey did kick up some recommendations which the seller says have been addressed, most notably some cracked welds and a hole or two that have been filled in. And blacking early last year.
Not sure if I'll be able to find answers to the other questions - "what steel specs were used orginally" and "who was Don Pride"!
Post 14! Sorry, so the list we have of decent mid-range manufacturers sits at: