Will it fit?

[Sir Richard Head]

Having just parted with a non-returnable deposit for my first boat ( have used hire boats in the past), I need to start thinking about the detailed specs.

 

I'm considering having the boat built to 60' as I've been told by several people, that although the limiting lock length is 57', you can actually navigate the entire network in a 60 footer.

 

Are they correct and if not, which parts of the network will I be forced to avoid with a boat of that length?

Edited February 19, 2005 by Sir Richard Head

[Paul Evans]

Part of the Calder and Hebble and the Huddersfield Broad Canals have locks that were built to take Yorkshire keels and are only 57' 6" long. They are broad so it is possible to take a 60' narrowboat through them by putting the boat in diagonally across the lock. You need to take more then particular care when using the locks in this way, ensuring that you don't allow the boat to sit on the cill when going down or snagging on the gate or cill wall when going up.

 

Personally, I would prefer to be able to put the boat straight in alongside the lock wall. It is easier to control that way. Some of the paddle flows on these locks are particularly fierce. If I were having a boat built, I would restrict the length to 57' so that I could do that.

Edited February 19, 2005 by Paul Evans

[Gary Peacock]

Personally I push people to go for 57' rather than 60' even though it loses us money.

Anything over 57' becomes very hard work if not nigh on impossible on certain locks on the Calder & Hebble.

But somebody will probably tell me otherwise. Also if a lot of people actually got out a tape measure and measured their hulls there would be some interesting results!

 

 

Gary

[nb maggie]

I understand the same issue exists on some of the L&L locks. I was told that 57ft was the max, although the locks between Liverpool and Wigan are much bigger (so they could get mersey boats up to Wigan for Coal).

 

Bigger boat can get up the East side of the L&L but they have to go diagonal in the locks which looks a bit risky regards getting caught on the sides. Also I love the converstaions I have with other skippers when you double up in locks - its a real part of the pleasure.

 

I woukd go for the shorter length as you have also to think about winding. Having hired a 55ft a few times but now own a 43ft I am really pleased about how easy the smaller boat is to wind in all sorts of places where there is not official winding hole. It really makes life easy and makes cruising more flexible.

 

Having lived with our boat a while now, we reckon that an ideal length would be 50ft.

[John Orentas]

"Having lived with our boat a while now, we reckon that an ideal length would be 50ft".

 

Interesting point that, I suspect everybody's ideal boat length is about 6ft. longer than the one they have got.

 

Probably says something about people and life in general.

[Sir Richard Head]

The boat that I'm getting is an Aqualine Manhattan and the principle reason for opting for 60' was to get the bigger (42hp) engine with a secondary reason being more space in the lounge area. I'm planning to have an L-shaped dinette which takes up just under half of the available lounge length on the 57' version leaving only about 6' 6" for free standing furniture (i.e one easy chair)

 

My original plan was to go for 57', hence the reason I started this thread. (Could afford to go for the upgraded inverter if I stick with 57'!!!). I know it's changing the subject slightly, but could I get away with a 35hp engine in a 57' boat given that where I plan to moor will involve operating on the tidal Trent at times.

Edited February 19, 2005 by Sir Richard Head

[Richard Fairhurst]

I'd agree with the 57ft consensus. Theoretically you can do the C&H in a 60ft, even 61ft narrowboat if you go through certain locks (Salterhebble Middle I think is the tightest) both diagonally and, depending on direction of travel, backwards. But boating is meant to be fun and navigating C&H locks in a longer boat certainly wouldn't count as that.

 

There are, of course, a couple of shorter locks out east that you won't be able to navigate in anything longer than 40ft, but these only restrict you from a few miles of rarely-used waterway (the Little Ouse below Brandon Lock, the Middle Level southern route).

[John Orentas]

As far as performance goes, 35hp is quite adequate for a 57 foot boat, but if you go for 42hp however the engine and boat in general will have a more relaxed feel, very rarely requiring the use of full power even on tidal rivers.

 

You should really concentrate on getting the shell and engine that you want. The only thing that cannot be changed on a boat is the shell, spend as much as you can reasonably afford on that, even at the expense of some of the extras you want, they can come along later.

[wynd lass(nb.Black Pearl)]

Hi,

 

My last boat was 60 foot and we took her up the calder hebble.....it can be done....but it wasn't a good trip. We took the front and rear fenders off and even thoug we went diagonally in the locks, there were one or two which were very tight, all the locks seem to vary a bit in length, some you have plenty of space and some you think "my god where not going to do this!"...

 

Anyway we did manage it.....(but this boat is 58foot and it was still interesting fetching her from the builders yard (up the calder hebble).

 

if the CH isn't something your much bothered about really doing stick to your 60 foot, the Leeds Liv is fine with 60 foot........(62 foot locks).

[Sir Richard Head]

All your comments are greatly appreciated and have given me good food for thought.

 

I have one supplementary question:

 

Does having a boat longer than 57' have an adverse affect on its subsequent re-sale value because of its inability to easily navigate the entire network?

[Gary Peacock]

All your comments are greatly appreciated and have given me good food for thought.

 

I have one supplementary question:

 

Does having a boat longer than 57' have an adverse affect on its subsequent re-sale value because of its inability to easily navigate the entire network?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If it was over 60' it probably would but under that it won't make a lot of difference because the general consensus seems to be a 60' is feasible if not a bit troublesome.

 

Gary

[bottle]

I was planning a 57 but ran out of space so will go for 60 that extra 3ft will get a lot more in. It does not seem much but sit in an armchair and measure three feet to the front then laze in the chair. So three feet in the saloon could be more relaxing. In the bedroom more wardrobe space. In the bathroom, space for two, ideal for back washing?

In the galley another storage unit. three feet in the back cabin/engine room space for a utility area or any where in the length, a small bolt hole/office.

 

The limitations of length may stop me using some canals but I shall be living on board so I think the extra space will compensate, after all how often will I travel the "short lock canals"

[anne]

When we first started looking into having our boat built we were told that 57' was the best size to navigate the whole system. However once we started planning the interior we found we didn't have quite enough space to fit everything in that we wanted. We ended up plumping for a 58' (it gave us the extra space to fit in a washing machine in a small utility area in the engine room!) Last year we did the Huddersfield Canal and managed to go through the wide locks with another boat, although we did have to take the front fender off!

[DHutch]

When my grandad had EA built i know he went to considerable lenghts to work out the sizes he could have the boat, including many vists to locks and tunnels with a tape mesure. He has about 30/40 sides of A4 full of sizes and drawing of parts of the network, i and i *think* that in the end the boat ended up at 63ft, but i've never mesured it, and when i asked him, he was rather vage about it all.

 

- Next time i go to the boat i will mesure it, and bring home the book of canal mesurements.

 

daniel

[jmj]

Part of the Calder and Hebble and the Huddersfield Broad Canals have locks that were built to take Yorkshire keels and are only 57' 6" long. They are broad so it is possible to take a 60' narrowboat through them by putting the boat in diagonally across the lock.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If you can get a 57'6" keel in, then you can get a 57'6" +7' (width of one gate) narrow boat in by only opening one gate and shoving the boat across in order to close the other gate. (Maybe a bit less to allow for the angle of the bottom gate)

 

So that's 64'6" or thereabouts - don't try this at home folks, fenders and angles of dangle probably reduce this by a bit.

 

I don't think you can gain any more on this by putting it diagonally, as it won't swing past the mitre post on the bottom gate.

 

The diagonal of a 57'6" x 14' lock is about 59' (doing a very simple calculation) so a 60' NB would be a bit tight based on that. You certainly gain more from the 1 gate method than you do by the diagonal one.

[wynd lass(nb.Black Pearl)]

mebe is because it gives you the illusion of more room!

 

On some of the locks we had to really push hard to get her in and out(round) the lock gate..... wasn't nice really.....(60 foot boat).

[Sir Richard Head]

After a careful look at Nicholson's, it would seem to me that apart from the Calder & Hebble, the Huddersfield Broad and the canals north of York the rest of the network is pretty much do-able with a 60 footer with too much of a struggle.

 

For me space inside the boat is more important than those few restrictions, so I think that I'm going to stick with Plan 'A' and run with a 60' boat.

 

Off to the Equipment Forum now to glean some info on Inverters!

 

Grateful thanks for all the views expressed here which has been very useful.

[Amicus]

From George's

http://www.canals.com/canaldata.htm

[John Orentas]

You need to be a bit careful here, at times of water shortage you are likely to be prevented from using wide locks in the way that has been described. It is even possible that in the years to come the practise may be banned altogether. Alternatively BW may impose a punitive toll, after all if you are using double the water by not sharing they may argue you should pay double the cost.

[nbtafelberg]

We have a 70ft boat....

 

but when you live on board it really helps with the space.

[steveh]

Don't know if anyones interested I have uplaoded some photos that Sir Richard Head sent me of the Aqualine Manhatton boat he's purchasing and also i'm seriously considering. Please have a look tell any comments would be great

 

Doh

 

It would help if i'd put the link in

 

http://www.photobox.co.uk/album/1253343

Edited March 5, 2005 by steveh

[John Orentas]

Don't wish to sound too negative here, the joinery looks to be a high standard. But light wood floors, light wood walls, light wood deck-head, black stove with black tiled backing, perhaps a bit bland.

 

All a bit monochrome, dare I say a bit lacking in imagination and innovation.

Edited March 6, 2005 by John Orentas

[steveh]

Don't wish to sound too negative here, the joinery looks to be a high standard. But light wood floors, light wood walls, light wood deck-head, black stove with black tiled backing, perhaps a bit bland.

 

All a bit monochrome, dare I say a bit lacking in imagination and innovation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

The colours shown as just as example for the demo boat you can choose from a huge range. Exterior paint and all woodwork can be different all depends on what people like. I like the granite but wouldn't choose that colour for my boat.

 

Glad you like the carpenter. Just looking for the black tiles whereabouts about are they?

 

What you you think of the electrical compartment finishing? and alos the equipment shown, ie engine, inverter etc?

Edited March 6, 2005 by steveh

[Sir Richard Head]

Don't know if anyones interested I have uplaoded some photos that Sir Richard Head sent me of the Aqualine Manhatton boat he's purchasing and also i'm seriously considering. Please have a look tell any comments would be great

 

Steve,

 

I do hope that you'll be paying me commission on any sales of the photos I sent you!!

 

[steveh]

Steve,

 

I do hope that you'll be paying me commission on any sales of the photos I sent you!!

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Of course the usual 25%