Canal Boat CB radio - short update

[GRPCruiserman]

I put it to my fellow amateurs on our local 'net' and response was positive from all. We have two very active clubs in this area (Preston and Chorley) both of which operate Foundation courses and exams to enable people to obtain their Foundation amateur licence easily. I am not involved with these personally, but if anyone fancies it, or even just a look, PM me and I'll put you in touch with the guys that organise it etc. It's cheap because none of it is done for financial gain.

 

Amateur Radio will give the range and reliable communication ideal for use on the canal, either on 2m or 70cms. (2m is more widely used).

 

Talking of handsets; these can be bought for amateur radio for around £100 all in and will perform much better than the 446Mhz 'walkie talkies', but the 446Mhz units are very good (I have some myself) but the range is very small so you are talking very local.

 

I will get mine charged up and start to monitor channel 8, 0 ctcss when I am around the canals. If everyone does this it would be a start.

[Nickhlx]

I put it to my fellow amateurs on our local 'net' and response was positive from all. We have two very active clubs in this area (Preston and Chorley) both of which operate Foundation courses and exams to enable people to obtain their Foundation amateur licence easily. I am not involved with these personally, but if anyone fancies it, or even just a look, PM me and I'll put you in touch with the guys that organise it etc. It's cheap because none of it is done for financial gain.

 

Amateur Radio will give the range and reliable communication ideal for use on the canal, either on 2m or 70cms. (2m is more widely used).

 

Talking of handsets; these can be bought for amateur radio for around £100 all in and will perform much better than the 446Mhz 'walkie talkies', but the 446Mhz units are very good (I have some myself) but the range is very small so you are talking very local.

 

I will get mine charged up and start to monitor channel 8, 0 ctcss when I am around the canals. If everyone does this it would be a start.

 

 

OK - thanks - I will PM you for the details...

 

I too will be monitoring CH8,0 this year... and announcing my presence regularly - e.g locks / tunnels and "blind corners" - this needs to be done else everyone will be listening only and all will think there's no-one around !! However, we would be heard with updates from the crew around these points...

 

Nick

[Mitch - Soma]

How about a system that would be truly only for the inland boater, based on the old 934MHz band (did it just fizzle out or was it outlawed?).

 

Quite right - outlawed and grabbed for mobile phone. Also the radio's were well expensive on account of that there was no international market, so were only made/sold in small quantities.

 

PMR446 is great, but I did try it on our moorings - gave everyone one for xmas a few years ago. Problem was getting people to keep them charged and on. All just died as an inter-mooring comm's system, but they do dig 'em out when cruising - which I suppose is when they are most useful. Definitely 8-0 for me now at all times.

 

Proper testing of 27 Mhz C.B. has proven somewhat disappointing in central London - we got about 2 miles, with loads of "dead" spots in between. We were running reasonable aerials, probably a bit too long for cruising. Sure, the C.B. outpaced the PMR446 by about 4 to 1, but if you don't mind a bit of "dodgy" stuff, one could always "modify" the PMR and hook up an outside aerial! Haven't tried it yet myself, but I do expect range would be substantially increased.

[NB Willawaw]

Okay. I'm also happy to monitor Ch8 (CTCSS = 0) on PMR446 as well, for the summer cruising season, to see if its of any use.

 

Many boaters have these and its much easier than fitting a CB on a bracket and having to have a mag mount and aerial on the roof, etc.

 

Why don't you organise a PMR446 poll to see how many members will play ?

[Nickhlx]

Re Mitch-Soma's remark about managing to keep the PMR446 sets charged ....

 

Some ( most) recent PMRs are coming out with a rechargeable pack with charger/base included - I just switch them off, put them on charge at bedtime and pick them up in the morning, charged ... Also have charged AAs and AAAs on board anyway for MP3 players, torches etc... They could be put in the 446 sets if you forgot.

 

Nick

Edited March 8, 2010 by Nickhlx

[NB Willawaw]

Nick

 

Your post that quotes me, doesn't appear to have anything to do with what I said

[fuzzyduck]

I'll be monitoring Channel 16..

 

in fact I am now......

 

......

[Nickhlx]

Nick

 

Your post that quotes me, doesn't appear to have anything to do with what I said

 

 

You are right ! I wonder what happened there - I will edit... apologies...

 

Nick

[Mitch - Soma]

Hi Mitch

 

What is your opinion of the maycom

 

Cheers

 

Kev

 

Have just ordered a Maycom hand-held, looks to be the dogs b*****s as a "walkie-talkie" - at 4 watts and 27 meg, should make PMR446 look like the kiddie's toy's that they are!

 

Will come back to you once proper tests have been done.

 

Mitch.

[jelunga]

Absolutely! There is enough to maintain and set up with boats, without fiddly radio systems. PMRs are as simple as a mobile and immediate, so I'll charge mine up and monitor channel 8,0

 

Roger

Roger,

 

In my view, as an ex Royal Signals HF operator, is that the PMR radios lack the range of the CB. Which also lacks the range of a good HF morse signal, but hey ho, cannot live in the past can I ? (Why not .-.-.)

[Nickhlx]

Roger,

 

In my view, as an ex Royal Signals HF operator, is that the PMR radios lack the range of the CB. Which also lacks the range of a good HF morse signal, but hey ho, cannot live in the past can I ? (Why not .-.-.)

 

 

 

I would reckon a PMR446 would go a similar distance to a 27Mhz handheld with its standard aerial, but even those are massive in comparison and comparatively unwieldy - not really "shirt-top-pocketable"... either way each should do a few hundred yards which will be the range the majority would be used at ....

 

Nick

 

(Monitoring Ch8,0)

 

Have just ordered a Maycom hand-held, looks to be the dogs b*****s as a "walkie-talkie" - at 4 watts and 27 meg, should make PMR446 look like the kiddie's toy's that they are!

 

Will come back to you once proper tests have been done.

 

Mitch.

 

 

Mitch,

 

Promise you will do unbiased tests ? You do seem to be somewhat biased towards the 27 Mhz kit, but the aerials are so inefficient at that frequency when coiled up into a helical of manageable length.... compare the 446 sets - wavelength is 67 cms, so 1/4 wave is 16.8 and the aerials from the output device to tip of aerial are around 12 cms - a decent percentage of a 1/4 wave....

( why does this feel like a VHS/Betamax comparison ? :lol: )

 

Nick

[Roger Gunkel]

I would reckon a PMR446 would go a similar distance to a 27Mhz handheld with its standard aerial, but even those are massive in comparison and comparatively unwieldy - not really "shirt-top-pocketable"... either way each should do a few hundred yards which will be the range the majority would be used at ....

 

Nick

 

(Monitoring Ch8,0)

 

 

 

 

Mitch,

 

Promise you will do unbiased tests ? You do seem to be somewhat biased towards the 27 Mhz kit, but the aerials are so inefficient at that frequency when coiled up into a helical of manageable length.... compare the 446 sets - wavelength is 67 cms, so 1/4 wave is 16.8 and the aerials from the output device to tip of aerial are around 12 cms - a decent percentage of a 1/4 wave....

( why does this feel like a VHS/Betamax comparison ? :lol: )

 

Nick

 

It would be interesting also to know what price a pair of the Maycom handhelds are, battery type and life and spare battery pack cost.

 

Roger (Also monitoring Ch8,0)

[Orca]

Had a Midland 38 CB on my boat for a couple of years - have to say have rarely conversed with Boaters on it...just the usual array of moaning, traffic clogged Truckers (me being one of them unfortunately!)

[Roger Gunkel]

I've just done a google and found this Maycom handheld CB

 

If you are a CB radio fanatic I'm sure it's a lovely bit of gear, but for the wife and kids boating? A pair of them will set you back £180 or more by the time you allow for 8 AA rechargeable batteries each as a spare set. The same money will buy you 24 PMR radios from Tescos, or a pair for you and the missus and a weekend in Paris

 

The size alone puts me off, being reminiscent of the earliest mobile phones. They are certainly handheld, as you would never have a pocket big enough to put them in, though even handheld they are pretty cumbersome with that aerial. The fact that they need 8 AA sized batteries each, also suggests that they are pretty power hungry so I would be interested to know talk time and standby time compared to PMR.

 

Having looked at these, I think that for the sort of communication the average boater will want, it is Game Set and Match to PMRs

 

Roger

(Channel 8,0)

[Nickhlx]

Roger...

 

I think the Maycoms are about £80 - £99 each ! ( Ouch) ... just done a bit of research on them and they seem to be one of the better 27 MHz options, but are expensive and "big and bulky" - Previously, the "rubber duck" aerials were around 30cms long - I think they look pretty dated these days, even the new models...

 

They run on 8 AA cells ( not included ) and body size is 58mm(W) x 165mm(H) x 32mm(D) .... which is approx 2.3" x 6.5" x 1.3"

 

Nick

( CH8,0)

 

You beat me to it ! The 446 sets weigh less than the batteries for the 27 Mhz sets ! No contest for me and the range I am sure will be comparable - even if its 3 miles instead of 2 miles nearly all use will be in sight but not in earshot - say up to 200 yards or so - the extra range may be useful if bantering - but I think that would be the exception..

 

http://www.rocketradio.co.uk/midland-pacif...-kit-1502-p.asp

5 Watts on VHF though would give some decent range for those wanting to go the VHF marine route though - that would be in the order of a good 5 miles - possibly 10 miles with a decent aerial and terrain and similar in price from about £70 upwards - aerials are a more manageable size too

Edited March 13, 2010 by Nickhlx

[Orca]

Midland 38's are highly recommended as they are supremely compact and dual frequency, 80 Channel. I have it plumbed in just under the instrument panel, so the mike will stretch to the tiller area if needed (on a large Cruiser Stern, ex-hire boat). I got mine second-hand on Fleabay for £30 with a micro aerial (good for a couple of miles). I also have an old (brick-like proprtion) 1980's Midland hand-held that the Missus will use where needed. Rarely I must say...

Edited March 13, 2010 by Orca

[Keeping Up]

I find it significant that although I have amateur (2M), CB (Midland), PMR (BT), and Marine VHF (Icom) equipment available to me, without ever having given it any deep thought I naturally gravitated towards using PMR at all times because the hand-helds are so cheap and convenient, supplemented by Marine VHF for "official" communications with lockies etc.

[Mitch - Soma]

O.K., o.k. I haven't got it yet, but the size of the Maycom, looking at the pic, appears to be really small compared to the old bricks you used to get as a "hand-held" 27 meg. The aerial is really small, but I did have experience of something called a Hygen 55 a good while back and was surprised at how well the aerial worked in comparison to the "rubber duck" type aerials commonly supplied then. The aerial on the Maycom looks remarkably similar, so am holding thumbs.

 

If you take the battery pack off the Maycom and plug it into 12v, and connect an external aerial, the thing becomes the size of a large microphone, and will still have the range of a fixed 4 watt radio. The Maycom is also both E.C. and U.K. frequencies, or 80 ch.

 

I can let you have a Maycom for £70.00 inclusive of V.A.T. A straight forward TTI TCB550 multi-band radio and reasonably good mag-mount aerial for £70.00 and a full DTMF mic, DTMF decoder installed radio and aerial for £180.00. Yes, I still make a small profit - it's not neccessary to pay the much higher prices qouted by some retailers.

 

P.S. London is starting to go - will have the 9 th full blown DTMF radio installed by next week. For those who know the London area, range tests so far from Scrubs Lane, (close to the Kensal Vistor Moorings) - boat to boat - have worked to Little Venice and the Junction Arms pub in the opposite direction - about 2 to 3 miles either way. The noise floor at Scrubs Lane is around 12 Micro-volts, 24 times above the sensitivity of the average reciever tested - so to hear anything at all here the recieved signal has to be at least 20 times stronger than if there was no noise at all. I don't know if this is perculier only to my location, (5000 cars in stock over the fence, all with alarm systems), or if it is the general noise floor for London - or even the U.K. - further investigation is required!

 

Mitch.

[Nickhlx]

O.K., o.k. I haven't got it yet, but the size of the Maycom, looking at the pic, appears to be really small compared to the old bricks you used to get as a "hand-held" 27 meg. The aerial is really small, but I did have experience of something called a Hygen 55 a good while back and was surprised at how well the aerial worked in comparison to the "rubber duck" type aerials commonly supplied then. The aerial on the Maycom looks remarkably similar, so am holding thumbs.

 

If you take the battery pack off the Maycom and plug it into 12v, and connect an external aerial, the thing becomes the size of a large microphone, and will still have the range of a fixed 4 watt radio. The Maycom is also both E.C. and U.K. frequencies, or 80 ch.

 

I can let you have a Maycom for £70.00 inclusive of V.A.T. A straight forward TTI TCB550 multi-band radio and reasonably good mag-mount aerial for £70.00 and a full DTMF mic, DTMF decoder installed radio and aerial for £180.00. Yes, I still make a small profit - it's not neccessary to pay the much higher prices qouted by some retailers.

 

P.S. London is starting to go - will have the 9 th full blown DTMF radio installed by next week. For those who know the London area, range tests so far from Scrubs Lane, (close to the Kensal Vistor Moorings) - boat to boat - have worked to Little Venice and the Junction Arms pub in the opposite direction - about 2 to 3 miles either way. The noise floor at Scrubs Lane is around 12 Micro-volts, 24 times above the sensitivity of the average reciever tested - so to hear anything at all here the recieved signal has to be at least 20 times stronger than if there was no noise at all. I don't know if this is perculier only to my location, (5000 cars in stock over the fence, all with alarm systems), or if it is the general noise floor for London - or even the U.K. - further investigation is required!

 

Mitch.

 

 

Hi Mitch,

 

I am sure your area will be suffering significantly from general electrical noise - especially PLT (PLA) which is HF based - the worst single idea to have come up in decades - hopefully to be fully banned worldwide soon... The car alarms should be working in the 418 MHz or 432.90 MHz allocations so shouldn't affect 27 MHz or 446 equipment.

 

The Maycom is a good price - However the 8AA cells are likely to be arranged in a block at the bottom of the device and will weigh a bit - more than a complete 446 set - to have it run off the boat supply means tying it to the boat with wires - you may as well have a fixed set if you are having to do that...

 

Nick

[Roger Gunkel]

Mitch,

 

This is only a personal opinion, but you have been putting the case for CB radios as a canal radio system on three seperate threads that you have started. As you are offering radios now and quoting prices in the thread, you are quite clearly dealing in radios and it sounds like a concerted sales effort to me. The case for CBs has been put forward by you in a number of ways, but it seems quite clear to me that apart from a couple of CB enthusiasts, forum members generally that have replied, seem to feel that PMR is more suitable for a general use canal radio systems on every level.

 

I would be quite happy to promote my own business on the forum and offer prices here, as would others I am sure, but I don't think that it is acceptable practice.

 

Roger

Edited March 13, 2010 by Roger Gunkel

[wonderdust]

Agreed!

[Mitch - Soma]

Sorry Roger and everyone else - all the above is true, but I only qouted the prices to show that you don't have to pay over the top. I fully support PMR446 as well. Yes, I am dealing in radio, but this is honestly not a sales pitch for myself - I genuinely would like to see a useful radio system get going for the canals, but as you say, the threads do seem to attract only radio buff's - this is totally not what I intended.

 

I do apologise - certainly no offense intended, so I will now withdraw from posting in the general section on this topic.

 

Radio enthusiasts - please P.M. me or email directly soma.home@i12.com and I will happily continue discussions away from the forums. The same goes for anyone wishing to supply and install radio's, I will gladly provide whole-salers details - you can deal with them directly. I am not doing this as a get rich quick scheme, much more important to me is to get a system actually working for the benefit of all.

 

Thanks for all the input so far,

 

Mitch.

[RupertG]

I guess most people on the canals don't bother with two-way radios because there's not much point. And radio buffs will play with as many different sorts of radio as possible, because that's precisely the point (Guilty).

 

For those of us of a radio bent, the idea of thousands of boaty types nattering away to each other deep into the evening on the ondes cortes is very appealing. But with the innernet and the mobile phone, there's really no need - places like these forums and 3G do the job far better.

 

Come the acopalypse/solar storm/revolution/caliphate and the destruction of all the mobile phone and digital networks, yer actual analogue two-way radio will be the place to be. Until then, it's probably best left in the hands of those who love it.

[mickp]

I guess most people on the canals don't bother with two-way radios because there's not much point. And radio buffs will play with as many different sorts of radio as possible, because that's precisely the point (Guilty).

 

For those of us of a radio bent, the idea of thousands of boaty types nattering away to each other deep into the evening on the ondes cortes is very appealing. But with the innernet and the mobile phone, there's really no need - places like these forums and 3G do the job far better.

 

Come the acopalypse/solar storm/revolution/caliphate and the destruction of all the mobile phone and digital networks, yer actual analogue two-way radio will be the place to be. Until then, it's probably best left in the hands of those who love it.

well said

[RobinR]

how do u setup ur ant for top band on the boat.i struggle at home to get enough wire out ,although i can get my 100pro to tune g5rv with feeder strapped performance prety poor.just wondering what the effects of a steel hull on water has for rf ground ?

 

I use a G-Whip Flexi Mobile Whip with a base extension and top band coil:

 

and whilst on the move:

 

This is the "Bug Catcher" loading coil and mount from an MFJ_1622 Apartment Antenna and a Moonraker Tornado Stinger CB antenna also available from Maplin. This covers 40 to 12 meters and 10 with an ATU.

 

This is the side-on view:

 

I hope this is useful to someone.