Keep a heading

[Guest]

Staffs & Worcs, either Shutt Hill Lock, or possibly Longford Lock, has some kind of side channel bleeding water down past the lock. It comes out about 30' from the downhill entrance. We are only 30' with a displacement of about 3,500 Kg (dont know the weight, but we're not very heavy) This outlet knocked us sideways across the entrance to the lock. We got in the lock ok, but it wasn't a very elegant manouver.

Question is; how could we have manouvered to keep a correct heading?

The outlet was on our Port side. Should we have moved to Star'bd and come at it at an angle to keep the bow in line - then tiller hard over to Port with revs to stop the stern from being washed away to the right?

All this has to be done about 30' from the lock entrance.

Presume a longer/heavier boat is through and in the lock entrance before being so badly affected ... ?

 

Peter

[nbtafelberg]

Hi Peter

 

I have the same trouble coming into Penton Hook Marina accross the last weir, the force is such that it throws my boat sideways.

 

However I have a 72 foot boat that weighs 22 tonnes so it doesn't just affect small boats, in fact the force is so great that if you don't know how to get out fo the stream quick enough you will hit the first boat in the Marina.

 

If anyone has any advice I'd love to know it.

[David Schweizer]

Come onto the K&A for some training, there are a significant number of locks and bridges where the river flow enters or crosses the canal. It is rumoured that you get amedal if you manage to negotiate all of them, without hitting the side.

[dor]

The Llangollen is also notorious for the ferocity of the lock bywashes, partly due to the volume of water (the canal is used to bring water down from Llangollen to the reservoir at Hurleston) and also poor design which means the water is directed across the lock mouth. Some of the Cheshire Locks flight on the T&M can be pretty entertaining as well.

 

It's all down to practice and experience, but when you have it sorted, it is very satisfying to head towards a lock at 45 degrees and have it all straignten up at the last minute. Of course this only happens when no one is watching; when you have an audience...........

 

Back to your original question: I go in at an angle with the bow well across so it gets pushed into line. You then have to push the tiller well over the other way to keep the stern in place. The trick is to use plenty of power and speed; go too gingerly and you will finish up sideways.

Edited November 29, 2004 by dor

[Paul Evans]

I go with Dor on this one. Point the bow up the flow of the bywash. Allow it to be pushed into line with the lock entrance and swing the tiller to stop the stern from being pushed over by the flow. You need some power on to make it happen and have to be prepared to loose some paint of the hull side. When you've practiced, you will do it perfectly every time there's no audience. Of course, when people are watching sod's law says you will look just like a novice!

 

At least going uphill you can see the bywash coming. Going downhill is a different matter. The secret here is not to be stingy with the throttle. Get a bit of power on and be prepared for some energetic tiller swinging. Sod's law still applies - especially when passing another boat in a short pound!

[Guest]

Dor - Paul, thanks for the confirmation. It's nice to know that I'd worked it out right, now all I've got to do is convince the missus that I know what I'm doin when I try it - and she's hollerin "you're goin too fast"

[Martin]

Of course you never know how strong the bywash current is going to be - so if you head towards a lock at an angle and the current isn't as strong as you thought it would be, you still end up hitting the lock wall!

Willeymoor Lock on the Llangollen is the worst I think - not because the current is strongest, but because there is a pub on the lockside and the gongoozlers just love it when you cock up!

 

My worst personal experience was on the river Avon in flood.

There is one particular lock heading upstream where two weirs join the river below the entrance to a lock.

These weirs are about 70' apart which corresponds nicely to the length of Octarine!

After much thought as we approached, I decided to go for it!

I was well over onto the weir side of the river - prepared to be pushed over in the direction of the lock mouth.

The first weir hit the bow and shoved it over alarmingly and I steered on full throttle to compensate.

The steering effect was lessened as the stern got to the weir - just in time for the bow to meet the second weir!

By the time we got past the second one, the boat was travelling at about 6/7mph so I jammed it into reverse (without winding down the throttle - good these hydraulic boxes!!!) but failed to slow her enough before missing the lock mouth by about two feet!

No damage was done and I can't quite see how I could have done this much better!

[nbtafelberg]

Agreed

 

Just be carefull you don't get the bow past the wash otherwise your boat will be pushed round and might end up facing the otherway or hitting the bank.

 

If you want to try it, try Triggs Lock on the River Wey.

 

http://www.tafelberg.co.uk/html/triggs_lock.html - for details.

 

But if you want a real challenge try getting into Penton Hook Marina on the Thames accross the weir stream, I have in fact contacted the Environment Agency about this stream as it is so powerful, your boat will just go sideways, the whole boat, even if you do the 45 degree thing because the stream is very wide, about 70/75 feet and very fast flowing.

[Paul Evans]

Gulp! Stay away from rivers when the streams up - that's all I can say.

 

And wyeman - don't let the missus watch. Put her in the cabin where she can't see or send her on to set the next lock. You never get it right when somebody's looking!

 

If you can't do that, just pretend you can't hear. Political deafness I think it's called.

[nbtafelberg]

LOL

 

You mean...not go out oh no....

 

I can't do that...

 

I start shaking if I've not been out for a week.

[Paul Evans]

I know what you're feeling......

 

But you could pretend! If your mooring's not too shallow, start the engine, put it in gear - so that you get the authentic wash noise - and stand at the tiller. You could always stick a fan on the hatch to simulate the breeze in your face and fix up some sort of back projection to show films shot from moving boats. The only trouble is that do it too often and the men in white coats arrive.....

 

Just go out when the fancy grabs you.....but take care!

[nbtafelberg]

LOL

 

Yes......hmmm

 

Well there may be a solution but we'll see :-) I'm going to come in right up against the port side instead of the starbourd side, because I reckon I'll be to far over to the left to be affected that much by the flow.

 

I'm just waiting from an email back from the bloke at the environment agency that said my 2 pot lister engine is under powered... here's his email........

 

 

 

I am sorry to here that you are experiencing difficulties traversing the gauge weir stream adjacent to Penton Hook Marina.

 

The current weir pulling order (the order in which the various gates on both the gauge and main weir are operated) has been changed over the years to allow for vessels entering and existing the marina complex.

This was changed after it was discovered that the previous pulling order made it more difficult for larger heavy displacement craft with lower power to weight ratios and our Tugs and barges to traverse the stream.

 

I have checked the tackle movement sheets for the last few weeks and all weir movements are consistent with the agreed pulling order. I can only suggest that either you reconsider your approach given that the green buoy marks where a shoal builds up over high winter flows. In times of high water which are usually associated with high flows there is enough depth of water for shallow drafted vessels to navigate inside the buoy or you may have to consider that your vessel is underpowered for the conditions.

 

Hope this helps. If you want to discuss this further please don't hesitate to give me a call on the above number.

Edited December 1, 2004 by clevett

[Paul Evans]

I've just been looking at the maps on the Penton Hook website and it strikes me that there might be a solution to your problem. But first.....

 

The Yorkshire Ouse, which is tidal past Selby and up to Naburn, makes a sharp left turn (going downstream) as it comes into Selby. Immediately after the turn is a very low bridge with a channel through the centre. Selby lock is on the right hand side shortly after the bridge. I read some advice (but have not, personally, had the opportunity to use it) to the effect that coming downstream on a falling tide you should turn your boat to face upstream before you reach the bend and then stem the flow but not enough to go forward. The idea is that you go down backwards using forward gear to steer the boat. This stops you being pushed against the bank or fetching up on the bridge supports (and gives you the opportunity to start again if it goes wrong). You then drop just below the lock and use heavy forward to steer you into the lock - praying the lock keeper has set it for you. When I went to Selby some years ago with the intention of going up to York, the lock keepers advice was "Tek t'train!" Being a southern wimp, I followed it (but was compensated by lots of Sam Smith's Brewery Bitter at 40p per pint - about half the London price at the time).

 

The point is, could you point the nose of your boat up the weir stream and then reverse into the entrance to the marina, using the flow to move you along and forward gear to steer. You might want to warn other boaters before trying it but if you do they'll all come out to watch and sod's law says....... Practice when nobody's about! Success is not guaranteed.

[James York]

The most effective way to minamise the amount of buffeting is to go at it fast. Taht way your boat has more momentum and the water has less time to act on the boat. However this isn't always praticle.

[nbtafelberg]

Hmm thanks Paul... that might be an option.....

 

James.... I am going at it fast, but this is not just a little stream in front of a lock. This pushes dutch barges over.

 

I'm going to try going on the port side in the slowest part of the flow.

[nbtafelberg]

Latest News from that HELPFUL chap at the Environment Agency

 

I think it would only be useful talking to other people to put your mind at rest that it not only you that experiences difficulty. Unfortunately there is nothing we can do this end when the water begins to flow.

 

Your second point about staying to port coming up river is the correct line to take , the flow should just hold you off from the pontoons. Its the old saying "Follow the Horse' as barge men used to say. If you observe the tugs and barges this is the line they take when the stream increases. Any other vessels wishing to exit / enter at the same time should appraise the situation and hold station. Thames Navigation Licensing and General Byelaws 1993 Part 1 32(a) says If the river has a current or tidal flow, the master of every power-driven vessel navigating against the current or tidal flow shall, if necessary in order to avoid the risk of collision, ease the speed of the vessel or stop the vessel on approaching or when rounding a point or sharp bend so as to allow any vessel navigating with the current or tidal flow to pass clear of his vessel. Essentially this means that boats coming up river should hold station upon seeing a craft that has exited the Marina and is caught by the stream, conversely a vessel which is exiting the marina but has not yet entered the main stream should hold station upon seeing a boat attempting to enter the marina which is caught in the main stream if he believes that there could be a danger of collision.

 

Should you find yourself in a uncomfortable situation it would be wise to signal your intentions to the approaching vessel i.e. One long blast indicating you are moving to starboard, or two long blasts indicating your intention to move to port. You could even go one step further and display a Blue Board (the indication on European Waterways that one is leaving a course for downstream vessels to starboard). Despite the above rules the International Collision Regulations make it clear that it is every Masters responsibility to take action to avoid a collision.

[Paul Evans]

Wouldn't "Tough luck, just don't hit anything" have been a quicker way to say all that? That's bureaucrats for you.

 

And as for holding up a Blue Board, don't you have enough to do.......

Edited December 2, 2004 by Paul Evans

[howardang]

Latest News from that HELPFUL chap at the Environment Agency

 

I think it would only be useful talking to other people to put your mind at rest that it not only you that experiences difficulty. Unfortunately there is nothing we can do this end when the water begins to flow.

 

Your second point about staying to port coming up river is the correct line to take , the flow should just hold you off from the pontoons. Its the old saying "Follow the Horse' as barge men used to say. If you observe the tugs and barges this is the line they take when the stream increases. Any other vessels wishing to exit / enter at the same time should appraise the situation and  hold station. Thames Navigation Licensing and General Byelaws 1993 Part 1 32(a) says If the river has a current or tidal flow, the master of every power-driven vessel navigating against the current or tidal flow shall, if necessary in order to avoid the risk of collision, ease the speed of the vessel or stop the vessel on approaching or when rounding a point or sharp bend so as to allow any vessel navigating with the current or tidal flow to pass clear of his vessel. Essentially this means that boats coming up river should hold station upon seeing a craft that has exited the Marina and is caught by the stream, conversely a vessel which is exiting the marina but has not yet entered the main stream should hold station upon seeing a boat attempting to enter the marina which is caught in the main stream if he believes that there could be a danger of collision.

 

Should you find yourself in a uncomfortable situation it would be wise to signal your intentions to the approaching vessel i.e. One long blast indicating you are moving to starboard, or two long blasts indicating your intention to move to port. You could even go one step further and display a Blue Board  (the indication on European Waterways that one is leaving a course for downstream vessels to starboard). Despite the above rules the International  Collision Regulations make it clear that it is every Masters responsibility to take action to avoid a collision.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually it's 1 SHORT blast or two SHORT blasts respectively.

 

Regards

 

Howard Anguish

[Paul Evans]

You're right of course but I suspect that in Paul's case it should be five or more short and rapid blasts (I do not consider you are taking sufficient action to keep clear of me) followed by frantic arm waving and shouted "Get the **** out of my way"!

[howardang]

You're right of course but I suspect that in Paul's case it should be five or more short and rapid blasts (I do not consider you are taking sufficient action to keep clear of me) followed by frantic arm waving and shouted "Get the **** out of my way"!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Paul, I didn't realise you Southerners used such language

Incidentally re your comments earlier about stemming the current at Selby, this is a common practice and gives much better control, allowing you to "ferry glide" from one side of the river to the other. Try it the next time you are in the Far North.

 

Regards

Howard Anguish

[nbtafelberg]

To be honest the tupperware boats don't know what the horn signals mean.

 

I have always given horn signals before turning round etc but they look at me like I've just grown green hair.

[Paul Evans]

They don't need to know what five or more short blasts on the horn means. If it's accompanied by arm waving and firm words they should get the general drift - and they know a narrowboat is not to be tangled with. And why not wear a green wig just to confirm their worst fears!

[James York]

I wander what sort of look you get when you wear a green wig, blasting the horn five times with arms waving. Could be intresting!

[nbtafelberg]

They'd probably go

 

"Oh look there's a green man waving and tooting his horn...perhaps I should go over and see whats wrong"

[Zoe]

And wyeman - don't let the missus watch. Put her in the cabin where she can't see...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

(selective quoting, I know, but all the newspapers do it, so I can too )

 

Paul are you the guy who told me I should be cooking the tea at Tyrley Locks last summer? I hope not. We were queuing at the first lock and my menfolk had gone ahead to assist at the locks. Cook tea? Not if I can help it - we found an excellent Indian restuarant in Market Drayton. And who the heck did he think was about to steer the boat into the lock?

 

Wyeman - let your wife do the driving, then you can have a hearty laugh when she gets it wrong.

 

I've had a few problems 'shooting the rapids' on various canals myself, it would all be so much easier if that darn wet stuff didn't flow downhill so readily, wouldn't it?

 

Zoë