Trojan/US Battery's, What next?

[nipper]

So, suppose I have bought my 4 Trojan105's or my US 2200's, what else do I have to do to my Victron Phoenix Combi 12/1600/75 to ensure I am charging them up correctly?

Looking on both of their sites, they seem to talk slightly differently which only leads to confusion in my old brain.

US Battery's talk about Bulk Charge, Absorption Charge and Finnish Charge.

Trojans talk about Daily Charge, Float and Equalize.

My Phoenix Combi indicates Boost, Equalize and Float.

And I know as soon as I take off the Comb's face panel I'm going to be even more confused.

http://www.usbattery.com/usb_images/usb_2200_data_sheet_2013e.pdf

 

Trojan linky thing

 

Is there simple instructions, anywhere, that my simple soul can read, and understand, so as he can click the right switches in the Combi?

Oh! This might be useful information for those who have got this far into this rambling post!
Taken from my manual for phoenix Combi 12/1600/75 Charger output.

Equalize charging Voltage 14.25 Vdc
Float ... ... 13.25 Vdc
Output Voltage range 12-15 Vdc

Lots more info available should it be wanted.

 

Sorry to ramble

 

Nipper

Edited November 13, 2013 by nipper

[smileypete]

Charging instructions for US Battery are on the PDF download link on this page, have a look at 'Two Stage charging':

 

http://www.usbattery.com/usb_faqs.html

 

Basically for a 12V bank it's charge at 14.7V, equalise at 15.3V, float at 13V, all plus or minus 0.3V.

 

The reason they call it 'Two Stage charging' not three stage is that once the batt is fully charged the float 'charge' doesn't actually charge the batt, just maintains it.

 

For off grid liveaboards with limited daily charging there may be a need to do more frequent equalisation especially in winter say every 2 weeks.

 

If the charger doesn't do temperature compensation then it may be helpful to tweak the charge voltages down in high summer and up in winter.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited November 13, 2013 by smileypete

[nicknorman]

I had a quick look at what is hopefully the right manual. Yes, its a bit confusing because what we would call Absorption, they call Equalise! Anyway, you need to follow the instructions to set what they call the float voltage to 13v, and what they call equalise voltage to 14.7v. You will have to temperature -compensate those values since the charger does do temperature compensation (see the graph in the manual) and make sure you follow the instructions regarding the batteries being fully charged before you do the adjustments.

 

ETA it doesn't look like your device does what we would call equalisation. It would therefore be worth doing this manually once a month (though probably not if you are permanently on shore power). Once fully charged you will just have to slowly wind up the voltage using the potentiometer until it gets to 15.3, keeping the current below say 10-15A. After about an hour at 15.3v return the potentiometer to its previous setting (14.7v).

Edited November 13, 2013 by nicknorman

[BEngo]

So, suppose I have bought my 4 Trojan105's or my US 2200's, what else do I have to do to my Victron Phoenix Combi 12/1600/75 to ensure I am charging them up correctly?

 

Looking on both of their sites, they seem to talk slightly differently which only leads to confusion in my old brain.

 

US Battery's talk about Bulk Charge, Absorption Charge and Finnish Charge.

 

Trojans talk about Daily Charge, Float and Equalize.

 

My Phoenix Combi indicates Boost, Equalize and Float.

 

And I know as soon as I take off the Comb's face panel I'm going to be even more confused.

 

http://www.usbattery.com/usb_images/usb_2200_data_sheet_2013e.pdf

 

Trojan linky thing

 

Is there simple instructions, anywhere, that my simple soul can read, and understand, so as he can click the right switches in the Combi?

 

Oh! This might be useful information for those who have got this far into this rambling post!

Taken from my manual for phoenix Combi 12/1600/75 Charger output.

 

Equalize charging Voltage 14.25 Vdc

Float ... ... 13.25 Vdc

Output Voltage range 12-15 Vdc

Lots more info available should it be wanted.

 

Sorry to ramble

 

Nipper

Crudely:

 

Modern battery chargers tend to have 3, not very clearly defined stages, of activity:

 

Bulk charge where the battery charger output is limited by the battery charger to its maximum output. During this part of the charge the battery terminal voltage will rise steadily to a point where the battery voltage is as high as the maximum output voltage the battery charger is designed to allow. This is sometimes user variable to allow for different battery types. The battery charger then switches to constant voltage charging.

 

Constant voltage charging is called absorption stage and goes on until the battery charger thinks the battery is full. This is either because the output current has reached a fixed level or because a certain period of time has passed since the battery charger got to max voltage.

 

The battery charger then switches to a lower voltage output- and sits there indefinitely holding the terminal voltage at whatever the set float voltage is. During this stage, good chargers will recognise if the battery voltage falls below another set point ( a big load is applied for example and switch back to absorption voltage or even bulk charging.

 

True equalisation is a higher voltage charge which is needed occasionally to ensure that all the cells are equally and fully charged and to reduce sulphation. This should go on until all the cells are gassing freely and the cell voltages are at the top end of their expected range. It uses a lot of water. Sealed batteries do not like this at all and low maintenance ones may not easily be able to be topped up.

 

As far as the terms you have come across:

 

US batteries match the above but finish charge =float

 

For Trojans Daily charge is Bulk and absorption ( if you go on long enough but many boaters never get to the end of absorption),Float=float above.

 

For your combi I haam not sure- 14.25 might well be absorption ( Bulk is not a fixed voltage)- it's not a true equalisation voltage for a lead acid cell which will be somewhere between 14.8 and 16.0 V depending on the battery. Float is Float.

 

 

N

[dmr]

Crudely:

 

Modern battery chargers tend to have 3, not very clearly defined stages, of activity:

 

Bulk charge where the battery charger output is limited by the battery charger to its maximum output. During this part of the charge the battery terminal voltage will rise steadily to a point where the battery voltage is as high as the maximum output voltage the battery charger is designed to allow. This is sometimes user variable to allow for different battery types. The battery charger then switches to constant voltage charging.

 

Constant voltage charging is called absorption stage and goes on until the battery charger thinks the battery is full. This is either because the output current has reached a fixed level or because a certain period of time has passed since the battery charger got to max voltage.

 

The battery charger then switches to a lower voltage output- and sits there indefinitely holding the terminal voltage at whatever the set float voltage is. During this stage, good chargers will recognise if the battery voltage falls below another set point ( a big load is applied for example and switch back to absorption voltage or even bulk charging.

 

True equalisation is a higher voltage charge which is needed occasionally to ensure that all the cells are equally and fully charged and to reduce sulphation. This should go on until all the cells are gassing freely and the cell voltages are at the top end of their expected range. It uses a lot of water. Sealed batteries do not like this at all and low maintenance ones may not easily be able to be topped up.

 

As far as the terms you have come across:

 

US batteries match the above but finish charge =float

 

For Trojans Daily charge is Bulk and absorption ( if you go on long enough but many boaters never get to the end of absorption),Float=float above.

 

For your combi I haam not sure- 14.25 might well be absorption ( Bulk is not a fixed voltage)- it's not a true equalisation voltage for a lead acid cell which will be somewhere between 14.8 and 16.0 V depending on the battery. Float is Float.

 

 

N

 

interestingly the Trojan user guide shows a curve for ideal charging and this is a different/unusual 3 stage affair. A bulk charge, an absorption charge at a lower voltage than usual, then a final short higher voltage charge to finish off.

 

We've got a cheap and cheerful Sterling charger for those rare occasions when we have shorepower. Its got a little LCD display and I note that when first turned on it does a short "equalise" BEFORE its starts its bulk charge, so Mr Sterling has a very different concept of equalisation to the rest of us.

 

........Dave.

[nipper]

Thanks Folks,

 

I think I can understand, especially now I have found out what a "potentiometer" is!

 

I've just, this minute, got back from my Autumn Cruise and I'll have some time in the next few days to open the Combi up and, with manual in hand, take a good long look at whats inside!

 

No doubt I shall be back with more questions, before i take delivery of whatever battery I decide to go with!

 

Nipper