SR2 smoking

[bizzard]

Also Ian while your doing the checks that i mentioned there is a very basic way of checking if any of the engines inlet or exhaust valves are burnt out or lost their free play at the tappets and maybe a valve not closing fully thereby causing loss of compression--test as follows.--With engine running.If an inlet valve is faulty a loudish singular kind of throbbing noise would be heard at the inlet manifolds air intake. If an exhaust valve is faulty an odd sort of Donk-chuff sound at the exhaust pipe outlet should be heard,like--Donk-chuff-donk-chuff-donk-chuff,the donk being the good cylinder and the chuff being the duff one.

 

I'm sure we've all made mistakes equally as painful to our ego, so don't worry about it. These things happen.

Roger

 

 

 

Surely if you lost one cylinder completely on a two cylinder engine the tickover couldn't be described as sweet? I would have thought it would have been glaringly obvious just by the sound? I've known one cylinder on a V12 go down and be hard to detect but one on a two should be spottable I would have thought. You are right though that, on such a low power output engine, any loss of cylinder efficiency is going to have a significant effect. Has the decompressor test been done?

Roger

Those engines do sound quite nice on one cylinder.Ian's doing the lever compression test in the week,i've explained it to him.

 

PS To a non mechanics ear these engines running on one cylinder would probably sound quite normal,as they are slow running anyway and long stroke with lots of momentum.

Edited December 12, 2011 by bizzard

[bizzard]

I have a job to go and do now but one last word. A dead or defficient cylinder would feel cooler to the touch than the good cylinder,feel the the valve top covers when the engines running.

[Albion]

 

PS To a non mechanics ear these engines running on one cylinder would probably sound quite normal,as they are slow running anyway and long stroke with lots of momentum.

 

Yep, I know about the flywheel size etc, I used to work for Lister briefly as a contract engineer in the Applications Dept until I rapidly saw where the company was heading and got out.

Roger

[PaulJ]

Recently went to a boat with similar running problems. Would rev perfectly out of gear but soon as I knocked it into gear it wouldnt rev past tickover. Was a Saab 10hp in a Springer so it really needed them revs.

After much head scratching and trying things turned out to be a blocked return fuel line. Was totally blocked because a previous owner had fitted a tap to it (?!) and the new owner had managed to turn it off. Bit of a long shot I know but...

[Pentargon]

Hi Paul I'm doubled up laughing at the prune wot fitted a tap to the return pipe and full marks to your goodself for locating the problem. What sort of a plonker would go to that sort of unneccessary trouble when he could be 'cruising the cut and admiring the kingfishers? Somewhere in here is a definition of the difference between a fitter and a mechanic. The fitter tries to fix it before checking if it's broke. The mechanic checks if it's broke first. Now to find an eejit who wants a redundant tap ....

[claudia]

Hi PaulJ I don't think its this though you have got me thinking, mine will rev right up out of gear and will speed up to a point in gear. I did move the leak off to the tank which I believe is straight in and unlike Penta..... er! somebody else I don't have a tap in the line.

[claudia]

I have done the decompresser test and it still runs with either one across though there is slightly more knock with the front one decomped, not done the other bit as not sure where to get the stuff from. But from this I suppose both cylinders are firing which does not solve my problem. I would describe the problem as driving along with the brakes on, I keep checking that I am not dragging weed and try the into reverse for a bit manouvre, getting very frustrated with this one.

[bizzard]

I have done the decompresser test and it still runs with either one across though there is slightly more knock with the front one decomped, not done the other bit as not sure where to get the stuff from. But from this I suppose both cylinders are firing which does not solve my problem. I would describe the problem as driving along with the brakes on, I keep checking that I am not dragging weed and try the into reverse for a bit manouvre, getting very frustrated with this one.

Is it easy to start when cold.What colour is the exhaust smoke,when under load,Blue,black,grey-black. When running does one cylinder valve cover box get significantly hotter than the other.

This is veering towards the wrong propeller.Too much pitch.

Edited December 13, 2011 by bizzard

[bizzard]

Also Ian,when you changed the fuel filter did the lift pump, pump fuel ok when you worked its lever to bleed air out. The reason i ask is that sometimes an engine will still run ''weakly'' even if the lift pump is not working at all,as the pump should be lower than the tank and often enough fuel will dribble through and so allow the engine to just about run but starved of fuel and feeble. Next time you start it up--With engine running crack open the bleed screw on the fuel filter top and if lift pump is good, good pulsing spurts of fuel should squirt up,with (NO air present).

[claudia]

Morning all, I have no problem starting it at all and when it appears to bog down the smoke is black, there is not a great deal of it but its there. When i changed the filters I also put a new lift pump on and it seemed to pump very well, I will try the while running test though. I will do the heat at each rocker top at the weekend though this time of year it doesn't seem to get hot at all. Hope I don't have to go down the weed hatch and play with the prop again I have just got the feeling back in my arms from the last time and it's much colder now.My thoughts on over proping are if it is slightly to much for the engine would not a long run not slowly allow the forward momentum of the boat increase to allow the engine to get on top of the effort. Would you not see a differance between into the current and with the current, as you see I know nothing but learning all the time.

[Timleech]

Morning all, I have no problem starting it at all and when it appears to bog down the smoke is black, there is not a great deal of it but its there. When i changed the filters I also put a new lift pump on and it seemed to pump very well, I will try the while running test though. I will do the heat at each rocker top at the weekend though this time of year it doesn't seem to get hot at all. Hope I don't have to go down the weed hatch and play with the prop again I have just got the feeling back in my arms from the last time and it's much colder now.My thoughts on over proping are if it is slightly to much for the engine would not a long run not slowly allow the forward momentum of the boat increase to allow the engine to get on top of the effort. Would you not see a differance between into the current and with the current, as you see I know nothing but learning all the time.

 

Just a thought - without reading through all the various threads, I seem to remember you have a 17 x 12 fitted, which should be about right for an SR2 with 2:1 reduction, is that right? Are you absolutely sure it's an SR and not one of the lower powered Listers? Is there a rating plate which tells you it's an SR?

 

Tim

[bizzard]

You say it starts easily when cold,in that case i'd say there's not much wrong with the engine.There's another simple thing to try although i think you said that it will rev up if not on load ''gearbox in neutral''that is the centrifugal governor which stops the engine from over revving,this you can't get at at all easily as the centrifugal weights and springs are in a cluster on the crankshafts camshaft drive gear,with a lever actuating by light spring on the injector pumps rack spindle. But you can override this governor to some extent.Here's how----On the port side of the engine where your engine stop cable should be attached is a smallish plate with one adjustment bolt at the top in an elongated curved slot in the plate.If you scratch a mark on the plate corresponding with the bolt head you can reset it as it was if nec. Slacken this bolt and looking face on to this stop plate,turn it anti-clockwise to the end of the slot,tighten bolt. Start engine and try it but don't let it over rev,be ready to stop the engine on the stop pull or decomp levers.If this does the trick and restores power you may need to adjust the idle speed by the lock nuts on the throttle rod. Now if this works,ok,but you will need to be careful not to over-rev the engine when gearbox is in neutral,i doubt whether it would in gear with prop turning.

[bizzard]

It might not be a bad idea if Claudia agrees, to get the mods to combine the two threads ''Smoking and compression''into one and call it ''Smoking depression''to save us keep jumping from one to tother.

[bizzard]

Just a thought - without reading through all the various threads, I seem to remember you have a 17 x 12 fitted, which should be about right for an SR2 with 2:1 reduction, is that right? Are you absolutely sure it's an SR and not one of the lower powered Listers? Is there a rating plate which tells you it's an SR?

 

Tim

Yes indeed it could be an LR these engines all look similar even the ST all have only small external visual differences.

[bizzard]

Ian how about filming your engine running with sound and sticking it on U-Tube for us to watch and indeed of course the whole world. You might become famous, although you probably are now anyway.

[claudia]

Don't want to be famous but that sounds like a very good idea that is how I get your ears brillient. There is no plate of any kind on it I have followed other threads saying where the data is but mine has nothing, I just assumed it was a SR2. that is what I have been going on and yes I established it had a 2-1 reduction box and fitted a 17x12 left hand prop. Sorry Bizzard but you are starting to get beyond my mechanical ability but I will have a go at the weekend, in the mean time I will do a video.

[bizzard]

Don't want to be famous but that sounds like a very good idea that is how I get your ears brillient. There is no plate of any kind on it I have followed other threads saying where the data is but mine has nothing, I just assumed it was a SR2. that is what I have been going on and yes I established it had a 2-1 reduction box and fitted a 17x12 left hand prop. Sorry Bizzard but you are starting to get beyond my mechanical ability but I will have a go at the weekend, in the mean time I will do a video.

Ahoy Ian. If it is an LR2 the HP will only be around 6 to 9 HP depending on governor setting as opposed to the SR2's 13-14hp.

How do you stop your engine ?by pulling a knob on a cable or turning like a metal switch on the port-side of the engine, because that is where the stop cable runs to, where the stop switch is and THAT IS the little governor adjusting plate that i mentioned.

Also is it a narrow boat and how long.

[Timleech]

Ahoy Ian. If it is an LR2 the HP will only be around 6 to 9 HP depending on governor setting as opposed to the SR2's 13-14hp.

How do you stop your engine ?by pulling a knob on a cable or turning like a metal switch on the port-side of the engine, because that is where the stop cable runs to, where the stop switch is and THAT IS the little governor adjusting plate that i mentioned.

Also is it a narrow boat and how long.

 

There's also the SL, which if I remember correctly is just a bit more powerful than the LR.

 

It might be worth a PM to Chris-B of this parish, if he's not reading this, to ask what external identification features there are between the three models.

 

Tim

[bizzard]

There's also the SL, which if I remember correctly is just a bit more powerful than the LR.

 

It might be worth a PM to Chris-B of this parish, if he's not reading this, to ask what external identification features there are between the three models.

 

Tim

Yes i'd forgotten that one. I've a feeling that Claudia's engine could be a bit of a mixture of different engines bits,as you know this is very possible with these engines if someones made it up,which might make it difficult to identify.

I can't remember the different fittings on the SL &LR i have more experience of the SR's and ST's.

[claudia]

Hi Bizzard I pull my knob to stop it though it does not appear to be very well fitted. There just isn't any markings on it to say what it is but I have done a video, just need someone to come in the office with a full brain cell to do the next bit.

[bizzard]

Hi Bizzard I pull my knob to stop it though it does not appear to be very well fitted. There just isn't any markings on it to say what it is but I have done a video, just need someone to come in the office with a full brain cell to do the next bit.

Is your knob on a shortish rod at the ''front''starter- ring-gear,cabin side end of the engine, or is it on a cable?. The other end of either should lead to the governor adjusting plate thats held by one bolt.

[Albion]

Don't want to be famous but that sounds like a very good idea that is how I get your ears brilliant. There is no plate of any kind on it I have followed other threads saying where the data is but mine has nothing, I just assumed it was a SR2. that is what I have been going on and yes I established it had a 2-1 reduction box and fitted a 17x12 left hand prop. Sorry Bizzard but you are starting to get beyond my mechanical ability but I will have a go at the weekend, in the mean time I will do a video.

 

But unfortunately if your assumption is incorrect and you have, in truth, a lower power engine then all the calculations for prop sizing (despite determining the correct gearbox ratio etc), will go out of the window even if done by a specialist because they will use the higher hp figures for the engine you have nominated. Do I remember you saying in an earlier post that Crowthers had confirmed the correct size? It is vital to determine the correct engine for correct prop calculations.

Roger

[claudia]

[bizzard]

Ahh 21st Century Fox. Nice one. Sounds ok,one cylinder not quite doing as much work as the other but that might be down to the de-comp levers mal-adjustment.

I know which engine it isn't and that's an ST2.

The thing that worries me is that,that engine looks as if its got cold start oil cups,one for each cylinder between the valve covers and air cleaner,they are plungers to force a drop of engine oil into the air inlet ports to raise the compression ratio to aid starting by hand in very cold weather.I personally can't remember ever seeing them on an SR2 marine.

My old manual says that these were fitted as standard on ''LR engines'' and only fitted to SR's when operated in temperatures

below -8c this is from the old Lister marine engine manual.The industrial versions of all these engines can have all manner of differences,and about 50% of these engines in boats tend to be converted industrial engines anyhow often carried out by home mechanics,which is what yours could be,as a lot of external bits and pieces like those cold start oilers,the air-cooling tin plating. Those cold start oiler plungers should pull out if indeed they are oil plungers,they look like it.Try it.

My ST2 has them.

 

PS. I'd say that those cold start oil plungers were standard on an non electric start industrial handle start SR2 engine,this would also account for the starter ring-gear not being on the flywheel,but added later to the camshaft at the other end of the engine,also your engine to gearbox bell housing looks non marine but an industrial engines one.For these reasons i'd say it ''probably'' is an SR2.

Edited December 14, 2011 by bizzard

[claudia]

Firstly Claudia is a 1977 unknown builder 33 foot cruiser stern narrow boat that has certainly seen better days. The stop is a cable going to a cam on the port side of the engine. The video shows the engine being started for the first time today in a temperature of 3 degrees.