Birmingham

[alan_fincher]

I'm not sure that is Birmingham, I didn't risk breaking my neck to walk right up to the bow but my OH did and he said that there wasn't a deck hatch, I will double check on Sunday when we go back.

See my edit to my original post. A near identical looking boat is captioned in a book as being Birmingham. I'm now fully convinced my picture is. No other UCCCo Big Woolwich motor of the period had decoration that looked like that, (or a long haired steerer with a beard - well not on a Woolwich, anyway...)

[allybsc]

See my edit to my original post. A near identical looking boat is captioned in a book as being Birmingham. I'm now fully convinced my picture is. No other UCCCo Big Woolwich motor of the period had decoration that looked like that, (or a long haired steerer with a beard - well not on a Woolwich, anyway...)

You are probably right and I'm more likely wrong, don't know the boat well enough yet! I will certainly try to get a copy of the book and take a better look at the weekend. Do you have an approximate date for the picture?

Edited September 10, 2012 by allybsc

[alan_fincher]

You are probably right and I'm more likely wrong, don't know the boat well enough yet! I will certainly try to get a copy of the book and take a better look at the weekend. Do you have an approximate date for the picture?

Pretty certain we are talking Summer 1973 for my picture.

 

Not that I have ever shown any great interest in this boat (!), here are a few recent shots.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[allybsc]

Pretty certain we are talking Summer 1973 for my picture.

 

 

 

What great pictures, love 'em! When we came back from Etruria on Jubilee weekend we saw that sign nailed to the side and hoped it was a for sale sign, it wasn't exactly but as luck would have it we managed to get David to sell it to us anyhoo! You can see why we fell in love. Loads of work to be done, I can't wait to get stuck in!

[alan_fincher]

Having looked, my brother Mike does have a close up picture of the back end of the boat taken in London, also in the 1970s, (in a side arm at Hampstead Road, being my best guess from the background)

 

It's not my place to give his photos away without checking, (he had some thoughts about publishing some, at one point), but will ask if I can send you a copy.

 

Better than my efforts, if he agrees, although the background isn't very pretty.

[allybsc]

Having looked, my brother Mike does have a close up picture of the back end of the boat taken in London, also in the 1970s, (in a side arm at Hampstead Road, being my best guess from the background)

 

It's not my place to give his photos away without checking, (he had some thoughts about publishing some, at one point), but will ask if I can send you a copy.

 

Better than my efforts, if he agrees, although the background isn't very pretty.

 

Thank you, I really would appreciate it.

[allybsc]

A

EDIT:

 

Actually comparing that shot to a picture in the Ian J Wilson book "Grand Union Canal From Brentford to Braunston", which shows Birmingham also coaling, but at Cosgrove lock "c. 1970", the deck board and front end decoration are such a perfect match, that I'd be amazed if my picture is not of Birmingham. Mine is a little later, based on comparing paintwork condition.

 

The book picture (its on page 72), is a much better composition, so you might like to see if you can get hold of a copy of that you can legitimately use ?

 

Is this the picture? If so then they are one and the same.My link

Edited September 10, 2012 by allybsc

[mykaskin]

I've only ever seen one on Darley, looks very smart on it.

 

Try to lift it, and then you'll see...

 

Mike

[alan_fincher]

Is this the picture? If so then they are one and the same.My link

BINGO!

 

There you go then.

 

Very much clearer than in the book, where it was not obvious it had started life in colour.

 

The book identifies it as "Birmingham" - I believe it is, and the match to my photo seems 100%. No other one came close to matching these exact decorations.

 

So if the picture is on a web-site, you can at least link to it.....

 

Can't find any "Sickle" pictures can you ?

 

EDITE TO ADD:

 

Another historic boat in that picture to, of course - the "Linda", which appears to have the very distict claim to fame of being the first semi-diesel powered motor boat FMC actually ran.....

 

HNBC Linky - "Linda"

Edited September 10, 2012 by alan_fincher

[allybsc]

Try to lift it, and then you'll see...

 

Mike

Is it heavy then?

 

BINGO!

 

There you go then.

 

Very much cleaer than in the book, where it was not obvious it had started life as a transparency.

 

The book identifies it as "Birmingham" - I believe it is, and the match to my photo seems 100%. No other one came close to matching these exact decorations.

 

So if the picture is on a web-site, you can at least link to it.....

 

Can't find any "Sickle" pictures can you ?

Brilliant, I was a twerp to even doubt you, I bet I go on Sunday and that hatch is there as plain as day! I'll consult prof Google and see what I can come up with

Edited September 10, 2012 by allybsc

[mykaskin]

Is it heavy then?

 

 

Brilliant, I was a twerp to even doubt you, I bet I go on Sunday and that hatch is there as plain as day! I'll consult prof Google and see what I can come up with

 

Oh yes! Many found their way accidentally into the cut, I can't remember where Blossom said his was from, somewhere like Suttons or other similar famous canal location.

 

Have you tried:

 

http://www.virtualwaterways.co.uk/home.html

 

for pictures and stuff? Though you'll have exactly the same problems with searching as with Google.

 

Mike

[alan_fincher]

Though you'll have exactly the same problems with searching as with Google.

From that perspective I can't imagine a worse name than "Birmingham"! Now if you had bought (say) "Bilster".......

 

I used to research my family history in Tring, Hertforshire.

 

Now "Tring" you might think is a good search term ?

 

Not so - far too many people can't spell the word "trying", so I constantly got (things like)....

 

"I am tring to find out about my Jones ancestors".....

[allybsc]

Oh yes! Many found their way accidentally into the cut, I can't remember where Blossom said his was from, somewhere like Suttons or other similar famous canal location.

 

Have you tried:

 

http://www.virtualwaterways.co.uk/home.html

 

for pictures and stuff? Though you'll have exactly the same problems with searching as with Google.

 

Mike

I don't think the roof could support one in it's current state!

 

Thanks, I've tried that archive before, I'll just have to get creative with the searches!

 

From that perspective I can't imagine a worse name than "Birmingham"! Now if you had bought (say) "Bilster".......

 

I used to research my family history in Tring, Hertforshire.

 

Now "Tring" you might think is a good search term ?

 

Not so - far too many people can't spell the word "trying", so I constantly got (things like)....

 

"I am tring to find out about my Jones ancestors".....

 

I did my family tree too but as a Ramshaw it was much easier.

[Laurence Hogg]

Congratulations from Banstead and Bodmin. Be warned of the windy day!

 

Did the butty doors always just have a flat door with a recess, rather than the raised panel of the motor?

All the pictures of the boats in original form are in that style. Despite what people "assume" the doors were just a plain grey as was the interior, very dull I would imagine to families used to more decorated boats.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Laurence Hogg

[madcat]

Lawrence any idea what sort of grey? it looks a bit grim in the photo and an all grey cabin interior must have been dismal.If I ever catch up with you anywhere I must have a conversation about pantone colour numbers.I haven't a clue on that system being only familiar with RAL and the varieties of BS numbers.

[Laurence Hogg]

I don't think the roof could support one in it's current state!

 

I dont think Mike knows what he's talking about, they are not heavy at all, just enough to sit in place. I have only heard of two being found in the cut but there were a collection at Bulls Bridge in the stores many moons ago.

cheers,

Laurence

[Laurence Hogg]

Lawrence any idea what sort of grey? it looks a bit grim in the photo and an all grey cabin interior must have been dismal.If I ever catch up with you anywhere I must have a conversation about pantone colour numbers.I haven't a clue on that system being only familiar with RAL and the varieties of BS numbers.

 

When I was researching colours for use on scale model narrow boats which I built in the 1970's- 90's I had a Pantone colour sheet and used to match original paint to the nearest colour. The grey was present on some of the interior of our small Ricky motor "Neptune" and was original, it matched to Pantone 422 a mid/light grey. Also present was a darker shade Pantone 424.

There was no other paint under this so that proved it was original. I also found the original GU blues and Coronation Red white and blue still extant on the engine room casing.

 

"Neptune" is at present of unknown whereabouts but I reckon wherever she is that the engine room and back cabin may still have that evidence.

 

To convert Pantone to RAL is fairly easy try this for starters: http://www.dtp2.nl/ralpantoneconversion.html

Edited September 10, 2012 by Laurence Hogg

[Carl Ryan]

I have a couple of pictures of Braunston in the early seventies perhaps Birmingham is amongst the boats here. Apologies for the fact they were out of focus, I thought it was just the 70's.

 

 

 

[madcat]

Thanks Lawrence,hope to catch up with you somewhere.I have bookmarked that link for future referance. I'm not planning any grey doors,its 1973 on Halsall and life is still out of focus!

Great photos Carl.

 

Allybsc if I have any photos of your boat they will be from fairly recent times but I will look.May take me a while due to being "out of focus " most of the time

[Blossom]

Hi Ally and many congratulations on acquiring Birmingham she is a nice unspoilt boat. Mikey was right on both counts regarding the funnel on Darley. It is an original and not a reproduction and it came up with the dredging's from Sutton's Stop. Take it from me as well it IS heavy and it is a struggle to lift it out the engine 'ole to the cabin top. Having boated with it in place, I don't think it was so much the weight that the boatmen did not like, as it fits easily under the majority of bridges without the need for removal, it's the fact that they don't work. The exhaust fumes/smoke do not get blown out with any force, they just seem to accumulate inside the funnel, then drift out in a cloud towards the steerer's breathing zone. Besides when you are 'giving it some' the fumes seem to prefer to come from underneath the funnel and blacken the cabin top instead. I only put Darley's funnel on at shows etc. now. I'm sure I saw Birmingham come past our garden the other night followed very closely by Starling. Look forward to seeing you out and about soon

cheers

Blossom.

[allybsc]

I have a couple of pictures of Braunston in the early seventies perhaps Birmingham is amongst the boats here. Apologies for the fact they were out of focus, I thought it was just the 70's.

 

 

 

Fantastic, they are brilliant pictures, I'll have a good look. The entire decade was out of focus for me

 

Thanks Lawrence,hope to catch up with you somewhere.I have bookmarked that link for future referance. I'm not planning any grey doors,its 1973 on Halsall and life is still out of focus!

Great photos Carl.

 

Allybsc if I have any photos of your boat they will be from fairly recent times but I will look.May take me a while due to being "out of focus " most of the time

 

Seems a few of us were out of focus in the 70's <guffaw> All pictorial contributions gratefully accepted x

 

Hi Ally and many congratulations on acquiring Birmingham she is a nice unspoilt boat. Mikey was right on both counts regarding the funnel on Darley. It is an original and not a reproduction and it came up with the dredging's from Sutton's Stop. Take it from me as well it IS heavy and it is a struggle to lift it out the engine 'ole to the cabin top. Having boated with it in place, I don't think it was so much the weight that the boatmen did not like, as it fits easily under the majority of bridges without the need for removal, it's the fact that they don't work. The exhaust fumes/smoke do not get blown out with any force, they just seem to accumulate inside the funnel, then drift out in a cloud towards the steerer's breathing zone. Besides when you are 'giving it some' the fumes seem to prefer to come from underneath the funnel and blacken the cabin top instead. I only put Darley's funnel on at shows etc. now. I'm sure I saw Birmingham come past our garden the other night followed very closely by Starling. Look forward to seeing you out and about soon

cheers

Blossom.

 

Hello Blossom,

Many congratulations on your recent award, Darley looks amazing.

 

Derek and I are over the moon with her, looking forward to the fun and frolics of having an unconverted boat! You did indeed see them coming down from Knighton together, we followed on in the car to see her on Friday! We've got a bit of work to do, some stuff we can't do but I'm going to do the painting. We will be out and about while we wait for the big stuff to be done and will be at the port come Easter.

Edited September 10, 2012 by allybsc

[Laurence Hogg]

Hi Ally and many congratulations on acquiring Birmingham she is a nice unspoilt boat. Mikey was right on both counts regarding the funnel on Darley. It is an original and not a reproduction and it came up with the dredging's from Sutton's Stop. Take it from me as well it IS heavy and it is a struggle to lift it out the engine 'ole to the cabin top. Having boated with it in place, I don't think it was so much the weight that the boatmen did not like, as it fits easily under the majority of bridges without the need for removal, it's the fact that they don't work. The exhaust fumes/smoke do not get blown out with any force, they just seem to accumulate inside the funnel, then drift out in a cloud towards the steerer's breathing zone. Besides when you are 'giving it some' the fumes seem to prefer to come from underneath the funnel and blacken the cabin top instead. I only put Darley's funnel on at shows etc. now. I'm sure I saw Birmingham come past our garden the other night followed very closely by Starling. Look forward to seeing you out and about soon

cheers

Blossom.

The fumes do drift about and come out of the bottom if its just a void. I am not sure if any of the survivors is actually complete? Ours has a pipe inside the funnel which connects with the exhaust so we dont have that problem, my understanding was that they drew the stench up the loo pipe and it drifted back for the steerer to enjoy. Our loo is not vented so no problem.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Laurence Hogg

[pete harrison]

I guess the new owner of Birmingham may already have been in touch with Pete Harrison ?

 

If not, (and I hope Pete doesn't mind me saying this!), PM him, because he is always helpful in giving you the data he has collected on a boat, particularly if you have completed a purchase, so it is not being considered when making the transaction.

I have deliberately not contributed to this thread as in the very first posting 'allybsc' stated "I'm quite prepared to put the work in rather than expecting to be given chapter and verse", and I am quite happy with that. However things change and once I have 'allybsc''s e-mail address I shall see what I can do PM sent.

[allybsc]

I have deliberately not contributed to this thread as in the very first posting 'allybsc' stated "I'm quite prepared to put the work in rather than expecting to be given chapter and verse", and I am quite happy with that. However things change and once I have 'allybsc''s e-mail address I shall see what I can do PM sent.

I've found out quite a lot from trawling the web, just need to flesh it out with stories of real people. I'm only home for ten minutes as my son has just been rushed to hospital, so I'm going to disappear for a while. I'll PM you my email before I go back. Thank you very much.

[johnthebridge]

Very fond of the old Birmingham. She was the first big Grand Union I ever steered and the first Woolwich back cabin I slept in. The UCC steerer who had her the most in the '70s was my friend, Andy Iddins, with his wife Liz. One night, long after the old (I use the word advisedly) Globe at Linslade had closed it's doors, and we were all "with heavy waters taken", Andy, an adroit and atheletic individual, demonstrated his skill in "tightrope walking" by actually walking up the back-end line from the bank to the boat and back down again, without holding on to anything or falling. You try it.....

Hope your son's alright.