Turning sharp bends

[grunders]

A couple of years back, we were cruising on the River Wey. On the way back to the Thames, I was steering the boat. Coming up to a sharp right hand bend, people on the bows started shouting 'boat!'

 

This was one of those sharp bends you really only get on rivers although there are some on the canals. Anyway, I got a bit flustered (if I'm honest) on seeing the bows of this narrowboat come round the bend and me, more or less heading for those bows.

 

I had been trying to take the corner wide so as not to hit the bottom on the inside, plus there was a tree in the way, and this obviously put me on the left of the bend, the wrong side.

 

Anyway, I felt I had two options. Either forget steering and put her astern and quickly or try to steer more sharply round the bend. I opted for the former after trying the steering bit (didn't seem to be working very well).

 

I did manage to slow the boat down but we still crashed into the other boat at a bit of an angle. I apologised profusely and the other boat was understanding and didn't seem too bothered - I love bow fenders! (Not an excuse to go crashing into other boats though, I know!)

 

I am now put off steering round sharp bends because of the dilemma of where to be in the navigation e.g. left, middle or right, especially when turning the right-handers. Left hand bends are OK since you just take them, reasonably, as wide as possible.

 

So the question really is, how do people cope with sharp right hand bends and what would be your course of action if a boat was coming towards you which you hadn't spotted due to the corner? Any thoughts...

[John Orentas]

Yes I think most of us have found ourselves in that situation. A bit like riding a motorcycle you can either take the corner or brake hard. But you can't do both.

 

It usually comes down to damage limitation, normally full astern, come to a stop then worry about how to get out of the problem. Often too it can be much easier to pass on the 'wrong' side in this situation, we should not be over concerned about doing that, just give a very clear signal of what you are going to do.

 

Always a good guide, as with sailing boats, whatever you do 'Be decisive'.

[Serendipity]

For me, dead slow, soud horn for two seconds, keep well right on a right hander, speed up part way round to kick the stern out.

 

Amazes me how many don't bother with the horn on a blind right angle turn near our base.

[DHutch]

Yes I think most of us have found ourselves in that situation...

Yeah, and its really tough one.

- Beucase you have to go one side or the other, and time is short, and you have to make a decision, and...

 

I think one of the key things is to be wise after the event. Did you really have to be in that situation in the first place?

- If you knew it was a sharp inside bend, and you could see the tree. Why didnt you slow down?

- And you have to constantly aware that there could always be a boat round the next bend. Usally wont be, but the just might!

- Like contry roads, i could rally round the rounds near our house at 60 most of the time, taking the racing line, and only lifting when i fell the back end start to get a little happy. But i dont, because i never know when im going to come face-to-face with a loaded milk tanker doing 20 towards me!

 

Im not trying to be smart, any one can be wise after the event. But it is serously worth thinking about that the time.

- I 'T-boned' a boat at a sharp bend at the end of last summer. Its really the first time ive ever actually properly hit a boat.

- And it wasnt really becuase it was a sharp bend (although, it is a very shape 90degreere onto a aquaduct), but it was because we wanted to get the boat to stone, and where rushing to get there before the day was out. And also, the reverser linkage was in the process of falling apart (which would have been looked at, had we not been in a rush..), and when it came to crunch time, i could only get it half into reverse, so there was no power at all.

 

The number one tip in NBing, is that if your not sure, slow down. You can always speed up again, and when you do, you will get a short surge of extra stearage way.

 

 

As for the what to do in the situation, as disscust, you have two option. Slam it into reverse, or wind it right up, and jam the rudder hard over!

 

No one can tell you what you should have done, but the things that would have been running though my head at the time would have been.

- How fast am i going? How much many more rev's have i got to go at?

- Which bend is it, left hand, or right hand? How tightly can the boat turn that way?

- Had the other person seen ME yet? How is he going to react? Do i need to sound off to alert him?

 

Its well worth being aware of your boats ability as well.

- Emilyanne steers like a bit of a dog. But, she really does turn if you whack the revs up, espcically to the left. (right hand prop).

- And you do have to have confidence in what you doing. That ones thing thats very noticeable between someone like my mum, who stears the boat maybe 3days a year, and me, who stears for about 15hours a year.

- When faced with the above dilemar, i look at athe problem, and 1/2seconds later, ive made a destion, and gone with it to the best of my ablity. My mum sees the boat, sees the problem, panics for 6seconds, and then puts it into reverse...

 

Theres far more to it than that, but theres a few thoughts on the subject... *stands back and waits*

 

 

 

Daniel

[grunders]

Slowing down seems to be the main thing, and that is a good idea - don't know why I didn't do it at the time actually...

 

After having the experience, I think I have learnt from it and like you said Daniel:

 

'...you have to constantly aware that there could always be a boat round the next bend. Usally wont be, but the just might!'

 

I'm also glad that it's not just me that has hit a boat because of a corner, I guess that's why people are so understanding, especially when it's obvious that you've tried to avoid the collision.

 

Horn's always used for those sharp bend into bridge hole situations where there's only gonna be room for 1 boat but I will definitely consider it for sharp corners as well now.

 

Thanks everyone! Any more stories/suggestions welcome.

[John Orentas]

I'm not sure slowing down is the answer, you just loose steerage at the time when it is most needed. I tend to use the horn more than most others.

 

But I am always a bit surprised at the inability of many boats to come to a stop in a reasonable distance, clouds of smoke, a lot of noise but not much action.

Edited November 24, 2006 by John Orentas

[tomsk]

I'm not sure slowing down is the answer, you just loose steerage at the time when it is most needed. I tend to use the horn more than most others.

 

But I am always a bit surprised at the inability of many boats to come to a stop in a reasonable distance, clouds of smoke, a lot of noise but not much action.

 

 

Underpowered lumps....I s*** 'em

[grunders]

I'm not sure slowing down is the answer, you just loose steerage at the time when it is most needed. I tend to use the horn more than most others.

 

But I am always a bit surprised at the inability of many boats to come to a stop in a reasonable distance, clouds of smoke, a lot of noise but not much action.

 

 

The trouble with Beatty is that if you wind her up too much in reverse, the clutch, or something, I don't know what - not much of a mechanic - slips, meaning you get less reverse thrust.

 

Slowing down while your approaching the corner so that you're going slowly when you get there and then putting on the power is supposed to be quite effective giving better steerage etc.

[Yoda]

I cannot comment on what to do as I wasn't there but all I can say is keep a lookout.

[tomsk]

I cannot comment on what to do as I wasn't there but all I can say is keep a lookout.

 

 

Profound stuff, you crazy off-worlder

Edited November 24, 2006 by tomsk

[Alistair]

A couple of years back, we were cruising on the River Wey. On the way back to the Thames, I was steering the boat. Coming up to a sharp right hand bend, people on the bows started shouting 'boat!'

 

 

Any thoughts...

 

Well for a start I'd wonder about the efficacy of shouting 'boat' when the helmsman can't hear anything because of the noise of the engine.

 

I've successfully used (and taught crew members) a simple sign language to tell the helmsman what's happening round the corner:

 

Nothing coming: thumb and forefinger in a circle - the universal 'OK' sign

 

Something coming: stick hand in the air, make sure the helmsman notices, then point to it.

 

Two things coming: stick two fingers up (the polite way round, please) then point to both in turn, nearest one first.

 

Extrapolate.

 

Meanwhile stationary things don't get pointed out - as the helmsman should be able to see and avoid them anyway.

 

I've used this all over the twisty bits of the Upper Thames and never had a problem.

 

Your mileage may vary, of course...

[Serendipity]

Slowing down while your approaching the corner so that you're going slowly when you get there

 

That's the key to maintaining steerage which is given primarily by the thrust of water over the rudder from the prop. Slow the prop, and untill the speed of the hull through the water has reduced, there is less of a proportion of flow from the now reduced prop flow over the rudder. As the boat slows, then this proportionate flow increases so regaining steerage. So allways slow in good time!

[Liam]

Thought I'd add my bit..

 

You're coming upto a blind bend with a bridge. You've already slowed down as it's common sense to do that when you can't see where you're going! You get lined up for the bridge and then you're able to see someone else has done the same.

 

I too often see the other boat slam it into reverse and rev the arse off it, and as john says, alot of smoke, alot of noise and no action. Nine times out of 10 the other boat will just carry on going, slowling just a little, whilst the back end kicks out - as John says alot of smoke, a lot of noise but no action.

 

When I'm in this position I'd swing the tiller to straighten the boat up again whilst still going ahead and then slowly reverse to slow right down or even stop the boat. If you need to stop quickly, I find short sharp blasts of reverse is better than just slamming it into reverse and watching the boat go all over.

 

I'v driven alsorts of boats ranging from a 17" cruiser to a Leeds Liverpool Longboat, and the following applies for all of them..... You put it in reverse and it may stop in a boats length if you're lucky, but swinging the tiller and putting the revs on swings the bows away (or towards) where you want to go alot more quickly and also slows the boat anyway.

 

I foolishly cruised northwards along the Trent & Mersey from Middlewich towards Dutton on a Saturday afternoon as there's 3 hire bases around there and all of the hire boats just stuck into reverse, which means although they were slowing down, just carried on in a straight line when going round corners instead of getting the revs up and pushing the tiller over avoiding wasting time.

[Hairy-Neil]

And also, the reverser linkage was in the process of falling apart (

 

You mean you have a engine/reverse linkage controls accessable from the steering position on EA?

 

Both President and Adamant are controlled from the engine room and the steerer is linked to the engineer by a bell signals.

[DHutch]

I'm not sure slowing down is the answer, you just loose steerage at the time when it is most needed.

Slow down WELL BEFORE the bend.

- Then, your going slower, less momentum, more time to thing.

- THEN, when you get to the bend, if you need to, you can really open it up, and get that huge burst of stearage to power round the corner. Works for us anyway!

 

I tend to use the horn more than most others.

Yeah, ditto!

- Partly because we just love the sound of our own voice, but also, its SOOoooo usefull.

- If you approaching a bridge of a blind bend, theres nothing better than a quick toot to let anyone who might be there know.

- And, and this is the REALLY clever bit, if there IS someone there, THEY can sound there horn in reply. then you BOTH know!!

 

Unfortuatly, i seams few people feel that way back!

- The number of time ive sounded off on the approach to a bridge/bend. Then hurd nothing back, and carryed on, only to find a boat just round the corner. WHATS WITH THAT????

[DHutch]

You mean you have a engine/reverse linkage controls accessable from the steering position on EA?

I KNOW!!

- How mind bogglingly revolutionary is that.

- Fantastic i say! Deisals boats have been doing it for 40years, so why the hell not.

 

Im sure theres some purests that would have a fit, but at the end of the day, shes her own boat, and thats how we do it.

- Origanaly the helm only had control of the regulator, via a wheel aranment. With reverse needing an 'engineer' and a plathera of shouting to spin an enigne-mounted revering wheel, which was about 35 turns lock-to-lock!

- However, about five years in, the current system was installed, giveing the helmsman both regulator and reverser at the wheel. Using a pair of floor mounted leavers, which operate very much like those you might find in a signalbox. These then remotely operate the regualtor valve and valvegear. With a small by-pass valve for warming the engine from the enigneroom.

 

 

Daniel

[David Schweizer]

When I skippered a Trip boat on the K&A, our regular trip took us across the Avoncliffe Aqueduct and back, this involved two right angle bends into a 15ft channel with buildings alongside obstructing the view. A great deal of time was spent in training new captains to undertake this both efficiently and safely. We were also tested on this maouvre by the Board of Trade Examiners.

 

The proceedure was to approach the bend in the middle of the canal, slowing down to the point that the boat would go no slower, drop the engine into neutral and proceed at a snails pace. 30 yards before the bend a four second blast on the horn and listen for a response. Re-engage forward and proceed , turning the boat gently into the bend, when the bow was level with the inside of the bend push the rudder hard over and put on substantial power, this would throw the stern round and bring the boat into line with the narrow channel, power was then dropped and the boat proceeded at a normal speed until the secon bend where the proceedure was repeated.

 

In all the time I worked on that boat, neither I nor any of the other captains either grounded the boat or hit another boat, but we witnessed lots of others managing to do both.

[Carrie]

Hi Grunders

I agree that taking things slowly can help in the first place, but if you find yourself in that situation, I suggest you actually increase speed a little and paddle with wide, vigourous sweeps of the tiller, in the direction you want to head in, obviously. It can get you out of tricky situations really fast.

[Hairy-Neil]

 

- Fantastic i say! Deisals boats have been doing it for 40years, so why the hell not.

 

Daniel

 

I'd say diesel boats have had direct control since their introduction, so maybe more like 90 years.

 

The early diesels like Bolinders didn't have a reverse gear, the engine was rigged so it would run backwards just like a steamer. I've heard that some boatmen didn't trust the set up and would strap the boat to stop it leaving the prop turning forwards on tick over rather than risk the engine stopping .

[crosser]

i think i will have a mini remote camera fitted at the front of our 70ft'r .... i was joking but now ive said it it dont sound such a bad idea... i will add that to my inventory....

[grunders]

i think i will have a mini remote camera fitted at the front of our 70ft'r .... i was joking but now ive said it it dont sound such a bad idea... i will add that to my inventory....

 

I've always thought that's a good idea, especially if you're the only one on board.

[DHutch]

Ahhh, what is the world comming to?

- You'll be fitting bowthrusters and colour Tv next!!

 

 

 

Daniel

[Yoda]

i think i will have a mini remote camera fitted at the front of our 70ft'r .... i was joking but now ive said it it dont sound such a bad idea... i will add that to my inventory....

 

Most of what you can see on the front of any size boat is what you can see from the back. Looking around bends requires a bit of hanging off the front sides, so back to square one. Try it you will see what I mean!

[chris w]

The trouble with Beatty is that if you wind her up too much in reverse, the clutch, or something, I don't know what - not much of a mechanic - slips, meaning you get less reverse thrust.

If the engine is put into reverse with full revs immediately, the propellor "slips" and can't get a grip on the water. It's more effective to put it in reverse and apply revs in a more gradual manner. Analogous to tyres spinning on a wet road (or even a dry one, given enough revs).

 

Chris

[Neil@CanalVoyagers]