Duchess of Atholl

[AMModels]

Anyone have any information on her? A previous owners child has contacted me to ask about her present whereabouts so thought I would ask the oracles.

[Hairy-Neil]

Anyone have any information on her? A previous owners child has contacted me to ask about her present whereabouts so thought I would ask the oracles.

 

I've plenty on her movements through Braunston circa. 1962 - 65.

[AMModels]

hehehehe I think that might be more information than even they are after. In fact just looked at the email again and its not a former owner but someone whos family used to work her as a Wyvern boat.

[Hairy-Neil]

I know the whereabouts of the 1959 - 1961 book as well....

[Keeping Up]

If I'm thinking of the right boat, I think she was cut into two halves, each of which was made into a complete boat. I know Wyvern hired her out - or maybe hired half of her out - I would imagine Alan Fincher will remember something about it.

 

I've got a feeling that both halves kept the same name for a while. I think we've met at least one of them in the last few years but I can't remember where or when.

 

Have you tried asking James or John at Wyvern?

[alan_fincher]

I would imagine Alan Fincher will remember something about it.

No,

 

Unfortunately I know little about the 1950s/1960s Wyvern boats.

 

But have you seen this web page.....

 

http://www.grand-union-canal.co.uk/grandunioncanal.shtml

 

Not a lot of detail, and the pictures are far too small, but it does confirm Allan's suggestion that Duchess of Atholl became two boats.

 

Possibly the Griffins might let you have more information and/or better pictures.

 

The fate of the boats is not given, though.

 

To me Duchess of Atholl means one of Sir William Stanier's superb express steam lomomotives for the LMS Railway. Although officially called "Princess Coronations", we always used to know them as Duchesses, as so many of the class were so named. Three 'Princess Coronations' did survive the cutter's torch, or which two are Duchesses, (Duchess of Sutherland and Duchess of Hamilton). I believe both of the Duchesses only survived because Butlins bought them to put in kids playgrounds at their holiday camps, so as little boys and girls, (and big mums and dads) could pretend to be engine drivers. Thank you Butlins!

[sociable_hermit]

 

And the other one is City of Birmingham (I think??) in the museum of Science and Industry there (Birmingham, that is).

 

Doesn't sound half as romantic, does it? "City of Birmingham" vs. "Duchess of Hamilton"...

 

I must admit when I first saw this thread I was thinking, I'm sure Duchess of Atholl went to somewhere like Cashmore's in 1960 something.

[AMModels]

Thanks Al(l)an(s) thats fascinating, and the website confirms what Allan said about her being cut in half, I will contact the company and see if they have any ideas of the whereabouts of either end.

 

Cheers

[Paul H]

Thanks Al(l)an(s) thats fascinating, and the website confirms what Allan said about her being cut in half, I will contact the company and see if they have any ideas of the whereabouts of either end.

 

Cheers

 

I think in the 80s it (or one end) was replanked by Ian Riley at Runcorn - it was advertised for sale in Waterways World. As it doesn't appear on Jim Shead's site it may have slipped back into dereliction.

 

Paul

[carlt]

The stern half was called Lady Flora.

 

Edited to say: Not on Jim Shead either.

Edited December 16, 2008 by carlt

[Hairy-Neil]

 

And the other one is City of Birmingham (I think??) in the museum of Science and Industry there (Birmingham, that is).

 

 

Correct on the name City of Birmingham, however the Birmingham Museum of Science and Industry closed down in 1997 and 'City of Birmingham' is now at The Thinktank. Part of the Millenium Point complex.

[carlt]

She was chopped in two by Walkers Bros in 1959.

[AMModels]

Received this by email in response to passing on the details garnered so far, I asked about the reasons for the enquiry and seeing this thought there'd be someone who might remember the Taylors as they worked for Barlows around Sutton's for years on short haul traffic to the light IIRC

 

 

My Grandparents were called Benjamin and Sarah Johnson. Nan's Grandad was Joseph Taylor who owned 4 boats and was known as ' Four Boat Joey'. The only information about nans parents is they were called Charles and Sara Taylor. Sadly they seperated/divorced and I can't find any infromation out about them at all.

 

I know they worked for the Wyvern Shipping Co for 6 months and the D of A was one of the boats they worked, I have a magazine article with a picture of Nan at the helm.

 

 

Got this from James at Wyvern thanks for the pointer guys.

 

 

Duchess of Athol as far as I know was built by Nursers of Braunston in 1931 for John Greeves who worked the boat on the Macclesfield canal till 1953 when she was bought by Wyvern Shipping for £400. She was cut in half making two 35 ft boats in 1958. The stern half being called Lady Flora and the stern of the original boat making a very good bow for Lady Flora. Cutting the boats in half with square sterns was not a great success so a new stern was added to Duchess of Athol at Braunston in 1961 and a new stern for Lady Flora by Walkers of Rickmansworth in 1961 making the boats 40 ft.

 

They ran in the Wyvern fleet till about 1970 and then were sold. The last we herd was that Duchess of Athol was looking very rough some where on the Southern Oxford canal about 4 years ago. We do not know about Lady Flora.

Edited December 17, 2008 by AMModels

[carlt]

From the Walkers of Ricky book:

 

August 1958/January 1959 - Conversion of narrow boat to two cruisers.

 

April/May 1961 - (Duchess of Atholl) Converting butty to motor boat

 

November 1962 - (Duchess of Atholl) Repairs to narrow boat.

 

 

 

This website has pictures of Duchess of Atholl, before she was chopped

 

Clicky

 

It has her belonging to John Green, though, close enough to be the same one, though.

[AndyPot]

I have an old wooden narrowboat called Duchess of Atholl and wonder if this is the same one. My wife brought it on a mooring at Lisson Grove on the Regents Canal in London in 1998. She was told that it had been chopped many years previously, but the surveyor thought it had been almost completely rebuilt in the late 1980's. It is around 38 feet, with a small back cabin, engine room with 2 cylinder Petter, small galley and the rest of the boat is open. In the mid 90's we moved the boat to Rickmansworth and it is now a long term restoration project, it's a pretty little boat but looking a bit sad now. Unfortunately the list of jobs seems endless and I sometimes wonder if it will ever be finished....

[carlt]

I have an old wooden narrowboat called Duchess of Atholl and wonder if this is the same one. My wife brought it on a mooring at Lisson Grove on the Regents Canal in London in 1998. She was told that it had been chopped many years previously, but the surveyor thought it had been almost completely rebuilt in the late 1980's. It is around 38 feet, with a small back cabin, engine room with 2 cylinder Petter, small galley and the rest of the boat is open. In the mid 90's we moved the boat to Rickmansworth and it is now a long term restoration project, it's a pretty little boat but looking a bit sad now. Unfortunately the list of jobs seems endless and I sometimes wonder if it will ever be finished....

Could be.

 

Photos would be most enthusiastically studied.

[Derek R.]

Could be.

 

Photos would be most enthusiastically studied.

 

Yes indeed, at around 38' a wooden narrowboat is less likely to suffer the hogging full length ones do, and a very handy size. It would be a pity of you had to throw the towel in Andy, AND a two pot Petter - which one? The 18hp that looks like a chip fryer (PD2M), or something smaller?

 

Don't run away with the idea that boats get 'finished' - that never happens (unless they are sunk irretrievably!)

 

Derek

[alan_fincher]

I have an old wooden narrowboat called Duchess of Atholl and wonder if this is the same one. My wife brought it on a mooring at Lisson Grove on the Regents Canal in London in 1998. She was told that it had been chopped many years previously, but the surveyor thought it had been almost completely rebuilt in the late 1980's. It is around 38 feet, with a small back cabin, engine room with 2 cylinder Petter, small galley and the rest of the boat is open. In the mid 90's we moved the boat to Rickmansworth and it is now a long term restoration project, it's a pretty little boat but looking a bit sad now. Unfortunately the list of jobs seems endless and I sometimes wonder if it will ever be finished....

Andy slightly intrigued you moved it to Ricky in the mid 90s, but didn't buy it until 1998 ! I guess one of the dates is a typo ?

 

Do you know which Petter engine it is, please ? If not, is it air or water cooled ? (Never heard a PD2 described as like a chip fryer by the way, Derek!).

 

I'm sure we'd all like to see some pictures.

 

Best wishes,

 

Alan

[Derek R.]

(Never heard a PD2 described as like a chip fryer by the way, Derek!).

 

Good Lord yes - so I am reliably told. Got their name from the curved cowling over the injectors and intake fan - just like the curved covers of the fryers in chip shops which all boatmen were familiar with - and still are of course!

 

Chip fryer:

 

And the trunking took the hot fat fumes out through the roof.

 

Derek

Edited March 8, 2009 by Derek R.

[carlt]

A natural engine choice for Biofuel enthusiasts, then!

[alan_fincher]

That's not a PD2, (emphasis on "2") !

 

Is that a Parsons box it's mated to ?

[carlt]

Is that a Parsons box it's mated to ?

It certainly looks like one.

[Derek R.]

That's not a PD2, (emphasis on "2") !

 

Is that a Parsons box it's mated to ?

I said it was a "chip fryer!" Not a PD2 - Nerrr! (Vinegar bottle just out of sight).

Just a PD2 with another pot on the end and everything that goes with that third pot. 3.3l 30hp @ 1500rpm.

They did a four, I think a V6, and V8 if I recall, all air cooled.

 

Parsons 'F' box. With which I am most intimate. Not an experience to be repeated (I hope).

Got that out, along the staging and into the van on my Jack too, with a little help from a Tonka Toy.

Most satisfactory.

Edited March 8, 2009 by Derek R.

[alan_fincher]

Yep,

 

We had the pleasure of a Parsons type 'F', mated to a Perkins P3.

 

When it packed up on a trip in the 1970s it cost rather a lot of money to have Union Canal carriers bring it back to life.

 

Probably bullet-proof if you treat them right, but our one hadn't been installed in a sensible way...

 

When did she acquire her PD3, please, Derek.

 

Alan

 

BTW I have just found a negative of Renton with a different style of icebreaker nose. Will try and post if, if I can remember how best to scan in negatives.

 

Also what look to be more negs of Tycho's sister, Sickle, but without snout.

[Derek R.]

Yep,

We had the pleasure of a Parsons type 'F', mated to a Perkins P3.

When it packed up on a trip in the 1970s it cost rather a lot of money to have Union Canal carriers bring it back to life.

Probably bullet-proof if you treat them right, but our one hadn't been installed in a sensible way...

 

When did she acquire her PD3, please, Derek.

 

Alan

 

BTW I have just found a negative of Renton with a different style of icebreaker nose. Will try and post if, if I can remember how best to scan in negatives.

 

Also what look to be more negs of Tycho's sister, Sickle, but without snout.

 

A full overhaul of an 'F' box might set you back just over two grand today. But they're strong, designed to take 200hp I'm told.

 

Tycho's Petter went in at Saltley in December 1958. The previous engine was a Russel Newbery 2DM No. 3217, but there's another RN number on the card too - 3269 which has been crossed out. Replacement, or wrongly typed I don't know.

 

Wonderful shots of Sickle & Renton - I know who'll want them!!

 

Derek