Lister FR2

[Judd]

I have a FR2 circa about 1954.My problem is that when cruising the engine revs will suddenly drop ,lose all power ,blow out black smoke.I have cruised daily for 3 weeks before it occurs and as little as 1 hour.I have managed to get going by opening the bleed nut on top ofthe fuel filter cup to let out air before fuel appears but sometimes I also had to bleed the injectors.

3 different engineers have had a go at sorting it but the problem still remains.

The injectors were removed for testing and cleaning -they were OK

A new electric fuel pump was fitted [although I dont think anything was wrong with the old one]

New copper fuel lines have been fitted with new connectons

The fuel filter as been changed at least 3 times [altough the discarded ones were still clean and good]

The fuel tank was emptied and cleaned [to some degree]

The pipe within the fuel tak carrying fuel to the electric pump has been examined and shortened so it should not drag any muck from the bottom of the tank

The tank was filled with new clean diesel and for good measure given a dose of "diesel bug treatment"

 

How or why is air getting into the fuel filter , if it's not air getting in what is causing a vacum or back pressure to form in the top of the fuel filter cup to prevent fuel getting to the injectors

Anyone got any answers suggestions or advice PLEASE

Jim Cooper NB Judd

[MoominPapa]

I have a FR2 circa about 1954.My problem is that when cruising the engine revs will suddenly drop ,lose all power ,blow out black smoke.I have cruised daily for 3 weeks before it occurs and as little as 1 hour.I have managed to get going by opening the bleed nut on top ofthe fuel filter cup to let out air before fuel appears but sometimes I also had to bleed the injectors.

3 different engineers have had a go at sorting it but the problem still remains.

The injectors were removed for testing and cleaning -they were OK

A new electric fuel pump was fitted [although I dont think anything was wrong with the old one]

New copper fuel lines have been fitted with new connectons

The fuel filter as been changed at least 3 times [altough the discarded ones were still clean and good]

The fuel tank was emptied and cleaned [to some degree]

The pipe within the fuel tak carrying fuel to the electric pump has been examined and shortened so it should not drag any muck from the bottom of the tank

The tank was filled with new clean diesel and for good measure given a dose of "diesel bug treatment"

 

How or why is air getting into the fuel filter , if it's not air getting in what is causing a vacum or back pressure to form in the top of the fuel filter cup to prevent fuel getting to the injectors

Anyone got any answers suggestions or advice PLEASE

Jim Cooper NB Judd

 

 

Just to clarify, is the fuel filter which picks up air the one built into the front of the crankcase? If so does it have a Lister "sock" filter installed in there. The volume of that filter chamber is massive and the outlet is at the bottom, so that implies a lot of air if so.

 

What's the plumbing arrangement for the injector leak-off, does it go back to the tank or somewhere later in the fuel system where it could be introducing air?

 

MP.

[steamraiser2]

I suspect that this could be due to a pressure differential across the fuel filter, especially if it is a Lister "rope" type filter. I would clean or ,preferably, change the filter element. At the same time check that the vent in the fuel tank is clear and that the fuel return line from the injectors is flowing back to the tank or to the filter depending on the plumbing.

[bridge100]

Just a thought

If you have a normal fuel tank (not a day tank)

Ive known the feed pipe from the tank to be sucking in air if its corroded

If the tank is full and above the holes it all runs ok

When the level goes down it exposes the holes to the air

[Alice No1]

Hi Jim.Try gravity feeding the engine from a small seperate tank just as a temporary measure.And see if the problem is cured if it is it is down to somewhere in the pipework pump or tank.I have a Lister FR 2 that I am thinking of fitting in my narrowboat.My oil dipstick is missing and could do with a sketch to enable me to make one.I wouldnt mind seeing your boat if its possible please give me a ring 07976233656.Thanks Geoff Peel.

[MoominPapa]

My oil dipstick is missing and could do with a sketch to enable me to make one.

Probably not much use, but the part number is 291-2367/1. My FR has a dry sump and the dipstick is in a non-original remote oil tank, so I can't really help with dimensions, sorry.

 

MP.

[Alice No1]

Probably not much use, but the part number is 291-2367/1. My FR has a dry sump and the dipstick is in a non-original remote oil tank, so I can't really help with dimensions, sorry.

 

MP.

Thanks for your help Geoff

[mykaskin]

I have a FR2 circa about 1954.My problem is that when cruising the engine revs will suddenly drop ,lose all power ,blow out black smoke.I have cruised daily for 3 weeks before it occurs and as little as 1 hour.I have managed to get going by opening the bleed nut on top ofthe fuel filter cup to let out air before fuel appears but sometimes I also had to bleed the injectors.

 

What sort of flow rate do you get if you open the bleed screws on the fuel pump (with ignition/fuel pump on), should be a nice amount without bubbles.

 

Mike

[Judd]

What sort of flow rate do you get if you open the bleed screws on the fuel pump (with ignition/fuel pump on), should be a nice amount without bubbles.

 

Mike

Mike

 

Bubbles then a steady flow of fuel

 

Jim

 

Hi Jim.Try gravity feeding the engine from a small seperate tank just as a temporary measure.And see if the problem is cured if it is it is down to somewhere in the pipework pump or tank.I have a Lister FR 2 that I am thinking of fitting in my narrowboat.My oil dipstick is missing and could do with a sketch to enable me to make one.I wouldnt mind seeing your boat if its possible please give me a ring 07976233656.Thanks Geoff Peel.

Geoff

The engineer did fix a temp gravity feed and the engine ran OK but I cruised The Llangollen canal for 3 weeks before the mystery problem struck earlier ie it is not a consistent continual problem.

I am in the West Mids ,a long way from Skipton but I will make a sketch with dimensions of the dip stick when I go to the boat next

Jim

 

Just a thought

If you have a normal fuel tank (not a day tank)

Ive known the feed pipe from the tank to be sucking in air if its corroded

If the tank is full and above the holes it all runs ok

When the level goes down it exposes the holes to the air

Thanks for your imput

The feed pipe has been checked ,its OK ,and my tank is full.

 

I suspect that this could be due to a pressure differential across the fuel filter, especially if it is a Lister "rope" type filter. I would clean or ,preferably, change the filter element. At the same time check that the vent in the fuel tank is clear and that the fuel return line from the injectors is flowing back to the tank or to the filter depending on the plumbing.

Thanks for your imput

The filter is a modern Crosland type

The vent is clear

I wil check that the return line [direct to the tank] is not obstructed

[Judd]

Just to clarify, is the fuel filter which picks up air the one built into the front of the crankcase? If so does it have a Lister "sock" filter installed in there. The volume of that filter chamber is massive and the outlet is at the bottom, so that implies a lot of air if so.

 

What's the plumbing arrangement for the injector leak-off, does it go back to the tank or somewhere later in the fuel system where it could be introducing air?

 

MP.

Thanks for your imput

The fuel filter is fixed to the front of the crankcase

I dont know what a Lister sock is

The filter sits inside a "cup" and is secured by a bolt running down from the top ,there is also a bleed screw on the top [in fact there is also bleed/drainage screw at the bottom of the "cup"

A modern Crossland fuel filter is fitted

The return line goes back into the tank

[MoominPapa]

Thanks for your imput

The fuel filter is fixed to the front of the crankcase

I dont know what a Lister sock is

 

Unfiltered fuel fills the tank in the front of the the crankcase which contains a long fabric tube filter element, coiled up. This is closed at the inner end and attached to the feed pipe to the injection pumps at the outer end. The fuel flows into the tube, leaving the dirt behind. Looking at the drawing the outlet is in fact quite high, on the bottom side of the removable cap, so it could let air through quite quickly once it starts building up at the top of the tank.

 

MP.

 

 

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

When you bleed the fuel do you bleed from the top bleed nut number 295? My fr no longer has the sock filter in the fuel reservoir there. I had problems with air in my fuel which in the end after replacing every pipe and junction was the isolation stop tap close to the tank that had been disturbed. I have fitted a bypass oil filter as the crude lister mesh is only good for large debris. Blowing black smoke is more an indicator of air blockage than fuel shortage?

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

Dummy question, but are you dropping the high compression starting leaver after the the engine has fired?

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

Hi Jim.Try gravity feeding the engine from a small seperate tank just as a temporary measure.And see if the problem is cured if it is it is down to somewhere in the pipework pump or tank.I have a Lister FR 2 that I am thinking of fitting in my narrowboat.My oil dipstick is missing and could do with a sketch to enable me to make one.I wouldnt mind seeing your boat if its possible please give me a ring 07976233656.Thanks Geoff Peel.

 

 

I have just measured my dipstick, From the shoulder it is six inches long with a full mark at 1 inch and a low mark at 1/2 inch any rod will do solder or weld a washer to form a shoulder and file a 1 inch flat leaving it rough to hold the oil.

[Alice No1]

I have just measured my dipstick, From the shoulder it is six inches long with a full mark at 1 inch and a low mark at 1/2 inch any rod will do solder or weld a washer to form a shoulder and file a 1 inch flat leaving it rough to hold the oil.

 

many thanks should be able to make Geoff