Making home moorings available to others while vacant

[LutraSkip]

I am relatively new to this Forum and this may have been raised before. Also, if a moderator thinks this is in the wrong discussion, please feel free to place it more appropriately.

 

After reading something in a recent discussion, I picked up that another member will be travelling near my home base, when our boat will be out until the autumn. After contact by PM, he now has an empty mooring to use for a few days. I began to wonder if this could not be done more widely.

 

I know marina berths will often not be able to be made available under their berthing regulations, but CRT and possibly some private moorings could probably be made available without offending any rules. It would seem unlikely to be seen as sub-letting if no money changes hands.

 

I put this up the flagpole to see if it flies. The simplest way for it to work might be for anyone able to offer their home mooring to others travelling in the area to post their mooring location and size, with relevant dates. Maybe a separate place in the forum would be required for this. Formal permission to use the mooring on particular dates and any other essential information would be dealt with by PM. I'm not suggesting that someone else should just turn up and use it.

 

Daft? Or might it work?

[Guest]

Strictly CRT LTM's should not be 'loaned' to anybody other then the person that has a mooring agreement with CRT and an associated permit so people may be reluctant to 'advertise' their mooring on here.

 

However that is not to say it doesn't go on but I would have thought more by arrangement through PM. We were once offered one that way.

 

The slight hic up is that some moorings (including ours) have access gates secured with a bespoke (not a CRT watermate) key.

[Pete & Helen]

Sounds like a good Idea to me but instead of offering your mooring (again to stop the wrong people finding out) maybe it would be better to ask if any available. I appreciate this could get out of hand though if not used sensibly

[Guest]

Sounds like a good Idea to me but instead of offering your mooring (again to stop the wrong people finding out) maybe it would be better to ask if any available. I appreciate this could get out of hand though if not used sensibly

 

This is sort of how it happened in our case.

 

We mentioned our cruising plans on here and somebody contacted us by PM and said something along the lines of 'if you need a mooring in 'such and such' a spot feel free to use ours as we are off it for the next few months.

[larkshall]

A lot of this kind of arrangement happened in Goole when I was there. Usually I would be told to expect such-and-such a boat to use a mates mooring for a few days/weeks whilst he was away cruising.

[Mrs Trackman]

Given the difficulty it can be moping n certain spots, it seems mad to me that vacant moorings can't be used by others though I realise it could be tricky to organise.

[alan_fincher]

Strictly CRT LTM's should not be 'loaned' to anybody other then the person that has a mooring agreement with CRT and an associated permit so people may be reluctant to 'advertise' their mooring on here.

 

Well actually they can, but strictly you have to clear it with CRT......

 

You may allow another person to use the Mooring for short periods but only with our permission which shall not be unreasonably withheld.

 

That said, I suspect CRT would get fairly hacked off if hundreds of us started phoning or emailing them to seek such permission, and might be secretly happier if we just did it, and assumed that they would not have "unreasonably withheld" permission had we asked.

 

I have used other forum members BW/CRT LTMs on several occasions, and suspect BW/CRT have never been contacted, but it seems if you wanted to formalise the arrangement then generally you could.

Given the difficulty it can be moping n certain spots, it seems mad to me that vacant moorings can't be used by others though I realise it could be tricky to organise.

 

I have a reputation for being able to "mope" just about anywhere, than you very much!

[Guest]

 

Well actually they can, but strictly you have to clear it with CRT......

 

 

Going on the wording of our agreement (which I can't find at the mo!)

 

Would indicate different.

[alan_fincher]

 

Going on the wording of our agreement (which I can't find at the mo!)

 

Would indicate different.

What I have quoted is the wording for an LTM mooring agreement won at auction.

 

No idea why yours should differ.

Edited June 27, 2013 by alan_fincher

[Mrs Trackman]

 

Well actually they can, but strictly you have to clear it with CRT......

 

That said, I suspect CRT would get fairly hacked off if hundreds of us started phoning or emailing them to seek such permission, and might be secretly happier if we just did it, and assumed that they would not have "unreasonably withheld" permission had we asked.

 

I have used other forum members BW/CRT LTMs on several occasions, and suspect BW/CRT have never been contacted, but it seems if you wanted to formalise the arrangement then generally you could.

 

I have a reputation for being able to "mope" just about anywhere, than you very much!

Sorry, I knew it was a mistake to post from my phone.

Thanks for finding that wording though Alan. I can never find things when I want them. When we had a LTM even though we intended to be out travelling most of the time, I did think at least our friends would be able to use the mooring if they needed to when we weren't. I actually mentioned the possibility to the mooring officer and he seemed unaware of the agreement and very unwilling to agree it would be a good idea. He was obviously aware, as we were soon to find out, how much the residents around Peel's wharf houses loath boats and boaters which is why they chose to live by a canal, but that's another thread.

However, I still think it's a no brainer that if I'm paying for a mooring but not using it others should be able to moor. Isn't that what boat clubs do?

[Sweeny Todd]

We do this where we are moored. When I am off cruising I am quite happy for my mooring to be used. My neighbour is currently away for a few weeks and is using someone elses mooring and is quite happy to have his used by others. Our CRT mooring manager is happy with this arrangement as long as we text / email to let him know. We do also have short term moorings here, but during busy times it can be difficult to moor near the facilities and personally speaking I enjoy seeing new faces. However, I am aware that not everyone feels the same. I have seen other long term moorers near me moving visitors on and not allowing them to moor up. Not wanting to start an arguament here, but the people that do tend to have a problem with it near me are the ones that I have never actually seen move their boats.

[DaveP]

Same here, I'm away from my CaRT mooring for Summer, and our moorings manager had no problem with a friend occupying the mooring whilst I was away. I did check with my neighbours (at least the one's who weren't also going out)....

[Guest]

What I have quoted is the wording for an LTM mooring agreement won at auction.

No idea why yours should differ.

Nor me. But I can't find mine as I'm in France at the mo.

[alan_fincher]

Nor me. But I can't find mine as I'm in France at the mo.

Fair enough.....

 

Lovely boat, but with limited cabin space it makes sense not to have too much unnecessary paperwork on board!

 

[Guest]

Fair enough.....

Lovely boat, but with limited cabin space it makes sense not to have too much unnecessary paperwork on board!

That's why I normally PDF important docs.

 

But even then I don't carry them every where I go.

 

Nice boat though.

[Keeping Up]

I'm always happy for anyone to use my (non-CRT) mooring to the South of Milton Keynes, as long as they do the courtesy of asking first otherwise the neighbours have instructions to chase them away (and they have several dogs who will lick the intruders mercilessly until they go away)

 

The one problem is that the access lane is owned by someone else and although we have permission to use it, it is somewhat debatable as to whether or not we have the right to delegate that permission for anything more than the first and last visits on arrival and departure. But there's an 80ft square of land so it's quite good if you only want to stay a short while and don't need the pub. Chesterfield Trust's Python stayed there recently and helped us by making it a bit deeper; if anyone else could use such a mooring, please PM me and I will see what can be arranged.

[NB Python]

I would like to say that Mr Keeping-Up's mooring was a very comfortable place for me to settle into the mud at for a while. It was a huge help to my crew, all of whom are volunteers for The Chesterfield Canal Trust. With a month for me to hang about between festivals it was a long drive for my crew from the Chesterfield area to come down and shuffle me along for a bit to conform with mooring regs. They are all very happy that mooring my fat bottom on Mr Keeping-Up's mooring was helpful to him as well. I am sure someone mentioned that I resembled a hungry hippo the way I wallowed in the mud! The good thing about a fairly shallow mooring is if I decide to sink I don't go down that far!

I think someone mentioned that they owe Mr Keeping-up a pint next time they see him.

[Dave_P]

I case it helps, here the link to the terms and conditions http://www.waterscape.com/media/documents/1861.pdf paragraph 3 has the key phrase "You may allow another person to use the Mooring for short periods but only with our permission which shall not be unreasonably withheld."

 

In typical CaRT/BW style they don't define what they mean by "short periods" and when I asked about letting someone use my mooring i was initially refused with this phrase emailled to me "you cannot sub-let whether for reward or otherwise." I queried this quoting section 3 of the t&cs and they then asked me to define "short periods" for them!!!!

 

 

At that point i came to my senses and decided to just stop asking them anything and do my own thing. I let someone use my mooring when they needed it and I was away.

 

At the risk of courting further controversy, I can't actually think why it even matters if someone did sub-let for reward. So long as CaRT get their mooring fee paid by the owner, what difference does it make to them?

 

In response to Sweeney Todd and DaveP (nice name!) you must have a different CaRT moorings manager than me....

[LutraSkip]

The precise wording of the condition is actually quite liberal.

 

As there is no definition of short period it is open to interpretation and they cannot be prescriptive about it. They must follow their own conditions - when they even bother to read them - and cannot withhold permission without a good reason. There is no provision for them to impose conditions on such permission, though such conditions might be agreed with the party asking.

 

The proposal I raised was, I thought, only likely to deal with a few days temporary occupation and that must be a short time in anybody's interpretation when compared with the full term of a mooring contract.

 

The other factor is that the condition is open to the giving of a blanket permission and it may not therefore be required in each individual case. In practice, they would want to deal with a lot of individual applications. It may be worth asking my regional moorings manager to give blanket consent for me to allow someone to use my mooring for no more than 5 days in a calendar year, when I am not using it.

 

I will await any further contributions to the discussion before I decide whether to do so.

[Guest]

I case it helps, here the link to the terms and conditions http://www.waterscape.com/media/documents/1861.pdf paragraph 3 has the key phrase "You may allow another person to use the Mooring for short periods but only with our permission which shall not be unreasonably withheld."

 

In typical CaRT/BW style they don't define what they mean by "short periods" and when I asked about letting someone use my mooring i was initially refused with this phrase emailled to me "you cannot sub-let whether for reward or otherwise." I queried this quoting section 3 of the t&cs and they then asked me to define "short periods" for them!!!!

 

 

At that point i came to my senses and decided to just stop asking them anything and do my own thing. I let someone use my mooring when they needed it and I was away.

 

At the risk of courting further controversy, I can't actually think why it even matters if someone did sub-let for reward. So long as CaRT get their mooring fee paid by the owner, what difference does it make to them?

 

 

In response to Sweeney Todd and DaveP (nice name!) you must have a different CaRT moorings manager than me....

I suspect the clause ref. Sub letting is what I may be thinking of. So I suppose as long as permits,soon is sought and no money is made it could actually be a runner.