Electrical drawings

[Northernboy]

I am having a 57x10 widebeam shell built and later in the year I will start to fit it out. I am looking for a company or individual who I can pay to provide detailed drawings for all the electrical systems and cabling on the boat. I think as part of the eventual certification I will need to provide drawings so it is far easier to follow drawings that adhere to all the rules and regulations than make it up as I go then have to go back and get drawings. I guess this is quite a specialist field and are struggling to find someone.

[Alan de Enfield]

Just an observation, but whilst you may find someone to do the drawings, they are unlikely to actually allow the use of their name on the RCD certification if they have not actually done the installation - they, or anyone else, have no idea if you have complied with the drawings.

[dave moore]

Keith Meadowcroft who trades as Volt Master may be able to help, he's a specialist marine electrician. PM me for contact details.

 

Dave

[Murflynn]

Just an observation, but whilst you may find someone to do the drawings, they are unlikely to actually allow the use of their name on the RCD certification if they have not actually done the installation - they, or anyone else, have no idea if you have complied with the drawings.

if the OP is trying to obtain RCD certification that will be only one of his worries. He should decide now, before he starts planning his fit-out, if he intends to go the RCD route.

[NMEA]

The circuit diagrams for the handbook that goes to the RCD file are actually quite simple and will not show it's compliance with either BS EN ISO 10133: Small craft. Electrical systems. Extra-low-voltage d.c. Installations or BS EN ISO 13297:, Small craft. Electrical systems. Alternating current installations. Anybody who is executing the installs to those standards should be more than capable of providing the documentation required for RCD anyway.

Edited March 5, 2016 by NMEA

[Alan de Enfield]

if the OP is trying to obtain RCD certification that will be only one of his worries. He should decide now, before he starts planning his fit-out, if he intends to go the RCD route.

 

He states in the OP that he will "eventually be going for certification" - possibly not realising that RCD is a 'whole project' requirement not something you get 'at the end'.

 

 

..... Anybody who is executing the installs to those standards should be more than capable of providing the documentation required for RCD anyway.

 

The OP is looking to DIY the installation but it would appear that he needs help in the design.

[NMEA]

 

The OP is looking to DIY the installation but it would appear that he needs help in the design.

In that case my suggestion be that he/she gets hold of the two current ISO documents, makes a VERY large pot of coffee and sits down in a comfy chair for a few hours to get a flavor for what is required and then constantly refers to them during the install, asking questions as and when required.

[Murflynn]

 

He states in the OP that he will "eventually be going for certification" - possibly not realising that RCD is a 'whole project' requirement not something you get 'at the end'.

 

 

 

 

not quite, he said : I think as part of the eventual certification, which doesn't necessarily imply RCD standards.

In that case my suggestion be that he/she gets hold of the two current ISO documents, makes a VERY large pot of coffee and sits down in a comfy chair for a few hours to get a flavor for what is required and then constantly refers to them during the install, asking questions as and when required.

............. and write a specification for the materials, design and installation using the relevant clauses from the ISOs, which can then be used to define what he will do and should eventually form part of the RCD Technical File.

[Alan de Enfield]

not quite, he said : I think as part of the eventual certification, which doesn't necessarily imply RCD standards.

 

 

There is always that possibility, but, I wonder what other certification standards you would build a 'widebeam narrowboat' to ?

Of course RCD is not mandatory unless you try to sell it within 5 years of its first use.

[Northernboy]

Thanks for all the comments and I am in discussions with Keith who is being very helpful. It is still very early days and I am invetigating what is involved with being RCD compliant and if it's something I need. It will all come down to what extra work and costs are involved as I have no plans to sell the boat.

[Alan de Enfield]

Thanks for all the comments and I am in discussions with Keith who is being very helpful. It is still very early days and I am invetigating what is involved with being RCD compliant and if it's something I need. It will all come down to what extra work and costs are involved as I have no plans to sell the boat.

 

Very few people do plan to sell their boat but 'stuff' happens.

If you lost your job, your partner / lover/ sweetheart / mother etc needed urgent private medical aid or died or whatever - could you still afford to keep the boat - would you want to ?

[Murflynn]

Thanks for all the comments and I am in discussions with Keith who is being very helpful. It is still very early days and I am invetigating what is involved with being RCD compliant and if it's something I need. It will all come down to what extra work and costs are involved as I have no plans to sell the boat.

if you do it properly there should be no extra costs (other than registering your HIN with the RYA), always provided that you are capable of writing a competent technical document without expert assistance.

[by'eck]

This is the DC electrical (major part) installation drawing I provided my builder. I drew it using CorelDraw.

 

 

Pleased to say the builder did comply with it, with one or two minor exceptions. He then simply placed my drawing in the RCD conformity folder.

 

The thought of having a third party do this work for me would have lead to horrendous costs allied to many errors I suspect.

 

 

[Northernboy]

Again thanks for all the input from everyone. I have looked online for RCD documents so I can look at the specification and what they want but everything takes me to a website RCDWEB.COM and all the documents are locked. How can I look at all the docs for the RCD.

[Iain_S]

I think you have to register to see them.

[raymondh]

Unless your library has access to the BS required you have to purchase each bs/iso standard required

 

They are not cheap

 

Ray

 

 

see here

http://shop.bsigroup.com/

Edited March 13, 2016 by raymondh

[NMEA]

Like all things that cost money to produce and administer you need to subscribe or buy outright. A public library may be an avenue to explore though. Keeping up with all the ISO documents costs me quite a chunk.

[raymondh]

Example

 

BS EN ISO 13297:2014 Small craft. Electrical systems. Alternating current installations

Status : Current Published : December 2014

Price
£182.00

Member Price
£91.00

 

Ray

[NMEA]

Then you have to take into account t docs are a bit like a Matryoshka and the following docs are normatively referenced in ISO 13297:2014

 

ISO 7010, Graphical symbols — Safety colours and safety signs — Registered safety signs

ISO 8846, Small craft — Electrical devices — Protection against ignition of surrounding flammable gases

ISO 10133, Small craft — Electrical systems — Extra-low-voltage d.c. installations

ISO 10240, Small craft — Owner’s manual

IEC 60079-0, Explosive atmospheres — Part 0: General requirements

IEC 60309-2, Plugs, socket-outlets and couplers for industrial purposes — Part 2: Dimensional

interchangeability requirements for pin and contact-tube accessories

IEC 60446, Basic and safety principles for man-machine interface marking and identification — Identification

of conductors by colours or numerals

IEC 60529:1989, Degrees of protection provided by enclosures (IP code)

[Northernboy]

Wow....still can't believe that an organization has come up with a strict set of rules and regulations that I must adhere to but they won't tell me what they are!.....unless I pay them to tell me. It's like the government bringing out a new Highway Code for our roads then charging everyone £1000 to see it.

[Alan de Enfield]

Wow....still can't believe that an organization has come up with a strict set of rules and regulations that I must adhere to but they won't tell me what they are!.....unless I pay them to tell me. It's like the government bringing out a new Highway Code for our roads then charging everyone £1000 to see it.

 

Not really - its more like the Government telling Ford they must build their car to a certain standard and charging them for the compliance checks.

 

You are now a boat builder and have legal responsibilities.

 

If only it were £1000 tho'

 

So on the AC electrical you have 9 specifications (at £180 each ?).

Then you have DC electrical, Engines, fuel systems, gas, water, ventilation, stability testing, no of people rating etc etc

 

You could move to Manchester and use the library there as they have copies of the specifications, or, (as many people do) buy a boat built to your requirements by the boat builder :

 

Quicker - Yes.

Cheaper - Maybe (if you buy the specifications)

Easier - Yes

RCD compliant - Yes

 

As much of a challenge - No

Edited March 15, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[raymondh]

Or get this

 

http://www.ceproof.com/CE-Marking/EU/Marine/CE-Marking-Guide/Recreational-Craft-Directive/RCD-overview.html

 

Ray

[Loafer]

This is the DC electrical (major part) installation drawing I provided my builder. I drew it using CorelDraw.

 

DC wiring.jpg

 

Pleased to say the builder did comply with it, with one or two minor exceptions. He then simply placed my drawing in the RCD conformity folder.

 

The thought of having a third party do this work for me would have lead to horrendous costs allied to many errors I suspect.

 

 

 

That's a nice diagram, By'eck.