Speedwheel Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 I can give you a couple of contacts who work on older fuel pumps Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bargemast Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Maybe this book will give you some more information about your SAMOFA 2-S-108 http://www.samofa.nl/Samofa/Products/Paginas/Samofa_S108_serie_2_cylinder_files/OnderdelenBoek_S108.pdf Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
by'eck Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 (edited) Thanks for the replies Bengo and SR. One big difference I notice between the marine version (which I believe I have) and the industrial version is the flywheel is mounted on opposite ends of the engine. MtB Seems to be quite common with vintage design diesel engines with exposed flywheels and offered with marine or industrial variants . The normally bulky flywheel doesn't easily allow close coupled gearbox for marine use so its put in the correct place on the front. This seems to me to offer some sort of balance with acceleration loads on both ends of the crank. Exceptions are Gardner LW's, Dorman's and four/six cylinder Lister Freedom series, most of which had enclosed flywheels anyway. Edited November 15, 2013 by by'eck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted November 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 Thanks for the answers everyone. I've rigged up the Dynastart and it spins the engine over a treat, and I've drained all the water out from the sump and replaced it with oil :-/ I've filled the injector pump sump with diesel to the brim as suggested and surprisingly it seems to work. I've bled the injector pipes and spinning it over on a rapidly flattening battery results in all the right puffy noises and clouds of pale grey 'smoke' from the exhaust so I have high hopes that it might actually start with a re-charged battery and a blowlamp up the air inlet! One thing bothers me though, there is no obvious method of stopping it if I get it started, other than a rag up the air intake or shutting off the fuel supply. Does anyone know how the designers of the engine intended one to stop a Samofa? MtB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timleech Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 One thing bothers me though, there is no obvious method of stopping it if I get it started, other than a rag up the air intake or shutting off the fuel supply. Does anyone know how the designers of the engine intended one to stop a Samofa? MtB I thought that had been answered, after a fashion, might have been in another thread. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted November 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 I thought that had been answered, after a fashion, might have been in another thread. Tim Yes I had deja vu typing it, but I couldn't find where I'd asked! I'll look harder... MtB Found it... I asked in my Dynastart thread. Should have looked there first. Thanks! MtB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Taylor Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 Hi Mike The injector pump sump should have engine oil in it just like the Simms minimec/majormecs. The level plug if I recall is either a union with a pigtail pipe on it or have a screwdriver slot in it approx halfway down the governor box and take around a quarter of a pint of oil or less. As these pumps age,wear and tear causes the oil to be replaced with diesel and they seem to be quite happy running on it but oil is the correct way to go and will control the engine RPM better. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted November 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 Thanks Geoff. Mine has a banjo connector on it and about 18" of 3/16" steel tube attached, bent into a U shape. Goodness know why! I'll drain it and put some SAE30 in then.... MtB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronssie Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Hi folks, I'm new here on the forum and from Holland, maybe I can help you with the subject Samofa. The real Samofa engines are the types S108 and the 95 series. Later they built licensed Hatz diesels, the 80 series. In the 1980's Mitshubishi bought the shares of Samofa and a few years later the name Samofa dissapeared. If necessery, I can post pictures of the different engines. The best site for Samofa is: http://www.samofa.nl/Samofa/Samofa_Holland.html You will find leaflets, history and a lot of other information. Of course it's in Dutch, but everyone understands pictures and numbers. Another site where you can ask questions (in English) about Samofa is this one: http://bronsforum.xsbb.nl/viewforum.php?f=20 For manuals have a look here: http://bronsforum.xsbb.nl/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=814079 Hope this is of help to you or otherwise, sent me a pm. Bronssie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted February 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Welcome to the forum Bronssie! Thanks for the links, I'll have a read. In the meantime maybe you can answer a question or point me in the right direction please... Not even the marine versions seem to have a water pump. How does the cooling water get pushed around? Maybe I need to read your links! Thanks, MtB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronssie Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) The Samofa type s108 has been produced with 2 watercooling systems. There is a well known system with a plunger pump. There are as far as I know two water plunger systems that were used. (There seem to have been at least 2 fuel pump systems used as well) ! The other system is a sealed cooling system using a radiator and a fan pump. See Photo. The fan pump is located on the opposite side from the fuelpump The flywheel on the s108 engine can be placed on either side There are even some engines with 2 flywheels. As Mr. Bargemast explained on the forum, Samofa was a cooperation between the four big engine producers The shares in the company was as follows: Kromhout 40% Bolnes 20% Industrie 20% Brons 20% At that time it was too expensive for the large engine producers each to retool to make smaller help motors They decided to start a joint project and put a new factory in Harderwijk. Even though the factory opened in April 1950, some Samofa motors had already been sold Because Kromhout were the farthest in their development of the smaller help engines it was decided to use mainly their components to build the engines, They were already producing the 3,4,6 and 8 cylinder engines of this type. So actually the first engines produced were Kromhouts under the Samofa name.. Coincidently, Kromhout also cooperated with Gardner in the U.K. so you could almost say that a Samofa is a Gardner! @ MtB: Would it be possible for you to place a Photo of your Samofa? Could you let me know the engine number? Best regards, Eric bronssie on the forum Edited February 9, 2014 by bronssie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted April 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 Right, an update. Firstly, many thanks to bronssie for such help, advice and interest. Unfortunately the photo links don't work for me. I don't have a note of the engine number but I'll find it next time I'm there and post it here. I'm pleased to report too that I've had it running now. Finally got it to fire after putting about 10cc of oil into each cylinder via the exhaust valves, visible and accessible with an oil can via the exhaust port! The engine is not happy. Runs for the first five minutes on one cylinder with vast volumes of grey smoke before eventually running on both once a bit warm. Is there anything I can check to diagnose this? When running on both cylinders there is a fair amount of mid grey smoke from both the exhaust and wafting out of the (loose) crankcase side covers. Oil pressure is an impressive 2.5PSI at tickover rising to 5PSI at about 500rpm. The engine is easily spun round by the Dynastart when cold, but when hot it can't cope. The pistons seem to have a LOT of friction in the bores mid-stroke. I have to forcefully turn the flywheel manually to approaching TDC where friction is lower before the Dynastart (or the starting handle) can be used to turn it over and re-start. This only happens when hot though. Any comment on what this indicates, anyone? Finally, the blade that came with it is stamped "52.5 - 47.5". It seems to be 52cm diameter so I think it's a safe bet to say it's 47.5cm pitch. This translates to roughly 20.5" x 18.5". This seems WAY too small given the engine has a 2:1 reduction fitted. Here's a vid of it running mainly on one cylinder. I have another vid on my phone of it running more happily on two which I'll try to find and upload shortly. I'm currently wondering if I should just buy another, better Samofa and use this one for spares! MtB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
by'eck Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 (edited) Prop sounds a bit small to me too. Given 20 bhp @ 1000 rpm (when running right ) something closer to 24" x 22" would seem close with 2:1 reduction. Seems to accelerate most of the time on just one cylinder. Edited April 5, 2014 by by'eck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted April 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 Prop sounds a bit small to me too. Given 20 bhp @ 1000 rpm (when running right ) something closer to 24" x 22" would seem close with 2:1 reduction. Seems to accelerate most of the time on just one cylinder. Indeed, and how might one diagnose the reason? Any ideas? Thanks... Second vid (of it running on both cylinders) 45% uploaded.... MtB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
by'eck Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 I think if the correct amount of fuel is correctly sprayed at the correct time into a cylinder at the correct compression it will fire Working back from this premise and bearing in mind its running on one cylinder much better than the other, can you feel similar compression from each cylinder when turning over by hand (if that clever auto decompressor allows that)? If so then injection system may be at fault. Injectors or injection pump, assuming you haven't had it overhauled. What is the cooling system BTW? Rusty bores in wet liners with no water against them are going to get hot very quickly, and the super low oil pressure won't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timleech Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 It looks to me as if very little fuel is being injected in to the non-running cylinder, implying one of - air in pump, faulty pump, faulty injector. Faulty pump seems likeliest to me. Maybe a broken spring. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted April 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 Thanks for your comments. Here's a vid of us running it the second time, once it has started running on both cylinders. There is no cooling system. Maybe this is why it gets stiff when hot. I guess this is the next thing to devise! Mtb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronssie Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 (edited) Im sorry forum members, imageshack deleted the pictures as it is no longer for free.Ill try again.Plungerpump:Plungerpump and rotating pump:In pumphouse Cremer with rotating pump:Samofa 1s108 with 2 flywheel's:Two types of fuelpumps:The last picture shows the knob which you have to use for starting the Samofa.Put it on stand 3. (decompression)Then turn the flywheel round as quikly as you can.When stand 0 shows up, the engine will go automaticly in the compression stand and fire up.hope you understand my English writing. Edited April 5, 2014 by bronssie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronssie Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 (edited) Quote: I'm pleased to report too that I've had it running now. Finally got it to fire after putting about 10cc of oil into each cylinder via the exhaust valves, visible and accessible with an oil can via the exhaust port! When you put oil in the cilinders, you get more compression. I assume that you have worn out or broken piston rings. It's also possible that they are stuck to the pistons. When you use parrafin, the engine will start smoother and much quicker. Blue smoke is oil. Black smoke is diesel. Grey/white smoke is water. At last the decompression and compression stand. Edited April 5, 2014 by bronssie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronssie Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 (edited) Original startermotor: Original dynamo/alternator: Edited April 6, 2014 by bronssie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VintageDiesels Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 The engine or the governor? I don't think Tony does much work now which, I'm told, is why their reputation is waning. Or were you havin a larf? I'd ask RLWP as first choice actually... MtB Just to set the record straight, Tony is still quite active in the running of the business even at his age of 75. As far as we are aware, our reputation is as strong as ever, and we would appreciate it if anyone has any legitimate queries to please contact us in the first instance, rather than idle gossip 01327 700219 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) I miss my Samofa Edited December 9, 2016 by dpaws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mross Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 I'd strongly suggest that you don't run the engine until the internal condition is known as you are likely to destroy components that just needed a little tlc. You might seize it and or damage the crankshaft/bearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrtm Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Prop sounds a bit small to me too. Given 20 bhp @ 1000 rpm (when running right ) something closer to 24" x 22" would seem close with 2:1 reduction. Seems to accelerate most of the time on just one cylinder. At those rpm and power i would look at the cowther prop for a rn sort of size as above its around 24-25inch but not sure on pitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 The pictures say it all really, thanks Paul! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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