morco troubleshooting please help

[lexicon]

So, that stop valve on the water tank - it is turned on fully...

 

Richard

Ermmm I don't have one of those

[RLWP]

Ermmm I don't have one of those

 

So, that's:

 

1. Good News!
2. Bad News!!!

Richard

[bizzard]

Might be worth trying to flush out the trouble, air, blockage-thrombosis. Start the engine to pep up the batteries. Turn on all hot taps, Turn up the controls on the Morco, doesn't need to be lit. Turn the pump on for a good while and watch a tap to see if any air splatters out. Failing that, for a good and powerful flush out, there should be a drain plug at the bottom of the Morco. Hold a pan underneath it, remove the plug and turn the pump on. Water should gush out under pressure, plus any air. Try and screw the plug back in whilst the pumps running. And relax. Test it.

Edited May 13, 2015 by bizzard

[bizzard]

Might be worth trying to flush out the trouble, air, blockage-thrombosis. Start the engine to pep up the batteries. Turn on all hot taps, Turn up the controls on the Morco, doesn't need to be lit. Turn the pump on for a good while and watch a tap to see if any air splatters out. Failing that, for a good and powerful flush out, there should be a drain plug at the bottom of the Morco. Hold a pan underneath it, remove the plug and turn the pump on. Water should gush out under pressure, plus any air. Try and screw the plug back in whilst the pumps running. And relax. Test it.

One other thing. If like the later Palomas the drain plug is also a fail safe safety valve which has a couple of wee O rings on it and if either of those O rings are damaged or missing the boiler will not light up properly, if at all.

Edited May 13, 2015 by bizzard

[lexicon]

Ok help.

Have taken the connection off the cold supply. Checked the filter and no blockage at base of unit.

 

Also subsequently taken off the hot connection. And put a standrd size tin can underneath.

When pump turned on no change in fire up behavior. Takes 10 count to fill can under hot connection on high flame setting.

13 count to fill tin on low flame setting.

[DeanS]

air in the system?

[lexicon]

Ok further test result for consideration. To fill a one pint bottle from the cold tap closest to pump takes a count of 23.

[MtB]

How long does it take you to count up to 23?!!

I'm inclined to guess that your flow rite is ok and the diaphragm in the water section has perished and ruptured. I suggest a new diaphragm is the next thing to try.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DIAPHRAGM-to-fit-Morco-D61-D51-G11-G110-static-caravan-lpg-gas-water-heaters-/161671957674?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item25a4664caa

 

Or a whole new water control assembly:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Water-Control-Assembly-Morco-LPG-Water-Heater-D61B-D61E-FW0163-NOT-D51-/181740876460?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a5099b2ac

 

(Quicker and far easier to replace.)

[lexicon]

Thanks mike.

So does the water control unit come off as shown and apart to replace diaphragm as If I can do it I think £40 saved would be worth it

[MtB]

Yes you take the water control assembly off so it is in your hand like the pic in my last post, then you undo the screws around the perimeter to split it in half and get to the black neoprene diaphragm. You may as well do this now before buying a new diaphragm and see if it is manky and perished. You are looking for a teeny tiny split of pin hole in the old one. Hold it up to the light and stretch it...

[smileypete]

IF all else fails I'd try running the heater off a mains standpipe with the outlet going straight into a bucket, check the inlet strainer while you're at it.

 

Ok further test result for consideration. To fill a one pint bottle from the cold tap closest to pump takes a count of 23.

 

That is not a lot, about a litre and a half a minute!

 

If there's an accumulator, it might just allow the heater to run for a few seconds until the accumulator empties.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited May 14, 2015 by smileypete

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

Check the tempreture sensor on the flue there will be two wires from it to the gas control. When the gas burns the sensor activates if no activation then gas gets turned off. If a wire comes off then it will activate the problem you describe.

[MtB]

Check the tempreture sensor on the flue there will be two wires from it to the gas control. When the gas burns the sensor activates if no activation then gas gets turned off. If a wire comes off then it will activate the problem you describe.

 

I don't think this is likely. The OP reports the pilot remaining alight.

 

Hi mike

Its a d61 with piezo ignition.

After the five seconds(ish) the pilot stays lit and the burner cuts out. But water (albeit cold) keeps coming out of the tap.

 

 

 

Disconnection/failure/tripping of the flue sensor (downdraft sensor) isolates the gas as you correctly say, but this would extinguish the pilot light too.

 

 

 

 

MtB

[lexicon]

So to update.

Water control unit removed and disassembled. Diaphragm ik no damage.

 

Further thought does anyone know of the top of their head if the fitting kit pipe is a standard 15mm? As I'm thinking of buying a connection to fit to a hose pipe to the bottom inlet on boiler. Go to water point and connect hose and run a test with the higher flow of a tap if it fires up then I know its flow rate in.

How does that sound to the board

[RLWP]

Perhaps you could do a flow test on the pump first. Rather than counting, has your 'phone or computer got a clock? And I'm pretty sure you'll have something on the boat of an known volume - a milk bottle perhaps

 

Richard

[lexicon]

Hi Richard

Checked my count against a clock and is accurate to a second or two.

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

On the Paloma the flue sensor mesured the temprture of the flue gasses, I do not think the pilot light is not hot enough to trigger it.

[lexicon]

Well it seems it is definitely a flow rate issue.

So investigation of pipping where I Changed it and some tidying up then if that doesn't work a higher flow rate pump.

[smileypete]

Ta for the update.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[lexicon]

Don't suppose anyone knows the size of the fixing that goes behind the temperature control knob?

[lexicon]

Ok so time for an update.

I'm getting really stressed with this boiler now.

Have put in new pipes to replace and tidy up the connections in. That didn't work so now have replaced with 11ltr a minute pump. And still not working fully. Slightly more run time but not fully.

Now here is the question, would a hole that cant be seen in the diaphragm work with high pressure from tap but not a lower pressure water pump ?

Any other suggestions?

[bizzard]

Ok so time for an update.

I'm getting really stressed with this boiler now.

Have put in new pipes to replace and tidy up the connections in. That didn't work so now have replaced with 11ltr a minute pump. And still not working fully. Slightly more run time but not fully.

Now here is the question, would a hole that cant be seen in the diaphragm work with high pressure from tap but not a lower pressure water pump ?

Any other suggestions?

Have you tried cleaning and probing the pilot and main gas jets?

[smileypete]

Ok so time for an update.

I'm getting really stressed with this boiler now.

Have put in new pipes to replace and tidy up the connections in. That didn't work so now have replaced with 11ltr a minute pump. And still not working fully. Slightly more run time but not fully.

Now here is the question, would a hole that cant be seen in the diaphragm work with high pressure from tap but not a lower pressure water pump ?

Any other suggestions?

 

Exactly what changes did you make that seemed to cause the problem in the first place?

 

So we know the heater inlet strainer is OK and the pump being new is very likely to be OK.

 

Can the flow directly from the pump outlet be measured by running it into a bucket for a minute? This would eliminate possible blockages or restrictions between tank and pump, it should normally be around 10 to 11 litres per minute.

 

ETA: To answer your question, with the temperature control on high, the output from the heater should be 2.4 litres/min. And with the temperature control on low the output from the heater should be 5.7 litres a minute. Could be useful to measure these into a bucket to see if they're any different.

 

One of your earlier posts showed the flow from the cold tap was fairly poor, so it seems likely that the problem is a water supply issue, particularly as it started after work was done on the water system.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited May 30, 2015 by smileypete

[MtB]

Lex, I still think you have a dodgy water control section.

 

I've ordered a new one for my stock so when it arrives I'll call in and we can fit it to yours as an experiment. See if it fixes it, or not.

 

If it fixes it then you can have it at cost, or we can try fixing yours with a new diaphragm. Did you get/try a new diaphragm (I don't remember you saying)?

 

 

MtB

[MtB]

Lex, are you still having trouble with this water heater?

 

I have the water section now. Could drop by at some stage over the next few days.