Please give your solid fuel stoves some respect.

[Timleech]

Technical point to make here. The risk of an LPG cylinder 'going bang' is actually quite small, but it depends what you mean by 'go bang'.

 

If you mean explode due to the inside pressure rising and splitting the bottle open and the whole of the contents igniting in one instant, then no this is highly unlikely. LPG bottles have a device called a 'burst disc' to prevent this happening.

 

The burst disc is a plastic disc that melts and discharges the gas contents in a controlled manner, so I understand. This results in a large and seriously dangerous spout of flame issuing from the LPG bottle but there is no bang, and the danger is much reduced from the danger presented by a proper explosion.

 

You can see the burst disc on any PLG bottle, it is the red plastic disc on the back of the connection valve.

 

I'm saying this as an LPG gas bod. There might be errors in my explanation that the fire service bods can correct.

 

Mike

 

I've seen LPG bottles which have split wide open after being in a fire. It was 40 years ago, they may well be more safely constructed now.

 

Tim

[Guest]

Technical point to make here. The risk of an LPG cylinder 'going bang' is actually quite small, but it depends what you mean by 'go bang'.

 

If you mean explode due to the inside pressure rising and splitting the bottle open and the whole of the contents igniting in one instant, then no this is highly unlikely. LPG bottles have a device called a 'burst disc' to prevent this happening.

 

The burst disc is a plastic disc that melts and discharges the gas contents in a controlled manner, so I understand. This results in a large and seriously dangerous spout of flame issuing from the LPG bottle for several seconds but there is no bang, and the danger is much reduced from the danger presented by a proper explosion.

 

You can see the burst disc on any PLG bottle, it is the red plastic disc on the back of the connection valve.

 

I'm saying this as an LPG gas bod. There might be errors in my explanation that the fire service bods can correct.

 

Mike

 

Interesting Mike cheers.

[MtB]

I've seen LPG bottles which have split wide open after being in a fire. It was 40 years ago, they may well be more safely constructed now.

 

Tim

 

I believe they are a recent introduction, at within the last 20 years or so.

 

I'd be interested in more anecdotal evidence about whether LPG bottles explode in a fire, or if the burst discs reliably prevent explosions.

[calamity507]

Being married to a retired fireman..who has been involved with gas bottles that did explode..blew the bottoms out.. I am not sure Mike..but wont be putting it to the test.

[cotswoldsman]

On a similar thread a couple of years ago, one member quoted a cause of fire from the phenomena called 'Pyrolysis', where even though the enclosed fire appeared to be safe, the surrounding ambient temperature was such that articles close to the stove began decomposing which led to combustion.

 

I've certainly been responsible in the past, for leaving the bottom door slightly open when relighting the fire, only to be distracted and on return, finding that the fuel is being superheated by the updraught of the open door and the stove is in a dangerous state.

 

Also, too many boat builders fail to adhere to the instruction manual when installing stoves on narrow boats. The minimum clearance between the fire and furniture is all too often ignored with potentially fatal consequences.

 

I had a fire on my boat 3 years ago caused by the fact that the boat builder had forgotten to put Fire Boards behind the fire!!!!!!!

[blackrose]

My main concern at the moment is the heat transfered by the flue. I am confident that the stove surround will be suitably non-combustible.

 

Just how hot does a steel flue pipe get and how likely is it to transfer enough heat for it to set fire to paneling etc. With my intended set up i can only achieve about 7" clearance, as it approaches the roof, around my 4" flue which is outside the recommendation on the BSS diagram.

 

Why not just line the "affected area" behind the flue with masterboard and then some decorative finish (tiles, copper-effect anodised aluminium, etc)?

 

 

The vitreous enamel flue in this picture has since been replaced with a single section of steel flue, and before anyone says anything I do realise that the basket of kindling is too close to the stove and defeats the object of all that fireproof lining! But it's a big stove and the heat isn't that intense - I've never found anything scorched.

Edited January 22, 2012 by blackrose

[sheriff]

Why not just line the "affected area" behind the flue with masterboard and then some decorative finish (tiles, copper-effect anodised aluminium, etc)?

 

 

The vitreous enamel flue in this picture has since been replaced with a single section of steel flue, and before anyone says anything I do realise that the basket of kindling is too close to the stove and defeats the object of all that fireproof lining! But it's a big stove and the heat isn't that intense - I've never found anything scorched.

Ive got the same cooper sheeting in a corner on top of fireboard..looks nice...the beauty of a widebeam you can have plenty of space around the fire...(mines a nb)I have two upright coal containers as well to dry the coal/and keep it dry.....I think the kindling is ok there...

 

before I go to bed I unlock front door latches and move my kindling and coal further away..and shift any shoes or items that could get in my way if I need to exit in the dark efficently.

[Guest]

Ive got the same cooper sheeting in a corner on top of fireboard..looks nice...the beauty of a widebeam you can have plenty of space around the fire...(mines a nb)I have two upright coal containers as well to dry the coal/and keep it dry.....I think the kindling is ok there...

 

before I go to bed I unlock front door latches and move my kindling and coal further away..and shift any shoes or items that could get in my way if I need to exit in the dark efficently.

 

I must admit it's not much further away than the wood and kindling on our boat, never had a problem yet but perhaps something for us to think about.

[Chertsey]

What sort of food, other than fat, spontaneously combusts like this?

I wouldn't leave a chip pan, or indeed anything frying, unattended - but a stew? Really? Even if it boils dry and is completely ruined, would it really burst into flames?

[Guest]

I had a fire on my boat 3 years ago caused by the fact that the boat builder had forgotten to put Fire Boards behind the fire!!!!!!!

 

There was some interesting pictures posted on here some time ago showing badly scorched wood behind tiles, the consequence of doing just that IIRC.

 

What sort of food, other than fat, spontaneously combusts like this?

I wouldn't leave a chip pan, or indeed anything frying, unattended - but a stew? Really? Even if it boils dry and is completely ruined, would it really burst into flames?

 

Interesting point - we once had a kitchen pan fire at home whilst steaming a pud and in the in the process managed to boil it dry - but it was fat that had dripped from under the 'hat' on the pudding basin that ignited.

[Arthur Brown]

IMO if the original post and links were noted as chip pan fires the "boat" bit would be irrelevant, just another known problem occurring.

 

Still fire on board is probably one of the worst possible emergencies.

[cotswoldsman]

There was some interesting pictures posted on here some time ago showing badly scorched wood behind tiles, the consequence of doing just that IIRC.

 

 

 

 

 

I am sure I posted mine at the time, but can not find the pics, but it was a fire not not scorched wood will have another look.

[blackrose]

What sort of food, other than fat, spontaneously combusts like this?

I wouldn't leave a chip pan, or indeed anything frying, unattended - but a stew? Really? Even if it boils dry and is completely ruined, would it really burst into flames?

 

Depends who's cooking it. Some stews I've eaten taste like they've been flambéd.

[calamity507]

Dont do what I did..chip pan fire..knew exactly what I should have done. Throwing the washing up water at it wasnt quite right..embarrasing when hubby turns up with blue lights and two tones. Hes never let me live that down.

[sheriff]

Dont do what I did..chip pan fire..knew exactly what I should have done. Throwing the washing up water at it wasnt quite right..embarrasing when hubby turns up with blue lights and two tones. Hes never let me live that down.

Have a friend who has a chip pan on the go a lot.......BIG 'NO NO' for me......do you still have a chip pan...I thought you could get those closed all in one electric chip cookers now which only use a very small amount of oil

[Timleech]

Have a friend who has a chip pan on the go a lot.......BIG 'NO NO' for me......do you still have a chip pan...I thought you could get those closed all in one electric chip cookers now which only use a very small amount of oil

 

Not very good from batteries though.

 

Not that I would entertain a stove top chip pan, even in a static house, never mind in a movable boat.

 

Tim

[sheriff]

Not very good from batteries though.

 

Not that I would entertain a stove top chip pan, even in a static house, never mind in a movable boat.

 

Tim

I was assuming from a genny....I would not have one in a house also...

I try to keep things as simple and safe as possible

[blackrose]

Not very good from batteries though.

 

Not that I would entertain a stove top chip pan, even in a static house, never mind in a movable boat.

 

Tim

 

Chip pan on hob on the tidal Thames down to Limehouse - that's the challenge!

 

We should make this forum like Top Gear but for boats!

Edited January 22, 2012 by blackrose

[calamity507]

We are talking 1970 , was a long time ago , and it was in a house , not on a boat . I do have a chip pan on the boat , but never leave it unattended .

[onionbargee]

The BSS still lets boat fitters put ply and timber behind and around stoves, putting glass fibre board or tiles on top is no good. Another big hole in the BSS.

 

 

The wood, or ply dries out to a super dry state over time, and if the conditions are right and you leave the stove on full blast it will burn.

[sheriff]

The BSS still lets boat fitters put ply and timber behind and around stoves, putting glass fibre board or tiles on top is no good. Another big hole in the BSS.

 

 

The wood, or ply dries out to a super dry state over time, and if the conditions are right and you leave the stove on full blast it will burn.

I am starting to feel justified that I went over the top now with my stove.plenty of space behind and the sides.also brackets I drilled on all four of the legs and screwed into the slab of indian sandstone and further in the subfloor...kept thinking I could of reduced the distances to bss best practise and saved a few inches....

 

glad I never now

[Rob@BSSOffice]

What sort of food, other than fat, spontaneously combusts like this?

I wouldn't leave a chip pan, or indeed anything frying, unattended - but a stew? Really? Even if it boils dry and is completely ruined, would it really burst into flames?

 

Toast - there was a fire last week (not boat) where an extra thick slice of bread got jammed in the toaster and this went on to cause a fire.

 

Grill - a boater was grilling a chop, he fell asleep, the chop/fat caught fire the wood surrounding the cooker caught fire, fumes filled the cabin, the boater died, the fire self-extinguished.

 

Microwave - a hire boat burnt out when a microwave caught fire (I've had personal experience of a m/wave burning out in use)

 

HTH

Rob

 

Out of curiosity bob - what is the main causal link between a stove and a boat fire.

 

They are pretty tightly sealed metal boxes so even with a fire burning furiously inside they should not cause a fire, is it in the main attributable to objects actually out side the stove catching light??

 

So far our findings, as far as we can ascertain, it looks to be about one third installation problems (especially pyrolisis), one third maintenance (tarry flues, poor joints, cracked bodies), one third use (leaving door open, ash disposal, proximity of materials and fuel, etc)

 

HTH

Rob

 

edit - to add link to pyrolisis - BTW this starts to happen at 65 degrees C above ambient temperature which is interesting in the context of Richards excellent temperature information in post #24

Edited January 23, 2012 by Rob@BSSOffice

[sheriff]

Just been looking on narrowboat world.com. narrowboat destroyed by fire.they say it is believed the woodburning stove became so hot it combusted...on the macc canal.

[Rob@BSSOffice]

Hi folks,

Please take care with your solid fuel stoves. There's been two fires already this year and it's only January

Rob

 

... and now its three stove related fires

Essex Fire Service link

 

Firefighters were called to a motor launch boat on fire. Crews reported that the boat was 50 percent alight. Crews wore breathing apparatus and used one hose reel to extinguish the fire by 12:03hrs.

 

The resident of the boat, a 59 year old man has been made homeless. The Red Cross Fire and Emergency Support Service was called to the incident to assist the man.

 

Station Officer Martin Cable from Maldon Fire Station said:

 

"Fire crews were called to a boat on fire which was moored in the marina. Initial reports indicated that a man who lived on the boat could be trapped on board. Crews quickly established that the man was off of the boat at the time of the fire.

 

"Crews tackled the fire and prevented the boat from being completely destroyed. Gangways to the boat were already in place so crews gained access to the moored boat via this route.

 

"The boat was mainly damaged inside the cabin by the heat and the smoke. The fire is believed to have started when bedding stored next to the fuel burner's chimney flue caught fire.

 

"The man was assisted by the Red Cross and the Local Authority."

[onionbargee]

why do you, BSS Rob, always post safety scare stories on here ? a pork chop caught fire, are you having a laugh ?

 

 

( i always fill in a risk assesment, and notify the fire brigade before i put my toast in, and i cone off my tea mug until it's cold, and safe to approach )