CRT Show Anti Continuous Cruiser Hand

[Higgs]

 

Aww, that was going to be my question. Great minds think alike.

 

I would hate to think that if I lived in Lancaster and the only available winter mooring in a marina was in Birmingham, that I would have to get my boat down there. Many marinas are full now, even in the summer. What would winter bring if everyone had to come in from the cold?

 

 

 

It would be a ludicrous state of affair and a sop to marinas.

[Timleech]

 

The reference to the British Mooring Federation, moaning about the unfair competition over the 'facilities' of cheap winter moorings undercutting the private sector is possibly a competitions monopoly rod for CRT, but I think it is more than equally unfair of the private marinas, etc, to try and force boaters into marinas. The two types of mooring are very different in what they can provide.

 

The British Mooring Federation's moan is them crying wolf. I don't see why CRT feel that they are under any pressure, winter moorings can be rough and ready affairs. Boaters should not be forced, unfairly, into marinas for the winter, pushed into supporting marinas and taking funds away from CRT.

 

 

 

They (Winter mooring rules) can be seen as discriminatory against people with a home mooring, who want or need to leave their boat away from home for a winter. It seems that they will be forced into marinas or other private moorings.

 

Tim

[Higgs]

 

They (Winter mooring rules) can be seen as discriminatory against people with a home mooring, who want or need to leave their boat away from home for a winter. It seems that they will be forced into marinas or other private moorings.

 

Tim

 

 

I don't think CRT have been getting the uptake they wanted, and their winter moorings haven't been attracting capacity. It looks like a deal with the Moorings Federation. CRT can't do anything with the CC'ers, who have leave to remain on the cut. The home moorers may be sacrificial.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Higgs

[john6767]

 

 

I don't think CRT have been getting the uptake they wanted, and their winter moorings haven't been attracting capacity. It looks like a deal with the Moorings Federation. CRT can't do anything with the CC'ers, who have leave to remain on the cut. The home moorers may be sacrificial.

If they want to stop people giving up a marina mooring to take one of these permits up, then I would agree that is to protect marina businesses, but why can someone with a home mooring not take out a winter mooring permit as well if they choose to do so.

[Higgs]

If they want to stop people giving up a marina mooring to take one of these permits up, then I would agree that is to protect marina businesses, but why can someone with a home mooring not take out a winter mooring permit as well if they choose to do so.

 

If you're on their books as a home moorer, they simply won't give you one.

[john6767]

 

If you're on their books as a home moorer, they simply won't give you one.

Yes, but the question was why not it you want one.

[Timleech]

 

If you're on their books as a home moorer, they simply won't give you one.

 

Yes it seems that is what they have decided, under pressure from others. I haven't a clue how many people it might affect, probably not many, but I can see the potential for another source of resentment from some, if they end up paying for two marina moorings (home & away) while others have access to one cheap (ish) towpath mooring.

 

Tim

Yes, but the question was why not it you want one.

 

You have to read the link for their (feeble IMO) explanation.

[john6767]

 

You have to read the link for their (feeble IMO) explanation.

Yes I have read that, but that reasoning there is about protecting the income of marinas and not competing, by allowing people to give up a marina mooring in the winter and taking up a winter permit. That is not what I am saying, why should you not be able to take out a winter mooring permit, in addition to having a home mooring if I want to. That is not impacting marina businesses income.

[Timleech]

Yes I have read that, but that reasoning there is about protecting the income of marinas and not competing, by allowing people to give up a marina mooring in the winter and taking up a winter permit. That is not what I am saying, why should you not be able to take out a winter mooring permit, in addition to having a home mooring if I want to. That is not impacting marina businesses income.

 

It seems to be what has been decreed from on high. I don't follow the logic either.

I suppose the marinas can say it's impacting their potential for income. I don't imagine there to be a massive demand for winter moorings away from home, especially at full marina rates.

Try asking them?

 

Tim

Edited September 1, 2013 by Timleech

[Higgs]

Every marina mooring is money, some money, in CRT's pocket. CRT have suggested the BMF is on their back, because of winter moorings. If CRT provide all and sundry with a winter mooring, it will continue to rub up the BMF. It could be a compromise to make it impossible for some of those out on the cut to get a winter mooring permit.

 

All of those out on the cut do not take up winter permit moorings, as CRT would probably like. From their sightings and records, CRT can see roughly how many home moorers may be out there. The other thing to throw in are those who state home mooring, but 'never' use it. Clamping down.

[Naughty Cal]

 

Aww, that was going to be my question. Great minds think alike.

 

I would hate to think that if I lived in Lancaster and the only available winter mooring in a marina was in Birmingham, that I would have to get my boat down there. Many marinas are full now, even in the summer. What would winter bring if everyone had to come in from the cold?

But they wouldn't force you into a marina. You can still cruise during the winter. You just need to plan your route around planned stoppages.

[DeanS]

I havent read this entire thread, but get the jist(jyst, gyst...how DO you spell that) of it.

 

Let's look at the reality of the situation.

 

CRT have a growing problem. People moving into boats because they THINK it's a cheap way of life...and overusing the facilities, VMs etc. This is possibly a bigger problem in London than any where else, but CRT are seeing the problem as a nationwide problem. Boaters who sign up for a licence and have a home mooring, are the ones CRT DONT normally have to worry about, as I'm sure CRT see this group as "good boaters". The CC-er group, in CRT's eyes, is probably the group where most of the "problems" come from....CC-ers who dont navigate the system....and bridge hop. This view of boaters at CRT will never change, because the CC-er licenced boaters group will always be the group CRT are trying to reduce. I'm sure they dont want to stop legitimate CC-ers, and IF you are a legitimate CC-er, you will probably find that you will NEVER have any serious CRT issues. You WILL however, always feel the pressure of being WATCHED. This is what is unfair, but unfortunately CRT is under pressure from many boater associations to reduce the number of NCC-ers. (Non Continuous Cruisers).

 

As a CC-er you have a choice. You either live with the pressure of CRT "watching you"., or simply IGNORE IT and enjoy your legitimate boating.

[Higgs]

But they wouldn't force you into a marina. You can still cruise during the winter. You just need to plan your route around planned stoppages.

 

CRT should have no problem with that.

[Naughty Cal]

 

CRT should have no problem with that.

No but some seem to be posting as though they do and will be forced into a marina or winter mooring which isn't right.

[Higgs]

No but some seem to be posting as though they do and will be forced into a marina or winter mooring which isn't right.

 

It certainly isn't a relaxed policy. Those who CC are not particularly in the firing line. Those that don't want to necessarily cruise in the winter but have a home mooring are being forced into having a few basic alternatives. Staying put, on the cut, isn't one of them.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Higgs

[onionbargee]

CRT are against constant cruisers ! I am shocked !!

[DHutch]

That's put me in my place!!

 

Indeed!

[DeanS]

Actually they are offering more (in terms of winter moorings)

 

If you are a CC-er and get "frozen in"... do you have to stash some money in your mattress in case a CRT enforcement office knocks on the boat and says...."do you have a permit to be moored here for 5 months?"

 

If the answer is NO, then yes CRT are offering CC-ers an extra voluntary option for winter.

If the answer is YES then the winter mooring permit is a method for CRT to extract more money from boaters.

[Timleech]

Frozen in for 5 months?

I doubt it.

 

Tim

[NBDensie]

If you are a CC-er and get "frozen in"... do you have to stash some money in your mattress in case a CRT enforcement office knocks on the boat and says...."do you have a permit to be moored here for 5 months?"

 

If the answer is NO, then yes CRT are offering CC-ers an extra voluntary option for winter.

If the answer is YES then the winter mooring permit is a method for CRT to extract more money from boaters.

I think and hope you will find that in the event of a freeze-in or circumstance such as a major break-down preventing movement CRT will be reasonable. But it seems to me its not just an extra voluntary option. Its the clear removal of, and the provision of a reasonable paid-for alternative to, the current de facto option of simply staying put for the winter on any mooring which happens to take your fancy.

[DeanS]

Frozen in for 5 months?

I doubt it.

 

Tim

 

ok.....3 months.

[Timleech]

 

ok.....3 months.

 

Three months would be very unusual.

 

They do make some allowance for winter weather:-

 

"

• Exceptions to these rules will be made in the event of persistent ice and snow.

BUT

 

 

• Boaters are expected to plan their moorings taking account of published winter works programme and associated stoppages."

Tim

[RickH]

I find it interesting that some are reading this as an insult. I don't read it as one.

 

Methinks some people worry too much:)

I think you''re right , the proposed winter moorings are not as bad as I thought at first and they are being offered solely to cc'ers , the word "exploit" maybe should be replaced by "enjoyed" . Ultimately who is it that the paragraph concerns , all cc'ers and yes , we do exploit that clause , some more than others .

[Jigsawged]

I havent read this entire thread, but get the jist(jyst, gyst...how DO you spell that) of it.

 

Right first time Dean.

[NigelMoore]

 

Three months would be very unusual.

 

They do make some allowance for winter weather:-

 

"

• Exceptions to these rules will be made in the event of persistent ice and snow.

BUT

• Boaters are expected to plan their moorings taking account of published winter works programme and associated stoppages."

Tim

 

From the CART website on then pending cases:

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/125138/response/332309/attach/html/4/List%20of%20Court%20Cases.pdf.html

 

Boat Index/Name: 60622 “Pearl” ; Customer: Geoffrey Mayers ; Chester County Court; Enforcement Area: Nth

 

This has since been to trial I believe, with judgment awaited. So far as I understand, it concerned a boat told to move on while iced in for some time during December a couple of years ago. So, while details won’t be published until a sealed judgment is handed down, a note of caution needs to be inserted here; don’t be too confident that the quoted exceptions will be applied in all cases.