dartline

[grahoom]

hello

 

did a little search on here, and it seems that dartline where a hire company,

 

i've seen this boat for sale

 

http://www.whiltonmarina.co.uk/Boats/freedom/freedom.htm

 

and am thinking of going to have a look at it - can anyone give me any information on dartline? - would i be right in presuming this NB was an ex hire?

 

what are peoples views on GRP tops?

 

i notice the headroom is only 5 foot 7! (luckily i am 5 foot 6, just wont be able to have shoes on... )

[Dan]

Dartline were around up to & including 1997 when they were bought by Anglo Welsh.

 

Generally the boats were well built, but as a hirefleet were not ran to overly high standards compared to some. The owners had a reputation as characters, and were a little reluctant to lavish lots of money on them in some respects.

 

I am very dubious that boat was built by them though. The front bow shape especially doesn't look right at all for a Dartline in their era of using GRP tops.. If you do go to see it take lots of piccies & post them when you get back and you can then get further feedback on this.

 

This seems to happen fairly often with brokers. I'm not sure if its the owners generally believing the information to be correct & the broker taking onboard everything they are told, or if it's the broker not beimg so much of an expert as they may consider themself. I guess we all get it wrong sometimes, though like I say, it looks very un-Dartline to me.

 

I sold my boat through Whilton & found them jolly nice, decent people to deal with

 

Dan

Edited August 7, 2007 by Dan

[Tootles]

Dartline were around up to & including 1997 when they were bought by Anglo Welsh.

 

Generally the boats were well built, but as a hirefleet were not ran to overly high standards compared to some. The owners had a reputation as characters, and were a little reluctant to lavish lots of money on them in some respects.

 

I am very dubious that boat was built by them though. The front bow shape especially doesn't look right at all for a Dartline in their era of using GRP tops.. If you do go to see it take lots of piccies & post them when you get back and you can then get further feedback on this.

 

This seems to happen fairly often with brokers. I'm not sure if its the owners generally believing the information to be correct & the broker taking onboard everything they are told, or if it's the broker not beimg so much of an expert as they may consider themself. I guess we all get it wrong sometimes, though like I say, it looks very un-Dartline to me.

 

I sold my boat through Whilton & found them jolly nice, decent people to deal with

 

Dan

 

This boat COULD be a second-pattern Dartline Cruiser, which would put it not at 1970, but more near to 1975. Dartline took over Shropshire Union Cruisers in the early seventies, and inherited their fleet. These were mostly 'cutlass hulled' boats, with chined hulls and GRP tops, built long and low for hire on the Welsh Canal. Dartline then started building their new boats, but had a great deal of hull problems with them (third world steel was by then flooding the market), to the extent that they had to re-bottom many after only five years!! The secret of this boat is on the back deck, which you cant see for the steel dodger. If the gas bottles are each side stern, and covered with steel 'manhole covers', then there is a good chance that she is ex-Dartline, but of a later age then 1970, I feel.

[grahoom]

This boat COULD be a second-pattern Dartline Cruiser, which would put it not at 1970, but more near to 1975. Dartline took over Shropshire Union Cruisers in the early seventies, and inherited their fleet. These were mostly 'cutlass hulled' boats, with chined hulls and GRP tops, built long and low for hire on the Welsh Canal. Dartline then started building their new boats, but had a great deal of hull problems with them (third world steel was by then flooding the market), to the extent that they had to re-bottom many after only five years!! The secret of this boat is on the back deck, which you cant see for the steel dodger. If the gas bottles are each side stern, and covered with steel 'manhole covers', then there is a good chance that she is ex-Dartline, but of a later age then 1970, I feel.

 

it does say it's been replated, i am up that way end of the month so i will try and go along to look at it if it is still up for sale.

[Tootles]

it does say it's been replated, i am up that way end of the month so i will try and go along to look at it if it is still up for sale.

 

A couple of other things to look for. Dartline colours were predominantly blue and white. Blue GRP top, white gunnels and top of hull, with some red as banding. Try and get the 'light', looking along each side from an angle. The Dartline motif was inside a large circle on the side, and with the GRP top models, you may still be able to see this circle under the new paint. Also, all Dartline boat names were on an oblong wooden panel (12/14"X6"), screwed to the side. It was always a condition of buying a boat from them that the new owner removed this panel, and DID NOT call the boat by the same name as when in Dartline service, so it may be possible to see the two screw-holes each side, about in the center, but high up.

Dave.

[David]

Hi

Agree with Dan the front does not look like the bow from Dartline hulls built at the Bunbury base. I do not recall seeing one so short and we got to see all of them from us being moored in Chester from 1978 (and just up the canal at calveley since 2003). Also most if not all got fitted with cow catcher bars, a piece of tube fixed to the front top corner of the roof down to the bow in an attempt to stop the hirers smashing the roof corners off on the bridge holes and Chirk tunnel so evidence of this might be a point to look for, though it would prove nothing as they got fitted by other people.

However it may be one of their's from early days or a bought in hull as the advert says fitted out by Dartline.

David

[Tootles]

Hi

Agree with Dan the front does not look like the bow from Dartline hulls built at the Bunbury base. I do not recall seeing one so short and we got to see all of them from us being moored in Chester from 1978 (and just up the canal at calveley since 2003). Also most if not all got fitted with cow catcher bars, a piece of tube fixed to the front top corner of the roof down to the bow in an attempt to stop the hirers smashing the roof corners off on the bridge holes and Chirk tunnel so evidence of this might be a point to look for, though it would prove nothing as they got fitted by other people.

However it may be one of their's from early days or a bought in hull as the advert says fitted out by Dartline.

David

Must agree with you on that, David, however, they did have a couple 0f 30ft boats, and then upwards. The cut-away in the front fibreglass of the sides COULD be another pointer, they all have that, including mine. Not all the GRP boats had the bridge deflectors, unlike the Anglo Welsh GRP topped fleet, because any impact tended to just lift the roof clean off. These were originally put on because of a death caused when a hirer got trapped between a hand-pulled lift bridge, as you know, there are a few on the Welsh Canal!! (Now of coarse either hydraulic or chained back.) Couple on the Caldon as well. All in all, I think that if Grahoom checks the points I have mentioned above, he should come to a conclusion. The only thing definite I think is that the date is wrong if it is a Dartline boat.

Dave.

[Dan]

I've searched out a few pics, to try & help with the distinguishing features of the boats, and whats made me a 'non believer' of the Dartline orginin.Firstly, perhaps I should add that the top cabin mat well have been modified with owner extensions/alterations, so it's tricky not being there in the flesh to see if there is the original cabin lines evident. THey certainly wouldn't be as they are now if by this builder. In answer to another of your original questions GRP is not generally as ideal as steel, as GRP & Steel contract etc at different rates, so sometimes flex away from each other etc, arem't so good unless insulated much better, but there are merits, such as no rust, and the fact many of these GRP tops are still around says something. When it came to it though, having worked with them at Anglo Welsh I bought an all steel over one when it was my money.

 

Ok.. so... the reasons why it's unlikely to be Dartline, or a Cutlass hull...Picture 1... a Dartline hull/GRP top from mid 1970's - note the hull shape. The top hull band above the welded strip (painted light blue) is not very tall. This is characteristic of all Dartline boats up until about 1979 which were always then all steel too - so a GRP top one wouldnt have the taller top section. Note also how near the front of the boat there's not really a gentle curve into the nose, it goes off at quite a definate angle - also characteristic of a GRP top Dartline boat - see pic:http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z157/da...pg?t=1186529643

 

OK... next pic, a 'Cutlass' hull, from shropshire Union Cruisers - very similar, bow shape/curve in is more gentle though, on the hull the blue painted band is still not very high compared to modern designs or the boat in the photo.

 

As has been said it's not impossible it was a one off by them, but I think it's more likely to be by an unknown builder, even the windows are non Dartline/Shropshire Union, though again could have been changed, but probably not without it being pretty evident.

 

I'd ask if you do turn up what's made them think its by this builder

 

OK, I guess I've bored everyone silly now, will go back to sitting more quietly

 

Good luck, happy boat hunting

 

Dan

 

Pic... Shropshire Union Cutlass hullhttp://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z157/da...pg?t=1186530004

Edited August 7, 2007 by Dan

[grahoom]

cheers dan for that! - gives me some idea of what i should be looking for.

 

and thanks to david and tootles too!