Children on top of narrowboats

[nb Innisfree]

Canal boating is a very safe pastime but with moments of extreme danger. It's not the obvious things like stepping across lock gates or walking on the roof on Pontcysyllte Aquaduct when the senses are keenly aware of the situation, the problem is for those who are unaware of the potentially fatal dangers lurking in seemingly innocuous situations and who are not aware of the enormous energy stored in a moving boat, seemingly weightless and can be pushed with one finger but it's mass remains unchanged. Same when boats are in reverse, especially in locks, extreme danger when people are unaware of the potential risks but quite safe if they are aware. The world can be a dangerous place but far more dangerous for those with little imagination and understanding of basic physics.

[Naughty Cal]

Canal boating is a very safe pastime but with moments of extreme danger. It's not the obvious things like stepping across lock gates or walking on the roof on Pontcysyllte Aquaduct when the senses are keenly aware of the situation, the problem is for those who are unaware of the potentially fatal dangers lurking in seemingly innocuous situations and who are not aware of the enormous energy stored in a moving boat, seemingly weightless and can be pushed with one finger but it's mass remains unchanged. Same when boats are in reverse, especially in locks, extreme danger when people are unaware of the potential risks but quite safe if they are aware. The world can be a dangerous place but far more dangerous for those with little imagination and understanding of basic physics.

 

Too true but even those who do all the risk assessments they can, still have accidents and still die.

[mayalld]

Too true but even those who do all the risk assessments they can, still have accidents and still die.

 

Yes, because you an never eliminate risk, only mitigate it.

 

Risk management is all about stacking the deck in your favour.

[Naughty Cal]

Yes, because you an never eliminate risk, only mitigate it.

 

Risk management is all about stacking the deck in your favour.

 

Your deck will look very different to my deck for example, however that doesnt mean that my deck is wrong. We all assess risk differently.

[romarni123]

You assume wrongly. There are no seatbelts in the rear of the Sierra yet we dont think twice about jumping in the back or sticking passengers in the back. It is of course MOT taxed and insured as these are legal requirements for car ownership.

 

The vast majority of boating excursions are pulled off without death or injury which indicates that there is little need for further assessments or legislation.

 

Which is ok till you have crash and the back seat passengers come out of their seats and fly out of the window taking half your head with them.

[Naughty Cal]

Which is ok till you have crash and the back seat passengers come out of their seats and fly out of the window taking half your head with them.

 

So should we never use the car?

 

I think not. The car has never been required to have seat belts in the rear seats and will as long as we own it, will never have them fitted. It doesnt have air bags either, nor ABS, nor traction control, nor power steering, nor any number of other modern gadgets we take for granted on the road. It doesnt make this car any less safe than any other on the road.

 

Cars have been fitted with seat belts front and rear for many years now. Doesnt stop people not wearing them and it doesnt stop people being thrown from cars. Some people have been saved by the very fact they were not wearing a seat belt and were thrown clear of the wreckage.

[GeoffS]

Only you can answer those questions for yourself, each of us would assess the risk differently.

 

I, for instance, am quite happy to drive around in my 1984 Sierra that had no airbags, does that mean i dont believe i am not at risk of an accident?

 

 

You assume wrongly. There are no seatbelts in the rear of the Sierra yet we dont think twice about jumping in the back or sticking passengers in the back. It is of course MOT taxed and insured as these are legal requirements for car ownership.

 

The vast majority of boating excursions are pulled off without death or injury which indicates that there is little need for further assessments or legislation.

 

There were seatbelts in the rear of my 1984 Sierra...

 

As to when they became to be compulsory to be fitted I found 2 differing views:

 

Link 1

 

Link 2

[romarni123]

So should we never use the car?

 

I think not. The car has never been required to have seat belts in the rear seats and will as long as we own it, will never have them fitted. It doesnt have air bags either, nor ABS, nor traction control, nor power steering, nor any number of other modern gadgets we take for granted on the road. It doesnt make this car any less safe than any other on the road.

 

Cars have been fitted with seat belts front and rear for many years now. Doesnt stop people not wearing them and it doesnt stop people being thrown from cars. Some people have been saved by the very fact they were not wearing a seat belt and were thrown clear of the wreckage.

 

Your choice, but I would say go and have a look at someone not wearing a seatbelt who has gone through the window of a car its not a nice sight,and of course you dont stop when you go through the window,you then carry on and use the road as a large cheese grater on your face

[Naughty Cal]

There were seatbelts in the rear of my 1984 Sierra...

 

As to when they became to be compulsory to be fitted I found 2 differing views:

 

Link 1

 

Link 2

 

Ours has never had them fitted. When we stripped her to restore the bodywork there was no evidence of there ever having been any fitted. (and no that isnt because it was that rotten ) whereas there was plent of evidence of the roll cage anchorage points.

 

It has never bothered us nor anyone else that has travelled in the car. The 1981 Fiesta we had was the same, only seat belts up front.

[Sir Nibble]

Which is ok till you have crash and the back seat passengers come out of their seats and fly out of the window taking half your head with them.

But this has not happened and therefore there is no need to worry about it. Similarly, Phylis' sierra being insured purely because this is a legal requirement, nothing to do with just in case of accident, it hasn't happened and therefore cannot. Who needs house insurance? I have neither been burgled nor suffered flood nor fire so since I complete every day without such disasters why mitigate against the possibility of it happening?

No, stick your head in the sand and pretend there is no risk, scoff at namby pambies who give some thought to "just in case". Crash helmet? Tosser! Steel toe boots? Dust mask? Coward! No health and safety busybody can tell me anything. Be brave and admirable, the envy of your friends, take needless risks, it's the adult thing to do.

[Naughty Cal]

Your choice, but I would say go and have a look at someone not wearing a seatbelt who has gone through the window of a car its not a nice sight,and of course you dont stop when you go through the window,you then carry on and use the road as a large cheese grater on your face

 

I have seen someone go through the windscreen of a car. I was fortunate not to have been in the accident itself and as such was one of the first people on the scene. No it is not a pretty sight to see someone who has flown from a car and then skittled down the M18, but neither is it a pretty sight to see his mate who is trapped by the dashboard and engine upside down in his rolled car.

[Sir Nibble]

So should we never use the car?

 

I think not. The car has never been required to have seat belts in the rear seats and will as long as we own it, will never have them fitted. It doesnt have air bags either, nor ABS, nor traction control, nor power steering, nor any number of other modern gadgets we take for granted on the road. It doesnt make this car any less safe than any other on the road.

Yes it does.

[romarni123]

I have seen someone go through the windscreen of a car. I was fortunate not to have been in the accident itself and as such was one of the first people on the scene. No it is not a pretty sight to see someone who has flown from a car and then skittled down the M18, but neither is it a pretty sight to see his mate who is trapped by the dashboard and engine upside down in his rolled car.

 

Well I know which one i would prefer

[Naughty Cal]

But this has not happened and therefore there is no need to worry about it. Similarly, Phylis' sierra being insured purely because this is a legal requirement, nothing to do with just in case of accident, it hasn't happened and therefore cannot. Who needs house insurance? I have neither been burgled nor suffered flood nor fire so since I complete every day without such disasters why mitigate against the possibility of it happening?

No, stick your head in the sand and pretend there is no risk, scoff at namby pambies who give some thought to "just in case". Crash helmet? Tosser! Steel toe boots? Dust mask? Coward! No health and safety busybody can tell me anything. Be brave and admirable, the envy of your friends, take needless risks, it's the adult thing to do.

 

As i said we all assess risk in different ways. What you see as a risk someone else wont.

 

Romarni sees not having seat belts in the rear of the car as a risk, i see having lose items on the parcel shelf more of a risk. Neither of us is right or wrong.

[Sir Nibble]

There have been a small number of people injured by incorrectly used seatbelts. There have been deaths caused by poorly fitting crash helmets. However, fear of drowning is a very poor reason to die of thirst.

[Naughty Cal]

Yes it does.

 

Why does it?

 

Do you think the same of all classic cars?

[romarni123]

As i said we all assess risk in different ways. What you see as a risk someone else wont.

 

Romarni sees not having seat belts in the rear of the car as a risk, i see having lose items on the parcel shelf more of a risk. Neither of us is right or wrong.

 

Well that would be a silly thing to do as well

[Naughty Cal]

Well I know which one i would prefer

 

A broken arm and a few bruises and grazes or a smashed pelvis, two broken legs and a broken collar bone plus internal injuries.

 

I know which i would prefer.

[Sir Nibble]

As i said we all assess risk in different ways. What you see as a risk someone else wont.

 

Romarni sees not having seat belts in the rear of the car as a risk, i see having lose items on the parcel shelf more of a risk. Neither of us is right or wrong.

Are you insane!!? You see a loose item on the parcel shelf as more of a risk than a loose person in the back!? What's the worse thing that could hit you in the back of the neck, a box of tissues, a lunchbox or a 70 kilo person.

Dimwit.

[Naughty Cal]

Are you insane!!? You see a loose item on the parcel shelf as more of a risk than a loose person in the back!? What's the worse thing that could hit you in the back of the neck, a box of tissues, a lunchbox or a 70 kilo person.

Dimwit.

 

Given that it is a rare occasion we have someone in the back then yes a lose item on the parcel shelf is much more of a danger than our non existant person rattling around lose in the back.

[Sir Nibble]

Why does it?

 

Do you think the same of all classic cars?

Why?

ABS. Brakes don't lock and the very high risk of a skid in panic breaking in the wet is almost totally removed.

Power steering. High risk of loss of control in the event of tyre deflation at speed almost totally removed.

Seat belts and air bags. Between them save more death and injury than anything since the man with the red flag.

 

Classic cars.

Yes I do think the same of classic cars (what has that to do with a sierra?) Modern cars stop quicker under better control, they hold the road far better and the occupants are far better protected in an accident.

 

It's a no brainer.

Unless you know nothing of cars, driving or brains.

[romarni123]

A broken arm and a few bruises and grazes or a smashed pelvis, two broken legs and a broken collar bone plus internal injuries.

 

I know which i would prefer.

 

So would I and it would not be to go through a window screen

[Naughty Cal]

So would I and it would not be to go through a window screen

 

So you would prefer to have a very long extended stay in hospital and numerous surgical procdures instead of a short trip through the widscreen and a broken arm that is just potted and left to heal?

[romarni123]

So you would prefer to have a very long extended stay in hospital and numerous surgical procdures instead of a short trip through the widscreen and a broken arm that is just potted and left to heal?

 

Oh Phylis what are you like

 

few broken bones bruises and cuts or

 

A badly scarred face if lucky or the top of my head being removed by the road as it hits it going at some speed with a broken neck likely as well

 

now lets see mmm I will have the broken bones thanks

[Naughty Cal]

Why?

ABS. Brakes don't lock and the very high risk of a skid in panic breaking in the wet is almost totally removed.

Power steering. High risk of loss of control in the event of tyre deflation at speed almost totally removed.

Seat belts and air bags. Between them save more death and injury than anything since the man with the red flag.

 

Classic cars.

Yes I do think the same of classic cars (what has that to do with a sierra?) Modern cars stop quicker under better control, they hold the road far better and the occupants are far better protected in an accident.

 

It's a no brainer.

Unless you know nothing of cars, driving or brains.

 

Well the simple answers are dont panic brake, make sure your tyres are in good order before setting out (and by the way modern cars with power steering still have a high risk of loss of control when a tyre blows out or deflates).

 

The Sierra is currently 26 years old so not modern by anybodies standards. There are no laws saying that you have to drive a modern car with all the new fangled toys. I much prefer driving the Sierra with its crudeness than my Datsun Nissan. You get a better feel of what the car wants to or is about to do without all the electrickery getting in the way. This doesnt make the car any less sfae than any other on the road. After all a car is only as safe as its driver and the drivers of other cars around you.

 

There are still thousands of accidents on our roads, even with all the new technology avaliable, until the human is taken out of the equation, there will always be road accidents. Cars can not cover up for driver error.

 

Oh Phylis what are you like

 

few broken bones bruises and cuts or

 

A badly scarred face if lucky or the top of my head being removed by the road as it hits it going at some speed with a broken neck likely as well

 

now lets see mmm I will have the broken bones thanks

 

As it happens his face wasnt badly scarred, just bruised and a few minor cuts. He was lucky and landed on his back. His back was torn and grazed but nothing that hasnt healed in time. His friend (also our friend) wasnt so lucky. There may not be any visible scars when he is normally clothed however the extent of his injuries was horrific and the scaring is there to see.

 

It has not stopped him driving like a nutter nor his firend who went through the screen, neither has it made them any more likely to wear a seatbelt. As i keep saying we all assess risk differently.

 

Some of you think driving at narrowboat at 4mph is risky, it is far from the most dangerous passtime you engage in.