Dan

It is a very old reg that, from around the time they introduced them (reg's came in about 1979) The Hancock and Lane bit is just wrong The shell builder is Fernie. However, who fitted her or ran her is now not known CRT may be able to give you information on it's previous names. Sally Ash at British Waterways (as it was then) looked in the archives for me to supply previous names of some boats in the early 80's by reg number, which may help us pinpoint where/what she was if you let me know if you do this. However, that was back in 2009 so whether she is still there, or able to be as helpful as she was then I do not know Dan

I remember Valley Cruises ran a Brumtug for maybe five years from around 1989. I think this was called Nene Valley. I thought this was perhaps ex Brummagem's hirefleet and maybe the one that then went on to Saisons as "Asti", as they were not around until maybe late 90s or so Also, does anyone else remember that "Golden Hind" (photo earlier in thread), the height of luxury at the time was stolen in either 1990 or 1991, but she was found Dan

Bobcat was built for 1988 and was 75659 and Beaver was for 1989 and was BW 47299. The one Whilton were running as "Asti" was an earlier one (ex Brummagen & then Valley Cruises as I recall), all were Brumtugs but the later two were slightly different. All the best Dan

I think the one Whilton have is older than Bobcat & Beaver and is a much earlier Brummagen Boats "Brumtug". I think it is from around 1980 and after brummagen Boats was with Valley Cruises. I think it might have been called Nene Valley, but might have remembered the name wrong - I think they had it between around 1989 & 1993 ish. Dan

Oh dear... sorry about that Mark, apologies for sending you on a wild goosechase. I can picture it quite clearly and it was a black and white image so I am pretty certain was a Waterways World map, but as you say, perhaps a later edition. Thanks for your trouble Dan

Hi Mark Thanks for scanning those, sadly those are not the pictures I was thinking of. I think it is probably close to the page that features Lower Heyford as the bridge is just round the corner from there (Mill Lift Bridge I think) and it is a fairly close up image of the boat, taken I think of it's stern. It's at this point I'm hoping I've not remembered it from the wrong book or something!! Many thanks Dan

Hi there I was aware it caused issues which is why I put the advisory about best viewed with IE, however, it will work if you try from here: http://www.blackprinceowners.org.uk/boatlistingandphotos.html It's a nuisance I know, and I may hopefully be able to transfer it over the winter to a newer system that will work, but I do not currently have much time to give it and it has grown to be almost 700 pages Best Wishes Dan Thanks, that's kind, and much apprciated Will be in touch in a fortnight if no-one else has found one! Dan

Hi Everyone Bit of a funny request but I wondered if anyone had (or knows how I could get) an old copy of the Waterways World canal map series that was published in the early 1980s for the Southern Oxford canal. As I recall it had a photo of a Black Prince boat caled Rapier passing under a lift bridge on one of the pages inside, which I would like to see. I think the map cover was a two tone colour mainly in red. I had one years ago but would like to get my hands on that picture again for the website if possible! Dan http://www.blackprinceowners.org.uk/index.html

Hi The boat was definately not made by Harborough Marine but it is from the era (mid - late 70s) when many craft resembled/copied their design, such as (and amongst others) Fernie Steel Fabrications etc as mentioned. The Harborough bows at the time this was made were still their characteristic high style which were a slightly different sweep, and the tamed lower bows that appeared progressively from 1980 did look a bit different. The cabin top is also quite different, though similar to a Harborough. I think the boat was a Hucker Marine, and probably also ran with Black Prince but was definately not built by them (they were always all steel as mentioned). There were others of the same style that BP didnt run, but they did have a few like this such as "Shrike" & "Blue Streak", which became part of the BP fleet for a while and joined through the acquisition of another operator/base (probably Lower Heyford). The photo of this one from the 1980s brochure matches that distinctive pattern on the rear doors: http://www.blackprinceowners.org.uk/1989_16.html Shrike: http://www.blackprinceowners.org.uk/shrike.html As the names were painted if you're clever/careful with the nitromors you may find it's original name lives on under a few coats of paint... but it could be a sistership build that ran with another operator. Best Wishes Dan http://www.blackprinceowners.org.uk/latestupdates.html

Just had a look at the website and can see a few pictures have changed round and the boats now grouped not by stern arrangement but by "Heritage", "Comfort" & "Larger Family/Group". I'm puzzled why Larch, a 66ft tug style 6 berth goes under larger/group category though... surely that would be a Heritage style - its not the kind of boat you'd look for or expect to be marketed to a group surely? It also doesnt seem to fit just as its 6 berth, as 6 berths sit in the other categories also... sadly as a result the grading seem a bit irratic and perhaps more confusing than what was there before. Also, the pictures are all over the place. For example I'd expect the internal picture next to Larch to be of that boat, but it isn't.... thats not only poor but also going to lead to disappointment/mis-representation issues, and it is not the only example, the same problem is replicated alongside other boats. Whilst you'll get away with a basic or old fashioned looking website if the content is accurate & it gives and covers everything the customer is looking for, but mis-representations & mis-leading pictures is the last thing you want if you're trying to re-establish a good name Dan

And one more, from 2008

Hi, Here's a few photos from this year that are quite un-special, but you are welcome to use if they are better than nothing or handy as a stopgap! Glad to hear you've taken Middlewich Narrowboats on, as a nipper in the 90s even then I thought they were a bit of a mixed bag, and different to the norm, with some nice boats, along with some boats I really wouldnt have wanted to holiday on. I think as has been summised as canal holidays have moved further from being seen as almost adventure holidays and to customers expecting young craft with home from home comforts and immaculate presentation they fell ever further behind, though perhaps most importantly got a few crucial areas wrong, but being different can often be a strength, so I hope you can highlight what were the areas that were letting you down (late departures & cleanliness appear two key unacceptables) and turn things round... I'm sure you can and wish you all the best Dan www.blackprinceowners.org.uk

A lot of the holiday companies are (as well as various other sites) on my links page, though there may be the odd omission, it can be hard to keep it totally up to date http://www.dhorner.horning.org.uk/page23.html All the best Dan

Thanks, that is what I thought. Hopefully in mozilla etc you still get the text by all the buttons that says "Site best viewed using Internet Explorer" but that was the best I could come up with in the hope people would realise the problem. Sadly in that respect the site is what it is - an amateur site, created by someone who is not a web designer and is limited by the capabilities of the program it's created with. At around 500 pages in size I dont think I will ever get time to re-create it in a different way. Dan

Are you viewing it in Internet Explorer? All the best Dan Thanks Dave, I happen to agree wholeheartedly with you, but then I am a bit biased and I'm sure other opinions are available! Dan

I have been doing a few little updates to the Black Prince owners website and have added an old (1981) brochure in recent months. If you have an ex Black Prince boat, have ever hired from them or are just interested in boats or a bit of history you might find some interest in it all! I hope to add another brochure or two more, along with a few other updates over the next fortnight. Thanks to everyone who has been in touch or sent me photos. I'd love to build and continue this - so if anyone has anything they think might be of interest, or any old pictures of the boats It'd be great to hear from you. http://www.blackprinceowners.org.uk Dan

The last few years they hired things were a bit messy, I think ownership changed somewhere around 2000, and they were ran alongside the Canalbreaks fleet (now at Hillmorton), some of the boats changed and they centered on the Swan Lane Wharf name rather than the Clubline. I think their last year in this guise was 2006. All the best Dan

On the Dartline front... the early ones, with a fibreglass top did have a different front shape... that is less smooth in its curve and has a higher bow. I'll try & find a picture. The Irish boats pictured built by Dartline were all originally in the Celtic Canal Cruisers fleet from Tullinamore. Dartline built their entire fleet between about 1977 and the late 90's. I'm not sure why they closed... a shame really as one of the first hirers in the area. None came from Dartline's fleet though - they had them since new from them. All the best Dan

Hi 'Rosie Glad you liked my website. Hopefully you found your way to the boat listing page & could identify what your boat was called when with BP etc. If you have let me know, it's possible I may have further info or pictures of her Best Wishes Dan

Hi Everyone Just to let everyone know I've added a little further information & pictures I've been sent in.... there's now a recent updates button for those interested, and if anyone else has pictures to contribute please do drop me an email. Best Wishes Dan

Nah... there's a bit more to it than that I believe All the best Dan

Only this summer someone told me that Canaltime are a commercial arm of BWB. Now I'm told that they are part of Tesco. The truth must be out there somewhere I commented that ABC Leisure Group (Alvechurch Boat Centres, Viking Afloat, Red Line Boats etc etc) were owned indirectly by Tesco, and I asked if they had now bought Canaltime as the phrase used (something like they will be operating Canaltime) didn't make it very clear. All the best Dan

Aha... suddenly that emailed special offer to move boats on a one way cruise in October for peanuts makes sense! So does taking over the management of them mean they have bought them out, or just taking over some of their operations...? Dan

Funnily enough, you can definately use your points on a canal holiday with them, as many customers do I believe. Whether you get any points for booking with them I doubt but could be wrong! Early indications seem to be that their prices go more astronomical every year, although the boats quality are quite good I suppose, so I hope they don't manage to buy everyone out, especially as I try and avoid all companies that are part of the Tesco empire where possible.... no boating would be tragic news! Dan

I hear they (ABC) are indirectly owned by Tesco in effect, which makes the whole scenario of trying to buy up anything in the UK that makes profit a familiar sight. Dan