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Thanks for the replies Bengo and SR.

 

One big difference I notice between the marine version (which I believe I have) and the industrial version is the flywheel is mounted on opposite ends of the engine.

 

MtB

 

Seems to be quite common with vintage design diesel engines with exposed flywheels and offered with marine or industrial variants . The normally bulky flywheel doesn't easily allow close coupled gearbox for marine use so its put in the correct place sleep.png on the front. This seems to me to offer some sort of balance with acceleration loads on both ends of the crank.

 

Exceptions are Gardner LW's, Dorman's and four/six cylinder Lister Freedom series, most of which had enclosed flywheels anyway.

Edited by by'eck

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Thanks for the answers everyone. I've rigged up the Dynastart and it spins the engine over a treat, and I've drained all the water out from the sump and replaced it with oil :-/

 

I've filled the injector pump sump with diesel to the brim as suggested and surprisingly it seems to work. I've bled the injector pipes and spinning it over on a rapidly flattening battery results in all the right puffy noises and clouds of pale grey 'smoke' from the exhaust so I have high hopes that it might actually start with a re-charged battery and a blowlamp up the air inlet!

 

One thing bothers me though, there is no obvious method of stopping it if I get it started, other than a rag up the air intake or shutting off the fuel supply. Does anyone know how the designers of the engine intended one to stop a Samofa?

 

MtB

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One thing bothers me though, there is no obvious method of stopping it if I get it started, other than a rag up the air intake or shutting off the fuel supply. Does anyone know how the designers of the engine intended one to stop a Samofa?

 

MtB

I thought that had been answered, after a fashion, might have been in another thread.

 

Tim

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I thought that had been answered, after a fashion, might have been in another thread.

 

Tim

 

Yes I had deja vu typing it, but I couldn't find where I'd asked!

 

I'll look harder...

 

MtB

Found it...

 

I asked in my Dynastart thread. Should have looked there first. Thanks!

 

MtB

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Hi Mike

The injector pump sump should have engine oil in it just like the Simms minimec/majormecs. The level plug if I recall is either a union with a pigtail pipe on it or have a screwdriver slot in it approx halfway down the governor box and take around a quarter of a pint of oil or less. As these pumps age,wear and tear causes the oil to be replaced with diesel and they seem to be quite happy running on it but oil is the correct way to go and will control the engine RPM better. Hope this helps.

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Hi folks,

 

I'm new here on the forum and from Holland, maybe I can help you with the subject Samofa.

 

The real Samofa engines are the types S108 and the 95 series.

Later they built licensed Hatz diesels, the 80 series.

In the 1980's Mitshubishi bought the shares of Samofa and a few years later the name Samofa dissapeared.

 

If necessery, I can post pictures of the different engines.

 

The best site for Samofa is: http://www.samofa.nl/Samofa/Samofa_Holland.html

 

You will find leaflets, history and a lot of other information.

Of course it's in Dutch, but everyone understands pictures and numbers.

 

Another site where you can ask questions (in English) about Samofa is this one:

http://bronsforum.xsbb.nl/viewforum.php?f=20

 

For manuals have a look here:

http://bronsforum.xsbb.nl/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=814079

 

Hope this is of help to you or otherwise, sent me a pm.

 

Bronssie

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Welcome to the forum Bronssie!

 

Thanks for the links, I'll have a read.

 

In the meantime maybe you can answer a question or point me in the right direction please... Not even the marine versions seem to have a water pump. How does the cooling water get pushed around?

 

Maybe I need to read your links!

 

Thanks,

MtB

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The Samofa type s108 has been produced with 2 watercooling systems.

 

There is a well known system with a plunger pump.

There are as far as I know two water plunger systems that were used.

(There seem to have been at least 2 fuel pump systems used as well) !

 

The other system is a sealed cooling system using a radiator and a fan pump. See Photo.

 

wmj2.jpg

 

The fan pump is located on the opposite side from the fuelpump

 

The flywheel on the s108 engine can be placed on either side

There are even some engines with 2 flywheels.

 

4g65.jpg

 

As Mr. Bargemast explained on the forum, Samofa was a cooperation between the four big engine producers

 

The shares in the company was as follows:

Kromhout 40%

Bolnes 20%

Industrie 20%

Brons 20%

 

At that time it was too expensive for the large engine producers each to retool to make smaller help motors

They decided to start a joint project and put a new factory in Harderwijk. Even though the factory opened in April 1950,

some Samofa motors had already been sold

 

Because Kromhout were the farthest in their development of the smaller help engines it was decided to use mainly their components to build the engines,

They were already producing the 3,4,6 and 8 cylinder engines of this type.

So actually the first engines produced were Kromhouts under the Samofa name..

 

Coincidently, Kromhout also cooperated with Gardner in the U.K. so you could almost say that a Samofa is a Gardner!

 

@ MtB: Would it be possible for you to place a Photo of your Samofa?

Could you let me know the engine number?

 

Best regards,

 

Eric bronssie on the forum

 

c6n2.jpg

 

vxde.jpg

Edited by bronssie

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Right, an update.

 

Firstly, many thanks to bronssie for such help, advice and interest. Unfortunately the photo links don't work for me. I don't have a note of the engine number but I'll find it next time I'm there and post it here.

 

I'm pleased to report too that I've had it running now. Finally got it to fire after putting about 10cc of oil into each cylinder via the exhaust valves, visible and accessible with an oil can via the exhaust port!

 

The engine is not happy. Runs for the first five minutes on one cylinder with vast volumes of grey smoke before eventually running on both once a bit warm. Is there anything I can check to diagnose this?

 

When running on both cylinders there is a fair amount of mid grey smoke from both the exhaust and wafting out of the (loose) crankcase side covers. Oil pressure is an impressive 2.5PSI at tickover rising to 5PSI at about 500rpm.

 

The engine is easily spun round by the Dynastart when cold, but when hot it can't cope. The pistons seem to have a LOT of friction in the bores mid-stroke. I have to forcefully turn the flywheel manually to approaching TDC where friction is lower before the Dynastart (or the starting handle) can be used to turn it over and re-start. This only happens when hot though. Any comment on what this indicates, anyone?

 

Finally, the blade that came with it is stamped "52.5 - 47.5". It seems to be 52cm diameter so I think it's a safe bet to say it's 47.5cm pitch. This translates to roughly 20.5" x 18.5". This seems WAY too small given the engine has a 2:1 reduction fitted.

 

Here's a vid of it running mainly on one cylinder. I have another vid on my phone of it running more happily on two which I'll try to find and upload shortly.

 

I'm currently wondering if I should just buy another, better Samofa and use this one for spares!

 

MtB

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Prop sounds a bit small to me too. Given 20 bhp @ 1000 rpm (when running right wink.png) something closer to 24" x 22" would seem close with 2:1 reduction.

 

Seems to accelerate most of the time on just one cylinder.

Edited by by'eck

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Prop sounds a bit small to me too. Given 20 bhp @ 1000 rpm (when running right wink.png) something closer to 24" x 22" would seem close with 2:1 reduction.

 

Seems to accelerate most of the time on just one cylinder.

 

 

Indeed, and how might one diagnose the reason? Any ideas?

 

Thanks...

 

Second vid (of it running on both cylinders) 45% uploaded....

 

MtB

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I think if the correct amount of fuel is correctly sprayed at the correct time into a cylinder at the correct compression it will fire rolleyes.gif

 

Working back from this premise and bearing in mind its running on one cylinder much better than the other, can you feel similar compression from each cylinder when turning over by hand (if that clever auto decompressor allows that)?

 

If so then injection system may be at fault. Injectors or injection pump, assuming you haven't had it overhauled.

 

What is the cooling system BTW? Rusty bores in wet liners with no water against them are going to get hot very quickly, and the super low oil pressure won't help.

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It looks to me as if very little fuel is being injected in to the non-running cylinder, implying one of - air in pump, faulty pump, faulty injector. Faulty pump seems likeliest to me. Maybe a broken spring.

 

Tim

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Thanks for your comments.

 

Here's a vid of us running it the second time, once it has started running on both cylinders.

 

There is no cooling system. Maybe this is why it gets stiff when hot. I guess this is the next thing to devise!

 

 

 

Mtb

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Im sorry forum members, imageshack deleted the pictures as it is no longer for free.

Ill try again.

Plungerpump:
516plunjerpomp.jpg

Plungerpump and rotating pump:
479plunjerpomp_en_centrif.jpg

In pumphouse Cremer with rotating pump:
7012s108_9_cremer.jpg

Samofa 1s108 with 2 flywheel's:
3931s108_3_1951.jpg

Two types of fuelpumps:
678br.jpg

1052s108_18.jpg

The last picture shows the knob which you have to use for starting the Samofa.
Put it on stand 3. (decompression)
Then turn the flywheel round as quikly as you can.
When stand 0 shows up, the engine will go automaticly in the compression stand and fire up.
hope you understand my English writing.

Edited by bronssie

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Quote:

I'm pleased to report too that I've had it running now. Finally got it to fire after putting about 10cc of oil into each cylinder via the exhaust valves, visible and accessible with an oil can via the exhaust port!

 

When you put oil in the cilinders, you get more compression.

I assume that you have worn out or broken piston rings. It's also possible that they are stuck to the pistons.

 

When you use parrafin, the engine will start smoother and much quicker.

 

Blue smoke is oil.

Black smoke is diesel.

Grey/white smoke is water.

 

At last the decompression and compression stand.

304decompressiestand.jpg

Edited by bronssie

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The engine or the governor?

 

I don't think Tony does much work now which, I'm told, is why their reputation is waning.

 

Or were you havin a larf? I'd ask RLWP as first choice actually...

 

 

MtB

 

 

Just to set the record straight, Tony is still quite active in the running of the business even at his age of 75.

 

As far as we are aware, our reputation is as strong as ever, and we would appreciate it if anyone has any legitimate queries to please contact us in the first instance, rather than idle gossip

 

01327 700219

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I'd strongly suggest that you don't run the engine until the internal condition is known as you are likely to destroy components that just needed a little tlc. You might seize it and or damage the crankshaft/bearings.

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Prop sounds a bit small to me too. Given 20 bhp @ 1000 rpm (when running right wink.png) something closer to 24" x 22" would seem close with 2:1 reduction.

 

Seems to accelerate most of the time on just one cylinder.

At those rpm and power i would look at the cowther prop for a rn sort of size as above its around 24-25inch but not sure on pitch

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