3 way fridges

[honey ryder]

Ive been wondering if it might be worthwhile changing our 12v fridge which zaps our batteries everyday to a 3 way, 12v, gas and 240v type.

 

im fed up of having to charge our batteries ( 3 110amp leisure batteries) simply to keep our fridge running. we use virtually no other electricity, apart from the water pump and one or two lights for a few moments ( we like candles or dynamo torches)

we live basically like we are in a tent most of the time and the only thing killing our batteries daily is the fridge.

if we switch that off we can last nearly a week without having to charge them.

 

So im thinking, possibly it could be a good idea to install a fridge that can run on gas.

however i know nothing about them other than when mentioned people seem to go "oooh" or "aaah bSC"

so, having read through some regs for the bsc and they have gone completely over my head, can anyone help me with some advice.

 

we have a diesel engine, it is outside ina seperate engine area under a cruiser stern. our full size fridge is under the worktop near the main door ( inbetween the washing machine and the oven) it has its own compartment so to speak, being made of wooden sides it is basically encased except for at the front so we can open the door.

there is a gap above the fridge big enough I think for ventilation for a gas fridge.

 

the main gas line must run somewhere near to the fridge to ge to the hob and oven/grill. I think it runs behind the washing machine first before getting to the hob. so seems ideally placed to splice in a fridge line.

 

so.. after my description of my current appliances.. what do you lot think? would i be better with a gas fridge or should i just get on with charging the batteries daily for an hour and a half at a time simply to power the fridge?

Edited May 3, 2007 by honey ryder

[NB Willawaw]

see:

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php...c=8488&st=0

 

Have you thought of fitting a wind generator ??

Edited May 3, 2007 by NB Willawaw

[honey ryder]

weve looked at wind generators and solar panels.

on the canal (where we are, where have been and plan to go)there is very little wind

the solar panels dont give enough power to actually run a fridge unless we fill the roof space with expensive panels...

 

seems a bit steep to stop my butter from melting or my milk from turning sour.

 

i was just wondering what problems i might encounter if i fit a gas fridge..

are they efficient, do they get as cold?

do they use a lot of gas?

will i have a problem renewing my BSC next time around?

what regulations are in place? do i need to have the fridge isolated in a separate room or something?

[Breals]

I got one this time last year, after putting up with canned food and UHT milk for months I got an old one from a 2nd hand caravan place and hooked it up. It's great, although it does produce a lot of heat. Small price to pay for cold beer and the ability to store fishfingers! It passed the BSS inspection with no problem, which was a huge relief (although my cooker and water heater both failed...)

 

It doesn't use much gas, probably less than the pilot light for the water heater. It's great.

 

My boat had had one in the past, so there was a flue installed, but you may need to make a hole in the cabin side for a flue fitting for 'exhaust gases'.

 

Sometimes the fridge gets a bit too cold - I have had everything freeze a couple of times, but its mostly fine.

Edited May 3, 2007 by Breals

[elessina]

the solar panels dont give enough power to actually run a fridge unless we fill the roof space with expensive panels...

I would guess you need to spend around £300 to £400 on solar panels to run a fridge. Others can advise more accurately.

 

Alternatively you have the cost of a gas fridge and the installation and adoption costs, then you have the ongoing safety issues that have been discussed, so the cost is likely to be greater than £400 (you can eliminate the CO safety concerns if you choose the approx. £1,000 Dometec room sealed lpg fridge).

 

I would go for solar, especially as you already have your fridge. Spend just a touch more on solar panels and it will (most of the time) cover your lighting and pump requirements.

 

Ian

[honey ryder]

thanks people, good advice.

 

we were wanting to get solar panels anyway, but I wasnt sure that they would keep the fridge running while we are away the occasional weekend or holiday week.

we were also thinking of adding an extra battery to our bank of 110 leisures... making it 4 in total. maybe that would help.

we bought a more powerful alternator to improve the charging but we havent got to the bottom of an altertor not getting excited problem yet... so we havent installed it yet.

[Timleech]

thanks people, good advice.

 

we bought a more powerful alternator to improve the charging but we havent got to the bottom of an altertor not getting excited problem yet... so we havent installed it yet.

 

Which make/model of alternator? is it working through a diode splitter (box with fins on)?

 

Tim

[blackrose]

Have a look at this thread in Boatbuilding & Maintainance http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php...c=8488&st=0

[honey ryder]

Have a look at this thread in Boatbuilding & Maintainance http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php...c=8488&st=0

 

its seems on reading through various threads about the 3way fridges that in fact they work good on gas but the electric side is a waste of time for boaters. ( great for caravanners)

 

I think if I continue my search for some decent solar panels and add another battery to the system, plus a wind gennie later when its more windy/wintery this might be a better route of action rather than using a gas fridge. I could also take the solar and wind power system with me when i move to another boat sometime in the future. we are also looking for a small gennie to charge the batteries with so we dont have the engine noise vibrating through the boat for hours on end.

 

our boat has 3 x 6kg bottles and these are really expensive to replace. ( im also looking at gas-station refillable types to see if we can save money that way) so far we've managed to empty just over 2 of these since living on the boat from the middle of january, so at £16-17 each time they are quite expensive.

 

the gas is used for cooking and the central heating and hot water,( we havent been able to use the boiler much since its got a small leak, water not gas.. which we also havent got to the bottom of yet)

[Breals]

Those smaller gas bottles don't sound economical, it's only a couple of quid more for the 13kg ones. But I guess you'd need to have a new gas locker.

[honey ryder]

yes weve looked into it, but not its possible with our current set up, we have two lockers at the back, one houses 3 x 6kggas bottles plus a bit of rope and the other lockers has more rope and shore power cable, mini barby etc. ( mainly its a stuff it and forget it locker) we sit on them and put a table between to eat outside so making them higher to accomodate bigger bottles wouldnt work.

 

i think its just a case of, like it or lump it. i really dont understand why the 6kg bottles are so expensive compared to others double their size. i have looked into the self refillable ones, which would mean we could save money by filling them at fuel stations that sell lpg.

the bottles are expensive at the outset but we might recover that quite quickly if we use our alde boiler much next winter.

[Tony Brooks]

yes weve looked into it, but not its possible with our current set up, we have two lockers at the back, one houses 3 x 6kggas bottles plus a bit of rope and the other lockers has more rope and shore power cable, mini barby etc. ( mainly its a stuff it and forget it locker) we sit on them and put a table between to eat outside so making them higher to accomodate bigger bottles wouldnt work.

 

i think its just a case of, like it or lump it. i really dont understand why the 6kg bottles are so expensive compared to others double their size. i have looked into the self refillable ones, which would mean we could save money by filling them at fuel stations that sell lpg.

the bottles are expensive at the outset but we might recover that quite quickly if we use our alde boiler much next winter.

 

 

An Alde in winter on 6kg bottles - Hm.

 

Aldes have many attributes, but fuel economy is not one of them. I can get through 19kg in in under a week. You may well be bale to save money by refiling, but I think an auto-change over valve would be vital to avoid either leaving partially empty bottles or very cold mornings.

 

Tony Brooks

[Nige]

Ive been wondering if it might be worthwhile changing our 12v fridge which zaps our batteries everyday to a 3 way, 12v, gas and 240v type.

 

im fed up of having to charge our batteries ( 3 110amp leisure batteries) simply to keep our fridge running. we use virtually no other electricity, apart from the water pump and one or two lights for a few moments ( we like candles or dynamo torches)

we live basically like we are in a tent most of the time and the only thing killing our batteries daily is the fridge.

if we switch that off we can last nearly a week without having to charge them.

 

So im thinking, possibly it could be a good idea to install a fridge that can run on gas.

however i know nothing about them other than when mentioned people seem to go "oooh" or "aaah bSC"

so, having read through some regs for the bsc and they have gone completely over my head, can anyone help me with some advice.

 

we have a diesel engine, it is outside ina seperate engine area under a cruiser stern. our full size fridge is under the worktop near the main door ( inbetween the washing machine and the oven) it has its own compartment so to speak, being made of wooden sides it is basically encased except for at the front so we can open the door.

there is a gap above the fridge big enough I think for ventilation for a gas fridge.

 

the main gas line must run somewhere near to the fridge to ge to the hob and oven/grill. I think it runs behind the washing machine first before getting to the hob. so seems ideally placed to splice in a fridge line.

 

so.. after my description of my current appliances.. what do you lot think? would i be better with a gas fridge or should i just get on with charging the batteries daily for an hour and a half at a time simply to power the fridge?

 

 

Hi Folks,

 

Having read all the responses to this question Im still non the wiser !

 

To use myself as an example im fitting out an older boat (launched 1971 to be precise!!) now she never had a proper kitchen and I want to fit a gas powered fridge as It seems that they are far more economical.

 

Simple question - are gas powered fridges allowed to be fitted and if so where can you buy them new or quality second hand?

 

Cheers,

Nige

[Gary Peacock]

Hi Folks,

 

Having read all the responses to this question Im still non the wiser !

 

To use myself as an example im fitting out an older boat (launched 1971 to be precise!!) now she never had a proper kitchen and I want to fit a gas powered fridge as It seems that they are far more economical.

 

Simple question - are gas powered fridges allowed to be fitted and if so where can you buy them new or quality second hand?

 

Cheers,

Nige

 

We can get them if you want one, but I think it would be a good idea to ask the BSS for the definitive answer on their rules.

 

It is definitely a non starter on a CE marked boat though.

[Nige]

We can get them if you want one, but I think it would be a good idea to ask the BSS for the definitive answer on their rules.

 

It is definitely a non starter on a CE marked boat though.

 

Cheers Gary.

I'll give jerry Wiggins a call - he's a shining light of common sense for a BSC inspector !!

 

Can you give me some ball park numbers for sizes and prices of the gas powered fridges please ?

Im thinking of a typica larder size that fits under a kitchen worktop.

 

Cheers Gary,

Nige

[Rob@BSSOffice]

Cheers Gary.

I'll give jerry Wiggins a call - he's a shining light of common sense for a BSC inspector !!

 

Can you give me some ball park numbers for sizes and prices of the gas powered fridges please ?

 

 

 

Older style non-room-sealed three way gas fridges will not prevent the issue of a certificate on a provided the boat is diesel engined.

Older style non-room-sealed three way gas fridges are not recommended to be fitted by the Boat Safety Scheme as they carry more of an intrinsic risk of CO poisoning from the flue dislodging or otherwise being damaged.

The last CO poisoning arising from use a three way fridge was in September last year (two unconcious people flown to a London hospital for hyperbaric oxygen treatment). I am aware of seven reports of fridge related CO poisonings on boats in the last 15 years.

If a boat is is an owner occupied craft used mainly as a place of residence, a gas appliance must be fitted by a corgi registered person (UK law).

A corgi registered fitter working in accordance with the BS or ISO codes of practice may not wish to fit a non-room-sealed appliance.

Modern electric or room-sealed gas fridges are far more efficient at cooling and insulating than older fridges. They consume less power and savings will be made in running costs even though the capital outlay is greater.

Research is indicating that exposure to low levels of CO for extended and regular periods can lead to chronic health problems.

It is our understanding, that some insurance companies will consider carefully what cover they offer to boats where there is a risk of CO, particularly where the appliance is fitted against manfacturers instructions. This was related to us at a marine insurance seminar. People fitting such appliances may wish to check the details of their cover with their brokers

 

I think those bullet points summerise the situation.

Regards

Rob@BSS Office

[Nige]

Older style non-room-sealed three way gas fridges will not prevent the issue of a certificate on a provided the boat is diesel engined.

Older style non-room-sealed three way gas fridges are not recommended to be fitted by the Boat Safety Scheme as they carry more of an intrinsic risk of CO poisoning from the flue dislodging or otherwise being damaged.

The last CO poisoning arising from use a three way fridge was in September last year (two unconcious people flown to a London hospital for hyperbaric oxygen treatment). I am aware of seven reports of fridge related CO poisonings on boats in the last 15 years.

If a boat is is an owner occupied craft used mainly as a place of residence, a gas appliance must be fitted by a corgi registered person (UK law).

A corgi registered fitter working in accordance with the BS or ISO codes of practice may not wish to fit a non-room-sealed appliance.

Modern electric or room-sealed gas fridges are far more efficient at cooling and insulating than older fridges. They consume less power and savings will be made in running costs even though the capital outlay is greater.

Research is indicating that exposure to low levels of CO for extended and regular periods can lead to chronic health problems.

It is our understanding, that some insurance companies will consider carefully what cover they offer to boats where there is a risk of CO, particularly where the appliance is fitted against manfacturers instructions. This was related to us at a marine insurance seminar. People fitting such appliances may wish to check the details of their cover with their brokers

 

I think those bullet points summerise the situation.

Regards

Rob@BSS Office

 

hi Rob,

Thanks very much for this information - it is very helpful.

 

So the next question is are room sealed gas fridges available to buy new? And if so is this a question for gary at Ledgard ?!?!?

[NB Alnwick]

So the next question is are room sealed gas fridges available to buy new?

 

Yes they are - available from the Chandlery at Wharf House Narrow Boats, Braunston

http://www.wharfhouse.co.uk/chandlery.htm

[Gary Peacock]

I should have some details of both room sealed and non-room sealed types soon we used to fit quite a few and have done the installation course for them but haven't ordered one for that long they stopped supplying the info to us.

[Nige]

Yes they are - available from the Chandlery at Wharf House Narrow Boats, Braunston

http://www.wharfhouse.co.uk/chandlery.htm

 

 

Cheers for that, will give them a call.

Nige

 

I should have some details of both room sealed and non-room sealed types soon we used to fit quite a few and have done the installation course for them but haven't ordered one for that long they stopped supplying the info to us.

 

 

Thanks Gary.

Nige

[Gary Peacock]

OK the two room sealed models are-

 

RM7213LSC 60 Litre

 

RM7401LSC 97 Litre

 

at 2007 RRP £599.95 and £799.00 respectively. Remember these are RRP only.

 

Plus about another £30.00 worth of fitting kit.

 

The RM4213LSC and RM6401LSC are old discontinued models if you are offered them.

 

The equivalent non room sealed models are-

 

RM4213 60 Litre

 

RM7400 97 Litre

 

at 2007 RRP £469.95 and £599.95

 

Plus about another £35.00 worth of fitting kit.

 

I have the full price list now for the various others they do but those are the only two room sealed units available while the non room sealed one are available in both smaller and bigger sizes.

Edited May 18, 2007 by Gary Peacock

[drunkensailor]

Mine was reasonably economical on gas, but could fly through the 12v, and I always had an irrational fear about leaving gas flames going when I left the boat, so it had to go, along with the rest of the gas stuff.

I now have one of those thermoelectric coolbox things which just holds four cans of beer and goes on when I'm cruising, with food I buy fresh and use the same day. It was only £20!

[Nige]

OK the two room sealed models are-

 

RM7213LSC 60 Litre

 

RM7401LSC 97 Litre

 

at 2007 RRP £599.95 and £799.00 respectively. Remember these are RRP only.

 

Plus about another £30.00 worth of fitting kit.

 

The RM4213LSC and RM6401LSC are old discontinued models if you are offered them.

 

The equivalent non room sealed models are-

 

RM4213 60 Litre

 

RM7400 97 Litre

 

at 2007 RRP £469.95 and £599.95

 

Plus about another £35.00 worth of fitting kit.

 

I have the full price list now for the various others they do but those are the only two room sealed units available while the non room sealed one are available in both smaller and bigger sizes.

 

Thanks for that Gary - much appreciated.

I'll be getting in touch when I get to fittiing out the kitchen (doing the bathroom at the moment!).

Cheers,

Nige

[mayalld]

If a boat is is an owner occupied craft used mainly as a place of residence, a gas appliance must be fitted by a corgi registered person (UK law).

 

Could you cite exactly which law requires this?

 

It is my understanding that (despite what corgi try to make it look like) the requirement for registration applies ONLY to people being paid to do gas work, and that it is entirely legal to do your own gas fitting.

[Rob@BSSOffice]

Hello Dave,

The law relating to the scope of premises covered, what is gas work and who may carry it out is in statutory instrument 2451 of 1998.

See http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1998/98245102.htm#3

 

Regards

Rob