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Heffalump

Liveaboard diesel usage

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Just now, Heffalump said:

£1 is 45 mins to 1 hour based on a pound a litre, by my workings out :)

agreed. £1.00 per engine hour, so I expect to travel 3 miles per £1.00

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Just now, rusty69 said:

Thats engine running time, not the same as travelling time, unless you switch off at every lock/landing stage/swing bridge. 

Yes, which is all I'm really interested in :)

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

agreed. £1.00 per engine hour, so I expect to travel 3 miles per £1.00

You'll be using more fuel than that when underway. If you cruise along at £1 an hour fuel usage you'll probably manage a mile in an hour, but if you want 3mph you'll need to use more fuel in that hour 

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10 minutes ago, Heffalump said:

Yes, which is all I'm really interested in :)

You'll be using more fuel than that when underway. If you cruise along at £1 an hour fuel usage you'll probably manage a mile in an hour, but if you want 3mph you'll need to use more fuel in that hour 

but I wont be underway all the time, one has to warm up the engine, say 20 mins, then set off, toottle about, stop for a coffee, and a wander [idle], rush to pub for opening time [do they still have that in England]. Siesta., fire up engine for a couple of hours, find a mooring, fire up the BBQ, have a beer with other boaters. 

sleep, wake up, listen to dawn chorus. Repeat, next day, or next week.

Edited by LadyG

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Just now, LadyG said:

but I wont be underway all the time, one has to warm up the engine, say 20 mins, then set off, toottle about, stop for a coffee, and a wander [idle], rush to pub for opening time [do they still have that in England]. Siesta., fire up engine for a couple of hours later, find a mooring, fire up the BBQ, have a beer with other boaters. 

sleep, wake up, listen to dawn chorus.

What you've just said is a good 3 hours of engine time, plus more if you're cruising more than a couple of miles. 

Not quite £1 a day then

  • Greenie 1

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Just now, Heffalump said:

What you've just said is a good 3 hours of engine time, plus more if you're cruising more than a couple of miles. 

Not quite £1 a day then

But that is on days when I move, I probably won t move more than one day a week

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12 minutes ago, LadyG said:

But that is on days when I move, I probably won t move more than one day a week

Ah that makes a bit more sense! :) yes in that case for your other days stealing electrickery from the pub and just charging for an hour to replace a few LED bulbs worth we can agree! I'll definitely be using a lot more than you!

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1 minute ago, Heffalump said:

Ah that makes a bit more sense! :) yes in that case for your other days stealing electrickery from the pub and just charging for an hour to replace a few LED bulbs worth we can agree! I'll definitely be using a lot more than you!

Greeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeatttttt

PS, I won't steal electricity from pub, they offer  free leccy for laptops these days, I will ask permission rather than get the cold shoulder treatment.

Edited by LadyG

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9 minutes ago, LadyG said:

oops

and I  am budgeting £30 min, , big difference.

You need to realize there is a big difference in how we all live on our boats and the amount of electricity we use.  One person or two I don't think would make a huge difference really, you'll still want to do a load of washing at least once a week, you'll still need to have a light on to read (unless your planning on using oil lamps only), you'll still need to charge whatever gagets you have onboard whether it be a phone, tablet or laptop and so on, even if you aren't planning on having a tv, but if you're planning on watching dvd's I guess you will indeed need a tv to watch them on and it will use electricity all of which take power from your battery bank which will need to have the engine run to top them back up.

I'm not saying that it absoutly couldn't be done on £300 worth of fuel per year, but it sure would be a very meager & restricted lifestyle in my opinion.

Due to my recent health issues, we haven't traveled more than about 60 -70 miles per year for the past couple of years, so my suggeston above regarding the amount of fuel we consume does not reflect much traveling at all really; the cost is based on how long we need to run the engine for each day to extend the life span of our battery bank for as long as possible.

Dave has conceded that the 40 inch tv does consume a massive amount of power and instead of having it on when neither of us are actually watching it, it is now turned on daily to watch the morning news and weather and in the evenings when there is something on we want to watch.  I got hooked on Sudoku whilst in the hospital and it takes no power at all other than my wee brain:rolleyes:

 

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14 minutes ago, Bettie Boo said:

You need to realize there is a big difference in how we all live on our boats and the amount of electricity we use.  One person or two I don't think would make a huge difference really, you'll still want to do a load of washing at least once a week, you'll still need to have a light on to read (unless your planning on using oil lamps only), you'll still need to charge whatever gagets you have onboard whether it be a phone, tablet or laptop and so on, even if you aren't planning on having a tv, but if you're planning on watching dvd's I guess you will indeed need a tv to watch them on and it will use electricity all of which take power from your battery bank which will need to have the engine run to top them back up.

I'm not saying that it absoutly couldn't be done on £300 worth of fuel per year, but it sure would be a very meager & restricted lifestyle in my opinion.

Due to my recent health issues, we haven't traveled more than about 60 -70 miles per year for the past couple of years, so my suggeston above regarding the amount of fuel we consume does not reflect much traveling at all really; the cost is based on how long we need to run the engine for each day to extend the life span of our battery bank for as long as possible.

Dave has conceded that the 40 inch tv does consume a massive amount of power and instead of having it on when neither of us are actually watching it, it is now turned on daily to watch the morning news and weather and in the evenings when there is something on we want to watch.  I got hooked on Sudoku whilst in the hospital and it takes no power at all other than my wee brain:rolleyes:

 

Gosh, well done,  even understanding what that sudoko is all about, just a complete no no for me.

I disagree about one/two persons laundry, that 's not right, has to be x2!

I have do have a 19 inch TV, but don't watch it: I then used the laptop on the few occasions I watched mainstream TV, in the end I gave up, and stopped watching altogether, though I miss BBC NEWS.

I have DVDs from last xmas, not actually watched them, even though they were on my xmas wish list, and were presents!

I probably will have an oil lamp, as they do lift the chill from the air, but are not great in the lumens department. I   think it is best to have lots of alternatives, so that if for example the electricity dies, one has means of heat, warmth, and light, and candles ar very popular, tea lighs are cheap, and I rather like the strings of LEDs for festive garlands.

 

 

 

Edited by LadyG

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17 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Gosh, well done,  even understanding what that sudoko is all about, just a complete no no for me.

I disagree about one/two persons laundry, that 's not right, has to be x2!

I have do have a 19 inch TV, but don't watch it: I then used the laptop on the few occasions I watched mainstream TV, in the end I gave up, and stopped watching altogether, though I miss BBC NEWS.

I have DVDs from last xmas, not actually watched them, even though they were on my xmas wish list, and were presents!

I probably will have an oil lamp, as they do lift the chill from the air, but are not great in the lumens department. I   think it is best to have lots of alternatives, so that if for example the electricity dies, one has means of heat, warmth, and light, and candles ar very popular, tea lighs are cheap, and I rather like the strings of LEDs for festive garlands.

 

 

 

Yes of course two people produce more dirty laundry a week than one would, I didn't mean to insinuate it wouldn't be otherwise.  But the washer really doesn't consider whether it's washing a tea towel or a full load it takes the same amout of electricity to run.

If your "electricity dies" I'd suggest you'd be looking at replacing your battery bank quite sharpish - the aim is to Never let your batteries go below a 50% SOC - we actually strive to keep ours above that at all times.  As in doing things like: if we know we will have the telly on for a few hours in the evening we switch the freezer off as soon as the sun is off the solar panels (I bought a freezer which will hold it's tempature for 18 - 20 hours with out being hooked up to power) then when we run the engine in the morning the freezer is turned back on. 

I do agree that having a back up for the important things; heat, lights, a cooking device, fresh water & a loo facility is definanetly a good way to go about things.  That doesn't mean we sit around trying to read by the light of a candle or tea light, or cook a 3 course meal on the MF stove.  If we did, we'd end up spending more on tea lights & candles than we do on diesel to produce the same amount of light.

As I said earlier, life styles differ greatly, and really "to each his own" is my motto, how you choose to live is completely your business and yours alone.  But thinking that running your engine for 1 hour a day is simply unrealistic in my mind whether moving or not. 

I presume when you get your boat you will be single handling it?  Have you asked other ladies who are on their own what the average time is for going through locks?  Or even a flight of locks!  It takes us on average anywhere from 20 - 30 minutes; now that's not necessarily a good example as we are a WB and there are two of us, but we aren't in a rush.  But based on your 1 hour a day, means we could only do 2 locks and 20 minutes of traveling, all the while not getting very far if it's in a busy spot where you will need to slow down for moored boats.

I would suggest when trying to set out your monthly expenditures rather then basing it on a "minimun" spend you base it on a "maximum" or at least realistic spend, that way you'll avoid a lot of nasty suprises that first year.

Oh as a foot note...you mentioned pulling up to a pub and charging your batteries from their supplied power points.  We've only been cruising for 4 years now, and only on the wide canals & rivers south of Braunston; but we've only ever come across one pub that offers this facility and that was on the Thames and to moor there it was £15 per night - needless to say we gave it a miss.  Maybe it's a more popular concept on the narrow canals or up north.  Mind you with that said, it's not something we've ever looked out for so could possibably passed many pubs by that do indeed offer such facilities.  I'm sure someone will be along shortly to correct me if I've given you missleading information.

  • Greenie 1

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2 hours ago, Bettie Boo said:

You need to realize there is a big difference in how we all live on our boats and the amount of electricity we use.  One person or two I don't think would make a huge difference really, you'll still want to do a load of washing at least once a week, you'll still need to have a light on to read (unless your planning on using oil lamps only), you'll still need to charge whatever gagets you have onboard whether it be a phone, tablet or laptop and so on, even if you aren't planning on having a tv, but if you're planning on watching dvd's I guess you will indeed need a tv to watch them on and it will use electricity all of which take power from your battery bank which will need to have the engine run to top them back up.

I'm not saying that it absoutly couldn't be done on £300 worth of fuel per year, but it sure would be a very meager & restricted lifestyle in my opinion.

Due to my recent health issues, we haven't traveled more than about 60 -70 miles per year for the past couple of years, so my suggeston above regarding the amount of fuel we consume does not reflect much traveling at all really; the cost is based on how long we need to run the engine for each day to extend the life span of our battery bank for as long as possible.

Dave has conceded that the 40 inch tv does consume a massive amount of power and instead of having it on when neither of us are actually watching it, it is now turned on daily to watch the morning news and weather and in the evenings when there is something on we want to watch.  I got hooked on Sudoku whilst in the hospital and it takes no power at all other than my wee brain:rolleyes:

 

Gosh, well done,  even understanding what that sudoko is all about, just a complete no no for me.

I disagree about one/two persons laundry, that 's not right, has to be x2!

I have a 19 inch TV, but don't watch it I use the laptop on the few occasions I watch mainstream TV, in the end I gave up, and stopped watching altogether, though I miss BBC NEWS.

I have DVDs from last xmas, not actually watched them, even though they were on my xmas wish list, and were presents!

 

 

 

I  don t expect the electrics to die, sorry, but I am not going to rely on it for everything.

A roaring fire and a hot toddy, I can just climb under the duvet,  read a book or listen to Book at Bedtime.

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I give up:huh:  but please let us all know how it all works out running your engine for 1 hour a day and how long it takes to go through your first set of batteries.

 

Sorry for hijacking your thread Heffalump, I hope you got the info you were seeking?

  • Greenie 1

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We've recently left a marina to spend the rest of the summer and autumn on the cut. It strikes me having read through the thread that it may be better to run the engine less than is optimum for battery life and save on fuel, since the savings on fuel might outweigh the cost of additional batteries over a given period. I know plenty will disagree with my reasoning since i'm aware of the general consensus from previous threads, so am not looking here to argue the pros and cons of maximising long-term battery capacity. Anyway, this is all new to us, we bought our boat last November and it's our first. One thing that has become obvious to me after just a couple of weeks is that the electric fridge is an enormous draw on power, and having to run the inverter all day just to power a fridge is a further significant draw. Our boat isn't wired up to take a 12v fridge (we have just one 12v outlet on the boat), so we are experimenting with the following option: using minimal food that requires chilling, and using a combination of the fridge and ice box for the few essentials. In essence these essentials are little more than milk and butter. Tinned vegetables can replace frozen, and if you want to treat yourself then fresh veg and salads will keep a few days on the boat anyway. Long life milk can be stored in a cupboard until opened, and so can peanut butter, which is a decent option on bread for breakfast if you run out of butter. Additionally, rice cakes are a good option to stock in the cupboard in case you run out of bread and are tasty with butter and jam, peanut butter etc. Therefore, we a going to try just powering the fridge for a couple of hours whilst the engine is running. After this the inverter can be turned off for the rest of the day unless we wish to watch tv or power a laptop (we have a 12v radio/cd player). On a reasonably cool day a couple of hours running the fridge gets the ice box down to about -20C, and even about 20 hours later the temperature is still about 3-4C. Therefore, milk, butter etc. can be stored in the main fridge compartment to begin with, then when the temperature of the fridge begins to rise these items can be transferred to the ice box, which will have dropped down nearer to an acceptable fridge temperature. Obviously during heatwave the fridge, and hence the inverter and engine, will have to be run for longer. A cheap fridge thermometer from the likes of Maplins can be used to monitor temperatures.

Another power saving trick that most of you will already be aware of is to replace any halogen bulbs with led ones, which if i remember correctly are about 7-8 times more efficient with power. I would highly recommend Bedazzled as a source for these, they have a wide range of options and all have overload protection built in. Merely replacing the halogen bulbs with multi-point led bulbs in our existing spotlamps has given our 20 year old boat a more modern look, especially in the galley area where we chose a  high lumen cool white option that has proved excellent for food preparation. We'll be buying another of these to act as a reading lamp.

Edited by Froggy

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21 minutes ago, Froggy said:

Our boat isn't wired up to take a 12v fridge (we have just one 12v outlet on the boat)

 

:blink:

Quote

 In essence these essentials are little more than milk and butter.

 

Even better, get proper butter and don't keep it in the 'fridge!

2 hours ago, Bettie Boo said:

Sorry for hijacking your thread Heffalump, I hope you got the info you were seeking?

 

No need for sorrow!  Yes thanks, your reply was very helpful :)

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13 minutes ago, Heffalump said:

Even better, get proper butter and don't keep it in the 'fridge!

 

:cheers:

(Our one 12v socket has proved very useful for recharging our phones though! We were going to get an electric cool box to use on that socket in lieu of the fridge, but are probably going to put the money toward a more power-efficient fridge instead).

Edited by Froggy
thought of sumfink else!

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17 hours ago, Bettie Boo said:

You need to realize there is a big difference in how we all live on our boats and the amount of electricity we use.  One person or two I don't think would make a huge difference really, you'll still want to do a load of washing at least once a week, you'll still need to have a light on to read (unless your planning on using oil lamps only), you'll still need to charge whatever gagets you have onboard whether it be a phone, tablet or laptop and so on, even if you aren't planning on having a tv, but if you're planning on watching dvd's I guess you will indeed need a tv to watch them on and it will use electricity all of which take power from your battery bank which will need to have the engine run to top them back up.

I'm not saying that it absoutly couldn't be done on £300 worth of fuel per year, but it sure would be a very meager & restricted lifestyle in my opinion.

Due to my recent health issues, we haven't traveled more than about 60 -70 miles per year for the past couple of years, so my suggeston above regarding the amount of fuel we consume does not reflect much traveling at all really; the cost is based on how long we need to run the engine for each day to extend the life span of our battery bank for as long as possible.

Dave has conceded that the 40 inch tv does consume a massive amount of power and instead of having it on when neither of us are actually watching it, it is now turned on daily to watch the morning news and weather and in the evenings when there is something on we want to watch.  I got hooked on Sudoku whilst in the hospital and it takes no power at all other than my wee brain:rolleyes:

 

Gosh, well done,  even understanding what that sudoko is all about, just a complete no no for me.

I disagree about one/two persons laundry, that 's not right, has to be x2!

I have a 19 inch TV, but don't watch it I use the laptop on the few occasions I watch mainstream TV, in the end I gave up, and stopped watching altogether, though I miss BBC NEWS.

I have DVDs from last xmas, not actually watched them, even though they were on my xmas wish list, and were presents!

 

 

 

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I thought, in the interests of precision, or is it accuracy, that I 'd check my current use of electricity, this summer month, with only the laptop and the fridge, the kettle, one hot meal per day,   occasional heating, and washing.   For this year and last , its 2.8 units per day, mostly the fridge I  would think, especially as it is enclosed by the units and the worktops it is not allowed to run efficiently. My estimated boat usage will be the same , and with 5 hours of sunshine, a 300w solar panel and 110ah good battery is indicated for four to six months of the year, the fridge can be turned off on a regular daily basis when there is a shortfall in incoming.

 So I  think that a bit of a top up will be needed for 26 weeks,  I can probably manage a few trips to the pub and back to keep the angry pixies motivated every few days of spring and autumn, plus a few hours of navigating, of course.

In the dead of winter I will still use 3Kwatt per day [less fridge more of everything else],  I need to "buy" 3  x 7 x 12 units ie 250 units , which from a marina will be 15p per unit [not counting overnight fees],  the electricity cost for three winter months is 250 x  15p  ie £37.50

If I count marina fees, £20 per night, twice a month, to equalise the batteries, that rather increases overall unit costs, but  I  think it will be offset by a access to laundry and other facilities, plus longer battey life.

I  anticipate stringent battery management in winter, but there would be no significant benefit from extra solar, other than a bit more flexibility in spring and autumn 

Should we open a new thread at this point?

Edited by LadyG

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49 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I thought, in the interests of precision, or is it accuracy, that I 'd check my current use of electricity, this summer month, with only the laptop and the fridge, the kettle, one hot meal per day,   occasional heating, and washing.   For this year and last , its 2.8 units per day, mostly the fridge I  would think, especially as it is enclosed by the units and the worktops it is not allowed to run efficiently. My estimated boat usage will be the same , and with 5 hours of sunshine, a 300w solar panel and 110ah good battery is indicated for four to six months of the year, the fridge can be turned off on a regular daily basis when there is a shortfall in incoming.

 So I  think that a bit of a top up will be needed for 26 weeks,  I can probably manage a few trips to the pub and back to keep the angry pixies motivated every few days of spring and autumn, plus a few hours of navigating, of course.

In the dead of winter I will still use 3Kwatt per day [less fridge more of everything else],  I need to "buy" 3  x 7 x 12 units ie 250 units , which from a marina will be 15p per unit [not counting overnight fees],  the electricity cost for three winter months is 250 x  15p  ie £37.50

If I count marina fees, £20 per night, twice a month, to equalise the batteries, that rather increases overall unit costs, but  I  think it will be offset by a access to laundry and other facilities, plus longer battey life.

I  anticipate stringent battery management in winter, but there would be no significant benefit from extra solar, other than a bit more flexibility in spring and autumn 

Should we open a new thread at this point?

Just get more panels 

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9 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Just get more panels 

But I don't think it is economic, the cost of instalation, upgrading of trace thingy etc, and more ah [two batteries], its something to do with the Law of Diminishing Returns

http://solarpowerednarrowboat.blogspot.co.uk/

Has anyone devised a heat pump for use in the cut that could be driven by the batteries and be self sustaining? 

Edited by LadyG

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6 minutes ago, LadyG said:

But I don't think it is economic, the cost of instalation, upgrading of trace thingy etc, and more ah [two batteries], its something to do with the Law of Diminishing Returns

http://solarpowerednarrowboat.blogspot.co.uk/

I didn't realize you wanted a solar propelled boat.

I would think 500 ish watts of solar is likely to cover your needs from mar to oct, then plug in at the marina. 

Our 1000W is overkill, but we very rarely have to turn the fridge off between mar and oct

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5 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I didn't realize you wanted a solar propelled boat.

I would think 500 ish watts of solar is likely to cover your needs from mar to oct, then plug in at the marina. 

Our 1000W is overkill, but we very rarely have to turn the fridge off between mar and oct

 

In the future, with battery technology, it might indeed be economic to have a hybid narrowboat, they do exist , but soley solar powered is a step too far for me, though not for all.

https://www.gumtree.com/p/boats-kayaks-jet-skis/solar-powered-wide-beam/1255813398

I'm not sure if Gumtree is the best place to market a quarter of a million pound  boat, but in the spirit of low carbon footprint, it is FREE.

Edited by LadyG

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1 minute ago, LadyG said:

In the future, with battery technology, it might indeed be economic to have a hybid narrowboat, they do exist , but soley solar powered is a step too far for me, though not for all.

https://www.gumtree.com/p/boats-kayaks-jet-skis/solar-powered-wide-beam/1255813398

Looks like a barge-in. Do you get to stay at the palace as part of the cost I wonder. 

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Rumour has it Our Dear Queen still misses her summer cruise on Royal Yacht Britannia, I  think she could easily fork out £250,000, and hold a pre Christmas bash on the Thames. She can use this one [ at 3 mins] for backup on non sunny days

 

 

Edited by LadyG

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