First question. What to look for

[Wyke]

Hi folk,

 

As I mentioned in my introduction post in 3 years I can take early retirement and am looking to sell everything up and spend a few years as a liveaboard. The first thing that I am trying to get a feel for is what I can realistically consider getting as a boat.

 

Doing some quick sums now, I can be looking at having something like £100-£120k to spend on the project. That is for buying a boat then squirreling money away for upkeep cost. Daily living should be covered by my pension payments.

 

I'm looking to solo and continual cruise, with wintering moorings possibly; and perhaps spending 10-15 years doing so, or until my health hits a point that I can't manage the life

 

My initial thought is to go for a narrow-boat, or wide-beam in the 30-40 foot range. However, I live in Hull and that's where my family and friends are, so it would be nice if I can travel the Humber, from the Trent/Derwent to Hull. But I know enough to know that The Humber can be pretty mean even on a good day and even I can see that a flat bottom boat, even a wide-beam would be unsuitable for such a trip. From my initial reading, I think a dutch barge type might be more suitable, but they appear to be more costly to buy, and I will guess will have higher upkeep cost too.

 

The Humber part may be a dream too far, so is not an absolute must, I thought I'd throw that in just in the hope that somebody can suggest something else.

 

OK, after my lengthy preamble my main questions.

 

For a 30-40 foot narrow or wide-beam, how much roughly should i expect it to cost annually to run? I know that this can only be a rough answer, but it is the one thing I am struggling to get a feel for.

 

Next question, is there any mileage in going for new over second hand? As I said, I am looking to settle back down eventually, so in some respects I need to think of resale, eventually.

 

Apologies for the basic and vague nature of my questions. I'm still in the early planning stage of things, but need to get a better idea of what I can realistically look at aiming for before planning further.

 

Thanks again.

 

Dave

[johnmck]

Hi Dave.

 

I am by no means any sort of expert, but will pass on my thoughts. I have hired over some 15 years and believed i knew what i wanted. started planning for a boat for my retirement like you at 55. Visited Crick show each may bank holiday and threw various thoughts at the forum. The collected wisdom on here is invaluable. Your proposals may be knocked but experiance outweighs all, so be prepared!

 

Where do you want to travel? Do you want to limit yourself to the northern broad canals, or do you wish to cover the whole system?

 

The answer to this will determine the type of craft and the lengh/width. It is worth visiting other sites such as "jim shead"(google it) and view the map which shows the limits of travel for a broadbeam, which are limited. If you wish to cover the entire system, a lengh of 58 ft is the optimum and a beam of 6' 10".

 

The common wisdom is to buy a pre owned craft that fits your criteria and then learn exactly what suits you. Hire as often as you can in the next couple of years( in all seasons) and visit boat shows and other owners to get a real feel for what you want.

 

Go for it though. It is a differant world where on the whole decency and camaradarie still rules, and the pace of life slows. But remember to cast off those rose tinted specs as both the system, life and the great british weather can at times make life shall we say, "difficult"

 

Best advice though is to glean as much as you can from the forum and any other means before you part with your hard earned cash.

 

John Mck.

[Wyke]

Thanks for the advice John. But no worry about me spending money before I know what I am doing. I am a Yorkshireman after all

 

I think that I am pretty much set on a traditional narrowboat as I'd like to be able to go everywhere. The Humber bit was a bit of a dream too far, even I can see that. But I guess that I was hoping that somebody would come up with something like "Oh don't worry about that Dave, you can get clip on out-rigger to turn your narrow boat into something like a South Seas Canoe"

 

As for the rose tinted glasses? Well it doesn't hurt to have then to hand, so to speak, we have to keep the dream alive, but yes, that is one thing that I am already coming to terms with. I'm actually quite surprised that 'the system' seems to be quite anti-liveaboard. This I find quite odd, as I imagine that most people who follow the life are similar to me, long term professional, or ex-professionals who have independent means to support themselves so are not a drain on the system, and who are the last folks who want to see the British waterways spoilt.

 

I've already ordered a couple of books from Amazon, and the next time I have a weekend free am planning to nip over to Nottingham too have a look at some boats, (looking, not buying).

 

This is defiantly the reccy phase, I need to apply myself to sorting the rest of my life out, so come Sept 2013 I am free to go before I start to think about committing to it all.

 

Dave

[bottle]

Hi Wyke, Welcome to the forum.

 

I have picked out just two of your questions, the answers are not gospel but will give you an idea.

 

For a 30-40 foot narrow or wide-beam, how much roughly should i expect it to cost annually to run? I know that this can only be a rough answer, but it is the one thing I am struggling to get a feel for.

 

The same as a house (depends on house size though ) the bills are different but overall it works out about the same, I guestimated about £5,000 this would include licence, insurance, maintenance etc. ps. I continually cruise so have no mooring fees.

 

Next question, is there any mileage in going for new over second hand? As I said, I am looking to settle back down eventually, so in some respects I need to think of resale, eventually.

 

New/second hand, you will get more for your money second hand but may have refit/updating costs (please buy with your head and not your heart), get it surveyed.

 

The anecdote a boat is a hole in the water that you throw money into, is almost correct as for resale it will depend on so many factors, my thought is to forget about getting any money back for the boat.

[deletedaccount]

You'll get much better value for money buying second hand. There's plenty of boats less than five years old on the market. You can get a really nice 58 footer for less than 50k. ABNB always have good boats: http://www.abnb.co.uk/boats_for_sale.html

 

In terms of running costs you've got diesel, licence, coal, pumpouts (if you go for that type of toilet) and gas. Plus new batteries every two years, blacking every two years and things like getting your engine fixed when it falls over. Oh, and insurance and the odd bits and bobs like a tin of paint and some sandpaper.

 

None of it breaks the bank ime.

[WotEver]

You'll get much better value for money buying second hand.

Totally agree.

 

I've seeen many 5 year old boats, some of them REALLY nice, for between 25% and 50% off their new price. I saw one at the weekend for £65k that I would have bought in an instant (well, after a survey) if I'd been in that level of the market. My guess is that when it was new 5 years ago it would have easily been close to £100k.

 

Tony

 

Edit to say they'd even replaced the pump-out with a cassette (but thoughtfully left the dump-through tank and all related connections intact).

Edited July 21, 2010 by WotEver

[Naughty Cal]

I wouldnt give up on the Humber dream just yet. Plenty of narrowboats make the journey from Hull to the Trent/Ouse perfectly safely. What you do need though is a well prepared and maintained boat that has been carefully inspected prior to the off and a crew that are familiar with the waters. You also need to pick your weather window with care. It can get pretty choppy out there and narrowboats are not the best design for choppy waters. Another thing to consider is your insurance. A lot of insurers class the Humber as coastal waters so you may need to get an extension on your normal cover to cruise there.

[ymu]

An older boat is definitely better value. Ours is 1980 (65', £26k). She's lost <1mm in 30 years so I fully expect her to see us well into retirement in another 30 years time. At that sort of age, the value won't depreciate any further if she's looked after well. Unless you have a burning need for a £100k boat, spend as little as possible on your first one IMO. If the hull and the engine are sound, there's nowt much to worry about. Improving the fit-out is relatively cheap - but realising you got it wrong on a new boat means living with it, or ripping out stuff you paid a fortune for.

 

Apart from a sound hull and a fantastic engine, we chose ours because the guy who refitted it had put in good quality flooring and equipment in a very open-plan layout. If we want to change the layout at some point, we won't have to rip out anything expensive (in terms of what it added to the asking price), just move the stuff that's already on-board.

Edited July 22, 2010 by ymu

[Gunna Do]

We are planning the same as you although we now have the boat. Ours is a 50ft Nb with Trad stern. Some may think that this is a bit small but coming from small(ish) yachts, we are well used to living in small spaces. We are selfish about our requirements so it is unashamably a comfortable two berth. If we get a visitor they will have to rough it on the floor on an inflateable bed. We don't believe in carrying extra rooms around just in case!

We were lucky to be able to buy a six year old boat that an elderly couple had had built. Ailing health had put paid to their plans but it suits us very well. In fact over a year later we have yet to see a boat that we would rather have bought so perhaps we have been doubly lucky with our choice.

We too find the Forum (and indeed the Canal magazines) a bit depressing at times but out on the cut this is soon dispelled by the (generally) lovely people that you meet. However when you are needing help or good advice, this forum takes some beating. Just be prepared to read between the 'moans and groans'!