CRT website interactive maps - Horrible

[jelunga]

I wonder if there are enough people interested in working with CRT to solve this problem? I doubt CRT have much resource to do the work, and there is a massive amount of knowledge in the boating community

 

Richard

It came about with the move from Waterscape to CRT web site. I did offer to help work on this but the offer was declined. The comment was they would consider restoring then if enough people complained / asked.

So we all need to comment. I think the person to send emails to is Odette Myall at odette.myall@canalrivertrust.org.uk

Edited June 13, 2014 by jelunga

[Robbo]

 

Canalplan has facilities and each place shows the nearest facilities to it, and how to get there. but its only based on what data is in there.

 

We did look at stoppages but the completely random mess of noise from the BW (and CaRT) stoppages emails makes it just about impossible to do.. For example they will send out tons of closure emails about fallen trees but the "reopen" emails don't follow any pattern and often aren't easily linkable to the closure even they relate to. Thus Canalplan ends up with a lot of orphaned closures littering the system

 

This part of the site should be scrapeable (linky) - although would have to see the website T&C's too see if okay. Would be best to request something formal.

 

Must check out canalplan again, didn't think it showed services like shower blocks / pump outs, etc.

[john6767]

The second one is something to do with printing Google maps, except how do you show the information that is contained in each icon on the map?

 

Richard

I was thinking more that you would print out the information in tabular form, rather than printing the map.

[RLWP]

I was thinking more that you would print out the information in tabular form, rather than printing the map.

 

That sounds more sensible

 

Richard

[youthoftoday]

Apart from anything else there are bugs. If you visit http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/in-your-area and open the JavaScript console it's littered with error messages. There were two agencies involved in creating the site. The one whose logo you can find at the bottom-right of the page did the design but not the implementation. Your best bet is contacting CRT directly.

 

CRT if you're reading this: The data you fetch contains a "booking" identifier but you expect "bookinginfo". There are also other errors.

 

Who knows how much info they intend to show on a map but which isn't being shown?

[Robbo]

I was thinking more that you would print out the information in tabular form, rather than printing the map.

 

I like the wikipedia format - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Aire_and_Calder_Navigation_map, although prefer it if it didn't show the multiple sections in the same table. I may look into using these and create wiki pages per canal, adding boat services into it as well.

[RLWP]

I wonder if this is something that CRT as a charity could allow volunteers to take on

 

Richard

 

I like the wikipedia format - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Aire_and_Calder_Navigation_map, although prefer it if it didn't show the multiple sections in the same table. I may look into using these and create wiki pages per canal, adding boat services into it as well.

 

They are nice - I wonder what the source of the data is and who created the linear maps?

 

Richard

[Robbo]

 

They are nice - I wonder what the source of the data is and who created the linear maps?

 

 

Guessing it's these guys... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_UK_Waterways

[RLWP]

That can't be right, it includes Dave Mayall!: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mayalld

 

 

Richard

[andy3196]

Have you (generally) tried http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/directory , which does give a text listing of services. Some info on VM etc seems incomplete, but I never trusted the old guides totally as they didn't always agree with reality.

[john6767]

Have you (generally) tried http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/directory , which does give a text listing of services. Some info on VM etc seems incomplete, but I never trusted the old guides totally as they didn't always agree with reality.

Not seen that before, but it fails my "Coventry Basin" test in that is does not tell me what the time limit on the visitor moorings are! Clearly the data presented is only every as good as the database behind it.

[Robbo]

What I think boaters would like is something like the wikipedia maps I linked too but with..

• Moorings
• Services (Split into Elsan, Showers, Toilets, Bins, Pump Out, Diesel, etc).
• Stoppages
• Timings.

[PeteS]

Slighty off topic but how do you get to the http://canalrivertru...rg.uk/directory from the home page on the C&RT. I've checked everywhere even the site map and I can't find it

[andy3196]

Slighty off topic but how do you get to the http://canalrivertru...rg.uk/directory from the home page on the C&RT. I've checked everywhere even the site map and I can't find it

I can't remember where I originally heard of it. And have never really had use for it, as I just drift about and use services when I come across them. Just remembered it existed and used the search box.

 

If people do think it's useful, maybe they should ask CRT to make it easier to find.

[Timleech]

I can't remember where I originally heard of it. And have never really had use for it, as I just drift about and use services when I come across them. Just remembered it existed and used the search box.

 

If people do think it's useful, maybe they should ask CRT to make it easier to find.

 

It's certainly more useful than the bl****y map!

 

Tim

[PeteS]

Looks like another question for the leader

 

"Why does the site map not show everything?"

 

I think I'd better start a list

[StephenA]

 

This part of the site should be scrapeable (linky) - although would have to see the website T&C's too see if okay. Would be best to request something formal.

 

Must check out canalplan again, didn't think it showed services like shower blocks / pump outs, etc.

 

We've got the data - I coded up a great bit of code to parse emails and handle them. The problem is that not only do they send out huge numbers of very short term closures (tree blocking canal) but the navigation cleared messages don't always follow a good format, or they come in with a misleading category of worse of all they don't come in at all. Scraping that page wouldn't help us much at all as we'd still have to work out what has vanished from the listings.

 

And on that page is a prime example of the problem:

 

 

Both of those are actually the same message - which actually is:

 

\

 

And the ONLY email that was sent was this

[with the subject Navigation closure notice: Trent & Mersey Canal, Middlewich Branch (Shrop Union Canal)]

 

 

Notice Alert

Intersection of:

 

Lock 74 to Lock 74 on Trent & Mersey Canal

 

and

 

Lock 1, Wardle Lock to Lock 1, Wardle Lock on Middlewich Branch (Shrop Union Canal)

Friday 13 June 2014 until Friday 13 June 2014 18:00

Type: Navigation Closure

Reason: Inspection

Update on 13/06/2014:

The obstruction has been removed and the navigation is now open.

Update on 13/06/2014:

Navigation is still closed due to the obstruction

Original message:

Navigation is closed at lock 74, Middlewich, due to an obstruction in the lock

A further update will be posted this afternoon

You can view this notice and its map online here:

http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/notice/1210/lock-74-middlewich

You can find all notices at the url below:

http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/notices

Please do not reply to the email. It has been automatically generated.

To unsubscribe from this service please go to: http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/my-trust/notices and uncheck the relevant box.

Reply, Reply All or Forward | More\

So what we have is a message saying its a closure when it fact it is a notice of end of closure. The only place where it says the canal is open is in the update :

"The obstruction has been removed and the navigation is now open."

Edited June 13, 2014 by StephenA

[RLWP]

Now, that sounds manageable - agreeing a format and a process for emails. Both would benefit all boaters anyway as the emails would be clear, and there would always be a notification that the stoppage had ended

 

Richard

[Timleech]

Slighty off topic but how do you get to the http://canalrivertru...rg.uk/directory from the home page on the C&RT. I've checked everywhere even the site map and I can't find it

 

I've looked as well, they'll probably delete the page now that it's been publicised!

 

Thought I might have found something useful when looking for information for the Leeds & Liverpool when I came across

"Download our free guide to Leeds, Skipton and Bingley's waterways", but it's just a jumbled information sheet for casual visitors, and includes Standedge tunnel, which is miles away from any of those towns and on a completely different canal.

It does make you wonder who is in charge of their emissions

 

Tim

[Richard Fairhurst]

I wonder if there are enough people interested in working with CRT to solve this problem?

 

I'm certainly interested in talking to CRT about fixing it, and I built the original Boaters' Guides back on ye olde Waterscape all those years ago!

[Timleech]

 

I'm certainly interested in talking to CRT about fixing it, and I built the original Boaters' Guides back on ye olde Waterscape all those years ago!

 

Are CRT prepared to accept that the present offering is NBG?

 

Tim

[PeteS]

Update from the meeting with Richard Parry.

 

He agreed that the maps were not up to standard and this had been confirmed by what other boaters had said. He intimated that they would be changed to be more useful and that he intended asking co-opting boaters on to get their views and assistance.

 

Somebody suggested that the data could be incorporated in the information canalplanner gives users, but I think he was a little averse to this stating that C&RT could not be seen to favour one external group/body over another. I thought that this was a good idea as all that C&RT would have to do was to make their data available to anybody who wanted it.

 

I think that the days of the good old pdf download have gone

[Pete & Helen]

Update from the meeting with Richard Parry.

 

He agreed that the maps were not up to standard and this had been confirmed by what other boaters had said. He intimated that they would be changed to be more useful and that he intended asking co-opting boaters on to get their views and assistance.

 

Somebody suggested that the data could be incorporated in the information canalplanner gives users, but I think he was a little averse to this stating that C&RT could not be seen to favour one external group/body over another. I thought that this was a good idea as all that C&RT would have to do was to make their data available to anybody who wanted it.

 

I think that the days of the good old pdf download have gone

 

Thanks for the update, at least they are accepting that the maps and information needs to be more user friendly and more informative. I have a few but wish I had downloaded more of the PDF's while they were available. Wonder if we could get a repository where anyone with any of the PDF's could drop them in for the rest?

[Psycloud]

I had a look at the map and the first thing I clicked on was this:

http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/volunteering/opportunity/OPP0000633/fenny-stratford-lock-work-parties

 

Is this 3 months out of date or 9 months early? :/

 

EDIT My calendar tells me 3 months out of date.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Psycloud

[Guest]

Thanks for the update, at least they are accepting that the maps and information needs to be more user friendly and more informative. I have a few but wish I had downloaded more of the PDF's while they were available. Wonder if we could get a repository where anyone with any of the PDF's could drop them in for the rest?

One of the reasons the PDF versions were good was because they were updated with stoppage and other information. Using archived or old versions will mean they are not up to date.

 

The new interactive version is similarly updated but being next to useless means it pointless.

 

Using the old PDF,s not updated is not really any different to using a Nicholsons or Persons guide.

 

For me they should just scrap the current version, revert to the old PDF's and if they really want to have an interactive system develop one with boaters alongside who can properly user test it using various devices and download speeds, not many have a fast cable broadband set up on a boat which is pretty much what you need to get the current setup any where near usable.