Ex-Dartline info wanted.

[Laurie St Lyon]

As the time draws closer for my ex to sell the house and let me have some dosh comes closer I have gone from purposeful browsing and and info gathering to "Could I live on this boat?".

 

Am seriously looking at an ex hire boat called Sphynx http://www.norburywharfltd.co.uk/boats-for-sale/

 

I would hav to move the inside about a bit to get it as I want it but can do that in stages. My immediate concern is that it says "Insulation: Unknown" in the brochure.

 

I am only mildly concerned about the hull as it appears to have been very well cared for by the company.

 

Does anyone know anything about this boat or Dartline boats in general?

 

I want to go an have a look at her at some point soon. But she is the first Narrow boat where I could actually "see" myself owning her.

That's why I am being cautious. My "professional" instincts are normally spot on. Otherwise....well...I married the ex!!! lol!

 

Info, Thoughts, Opinion and the normal abuse welcome! lol!

 

 

[JDR]

Heating by gas, that's a very expensive way to heat a boat, would IMHO need a solid fuel stove to be a liveaboard.Fitting a stove is DIY'able but would budget up to £1000 for stove, hearth, flue, roof collar and chimney (do a search on the topic here and look for discussion of BS8511 and fitting) Full paintjob in 2009/10 is good, that's probably at least £6k for a professional job and one less thing to deal with.The Isuzu 42 has been "reconditioned", what did that entail, how many hours on the engine from scratch? Then there is the time and work involved in converting boat from 10 berths to a more practical layout for living aboard, how much value do you put on your time or could you find a boat more ready to live on for the same money which didn't require so much work. I would think for the same money the answer would be yes but buying a boat isn't always about logic. Some insurers ask for hull surveys on boats of 25yrs and over which is another reason you can see 24yr old boats for sale. OIRO suggests there is room for negotiation.

Edited August 15, 2013 by JDR

[magpie patrick]

First point, I assume you realise she is currently a hire boat?

 

http://www.waterwaysholidays.com/detail/nwsphynx.htm

 

Ex hire are often a good deal, especially straight off fleet. It explains why she's been blacked every year and she will have been rigorously maintained. They are normally built to take a hammering, and even if they have received one are generally in better shape than boats that have been less well used but less well put together.

 

That said, 24 years is a fair amount of time in hire, although as they would consider operating the boat for a group it suggests the problem may be insuring an older boat as JDR says or simply fleet renewal and her time is up.

 

The fact she is still a hire boat means that engine is unlikely to be the one that has seen all 24 years of her life, on the other hand, it won't be the only boat it has been in either.

 

Look at it this way, I'll soon be in a similar position to you, and have owned boats before. If I had the money now, I'd be taking this boat very seriously.

[Pykebird]

She seems a very tidy and looked after example of a hire boat. My concern with the alde, as my ex hire boat had one, would be combined with the insulation which will probably be polystyrene, can cause condensation.

You may also have a fair amount of work to change the layout and enable you to use the space in a better way to live aboard.But then again if you are able to do wood work, electric, plumbing etc, it will be easier.

Also you may need to add to the electrics if you want to run more than just a tv.

I noticed th

ere was no reference to the size of tanks, but being hire you will probably find they are both large which will come in handy.

As to age, I have still not been asked for a survey for insurance purposes and she is around 25 years old.

It might be worth a cheecky offer if you really like her, good luck.

[arbutus]

There is a previous Dartline discussion here http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=9985

Search the forum and you may find more.

I think the boat would have previously been in the Anglo Welsh fleet, looking at the pinkish colour of the bed headboards and the fact that Dartline were bought by Anglo Welsh.

[RichardH]

We had an ex-Dartline and found her to be a well built boat. She had been rebottomed by Dartline a few years before we purchased.

 

As with all boats this age, have a survey, the only real test of the value of the boat.

[clbrof]

My boat is a Dartline, had overplating a few years ago, by previous owners (at Norbury Wharf). Unfortunately the insulation in mine is polystyrene... not very good at keeping the warmth in and consensation where air can get in around the windows can cause condensation in the winter

 

Also noticed your in Watford, I brought mine back down to the Hemel area.

 

I took the Alde boiler out of mine as it was probably as old as the boat and leaking into the bilges.....

[Laurie St Lyon]

Heating by gas, that's a very expensive way to heat a boat, would IMHO need a solid fuel stove to be a liveaboard.Fitting a stove is DIY'able but would budget up to £1000 for stove, hearth, flue, roof collar and chimney (do a search on the topic here and look for discussion of BS8511 and fitting) Full paintjob in 2009/10 is good, that's probably at least £6k for a professional job and one less thing to deal with.The Isuzu 42 has been "reconditioned", what did that entail, how many hours on the engine from scratch? Then there is the time and work involved in converting boat from 10 berths to a more practical layout for living aboard, how much value do you put on your time or could you find a boat more ready to live on for the same money which didn't require so much work. I would think for the same money the answer would be yes but buying a boat isn't always about logic. Some insurers ask for hull surveys on boats of 25yrs and over which is another reason you can see 24yr old boats for sale. OIRO suggests there is room for negotiation.

I plan to build a "Rocket heater Stove" with oven & a back boiler. I am seriously thinking of doing away with gas altogether. (see Discussion "All Electric" on here)

 

Any boat I get will need work not just because of my price but because I am creating my home for the next 20+years. But I can chippy, plumb and wire. Have renovated two houses before. Most in this range that I have seen all have something that make me go "err maybe not". Age is less important that upkeep if properly made.

 

Defo want to negotiate but am not unreasonable. The fact they say they are happy to operate this boat for a group says they have faith in it. Trying hard to be logical but "I'm all excited Tommy!"

 

 

First point, I assume you realise she is currently a hire boat?

 

http://www.waterwaysholidays.com/detail/nwsphynx.htm

 

Ex hire are often a good deal, especially straight off fleet. It explains why she's been blacked every year and she will have been rigorously maintained. They are normally built to take a hammering, and even if they have received one are generally in better shape than boats that have been less well used but less well put together.

 

That said, 24 years is a fair amount of time in hire, although as they would consider operating the boat for a group it suggests the problem may be insuring an older boat as JDR says or simply fleet renewal and her time is up.

 

The fact she is still a hire boat means that engine is unlikely to be the one that has seen all 24 years of her life, on the other hand, it won't be the only boat it has been in either.

 

Look at it this way, I'll soon be in a similar position to you, and have owned boats before. If I had the money now, I'd be taking this boat very seriously.

Thanks my thinking exactly.

 

My boat is a Dartline, had overplating a few years ago, by previous owners (at Norbury Wharf). Unfortunately the insulation in mine is polystyrene... not very good at keeping the warmth in and consensation where air can get in around the windows can cause condensation in the winter

 

Also noticed your in Watford, I brought mine back down to the Hemel area.

 

I took the Alde boiler out of mine as it was probably as old as the boat and leaking into the bilges.....

Aha. That was my thought! Have you reseated/sealed you window frames to cure that?

Will ask Norbury about the hull when I get there. (Out of curiousity did yours have a shoreline connection? That appears to have a significant effect on the hull)

Would rather put £450 into the fit out than a survey if poss. Cash is tight. But may haave to bite the bullet and get one if only to save the prospect of a big cost later.

 

What do you pay in insurance for your boat? Is there a premium due to age/ex-hire?

[Grebe]

Our first boat was boat from Dartline at Bunbury at the end of the 1981 season. We had hired from them many times and knew the boats to be well made and tough.

 

I did see the drawings for the hull and discussed them with the designer. He said he designed the hulls for a 30 year life after which they would need replating at the waterline. I suspect they keep to the same formula for bottom plate and hull sides.

 

If it has been based at Bunbury I would have a good look at the front corners of the cabin - outside and inside -those lift bridges take no prisoners on the Llangolen.

 

p.s. we bought without a survey.

[RichardH]

I plan to build a "Rocket heater Stove" with oven & a back boiler. I am seriously thinking of doing away with gas altogether. (see Discussion "All Electric" on here)

 

Any boat I get will need work not just because of my price but because I am creating my home for the next 20+years. But I can chippy, plumb and wire. Have renovated two houses before. Most in this range that I have seen all have something that make me go "err maybe not". Age is less important that upkeep if properly made.

 

Defo want to negotiate but am not unreasonable. The fact they say they are happy to operate this boat for a group says they have faith in it. Trying hard to be logical but "I'm all excited Tommy!"

 

 

Thanks my thinking exactly.

 

Aha. That was my thought! Have you reseated/sealed you window frames to cure that?

Will ask Norbury about the hull when I get there. (Out of curiousity did yours have a shoreline connection? That appears to have a significant effect on the hull)

Would rather put £450 into the fit out than a survey if poss. Cash is tight. But may haave to bite the bullet and get one if only to save the prospect of a big cost later.

 

What do you pay in insurance for your boat? Is there a premium due to age/ex-hire?

 

On an old boat a no survey decision is very risky business.

 

The price isn't bargain basement either.

[JDR]

If you're going to refit the boat anyway have you considered a sailaway as an option? Brand new hull/superstructure, new engine. For £25-£30K you should be able to find a fully battened and sprayfoamed 50-60ft sailaway. ten second search on google...

http://trinitymarinas.co.uk/sailaways/

http://www.thenorthwichboat.com/pages/wincham57.htm

http://www.jdnarrowboats.com//substance/production

http://www.abcboatbuilding.com/sailaway.html

I'm sure there would be lots of recommendations from people on here. Seems good value compared to the cost of a 24yr old boat

(and I say that as the owner of a 22yr old boat!)

Edited August 15, 2013 by JDR

[Laurie St Lyon]

If you're going to refit the boat anyway have you considered a sailaway as an option? Brand new hull/superstructure, new engine. For £25-£30K you should be able to find a fully battened and sprayfoamed 50-60ft sailaway. ten second search on google...

http://trinitymarinas.co.uk/sailaways/

http://www.thenorthwichboat.com/pages/wincham57.htm

http://www.jdnarrowboats.com//substance/production

http://www.abcboatbuilding.com/sailaway.html

I'm sure there would be lots of recommendations from people on here. Seems good value compared to the cost of a 24yr old boat

(and I say that as the owner of a 22yr old boat!)

Did look at it. Was actually after a 60x10. Half them dont come back to you about specifics and there not enough in it by the time I did the math!

Kind of looking for circa 25k as my top line figure keeps reducing! Once again I am working on a shoestring!

 

I have penchant for old things and kind of like the idea of a boat with some history. I also prefer the older steel and as she has worked this long without falling apart I think she is probably sounder than some of the new ones where they seem to buy in the hulls.

 

It has been suggested to gut and completely refurb. But I like the aged wood and my idea is more to move things around layout wise.

 

I want the lounge at the stern, then Kitchen, bathroom, toilet, Single cabin, double bunks, then fixed double at bow. Toss up between taking the cabinright to the bow or simply enclosing it in triplewall to make a conservatory on my bedroom. In my mind if I want an outdoor party then that is what towpaths are for!

Besides the great british weather means I will probably be inside more than out. Global warming or not! lol!

 

But will get a hull survey. Have found a full boat survey is £500 but a hull only is £300.So will get that.

 

Oh by the way JDR ...Do you pay more insurance wise for an older boat?

[JDR]

Oh by the way JDR ...Do you pay more insurance wise for an older boat?

 

Not yet (Towergate Mardon) but give it three years and I may have to do some shopping around as the hull is in surprisingly good condition and I don't need the expense of a hull survey just to satisfy the insurance company.

[Laurie St Lyon]

 

Not yet (Towergate Mardon) but give it three years and I may have to do some shopping around as the hull is in surprisingly good condition and I don't need the expense of a hull survey just to satisfy the insurance company.

Thanks JDR.