Mobile Internet Reception

[Badger]

Hi all, I have searched older threads for answers, but found nothing definitive. I have recently purchasaed a laptop and a Vodafone K3565 dongle for wireless internet. This works great at home, but down on the river it's another story. I do get a signal, and even managed to send an email, but it is incredibly slow. I have been looking around google and other forums for some help. It seems beneath the case of the dongle is a hidden socket for the connection of an external aeriel. Has anybody gone down this route ?.Thera are apparently several magmount hi gain aeriels on the market that are suitable for the job. Again if anyone has a similar Voda gongle and has had success with an aeriel I would love more info. I have seen aeriels for around £50, so it's a fairly expensive experiment if it does not work.Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

Badger

[Harpic]

Hi all, I have searched older threads for answers, but found nothing definitive. I have recently purchasaed a laptop and a Vodafone K3565 dongle for wireless internet. This works great at home, but down on the river it's another story. I do get a signal, and even managed to send an email, but it is incredibly slow. I have been looking around google and other forums for some help. It seems beneath the case of the dongle is a hidden socket for the connection of an external aeriel. Has anybody gone down this route ?.Thera are apparently several magmount hi gain aeriels on the market that are suitable for the job. Again if anyone has a similar Voda gongle and has had success with an aeriel I would love more info. I have seen aeriels for around £50, so it's a fairly expensive experiment if it does not work.Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

Badger

I had the same problems as you, Badger. Reliable at home/near big towns, hopeless in rural areas.

I have now partially solved the problem. Buy a USB extension lead long enough to connect your dongle from its position OUTSIDE the boat, and as high a position as you can conveniently manage.

I find that I can get much improved signal strength in many locations with the dongle either lying flat on the deck (roof?), or attached by velcro strip to a canopy support. My lead is 3m long.

Hope this is of some help!

[Nickhlx]

My post from a similar article recently...

 

Aerials is one of my main interests in amateur radio...

 

People need to be aware that the cable used to connect the aerial to the dongle could be giving as much loss as the claimed gain of the aerial and even MORE ! The typical loss of the small diameter cable at these frequencies, is around 0.5 dB for each metre of length, so a 5 metre cable is losing AT LEAST 2.5 dB and probably nearer 3.5dB including connector losses. So, to "stand still", the aerial NEEDS to be giving a genuine, say 3.5dB, to be worth spending ? £10+ on....

 

However, a remote aerial should give better results, partly from height gain and partly getting it out of the hash around the PC and getting it outside the shell of the boat, so it will almost certainly be worthwhile, assuming the cable is kept as short as possible to minimise that cable loss and connections are good.

 

Cable loss is pretty much directly related to cable diameter, with the bigger diameters being less lossy. The better aerials will have larger cables fitted. If it's possible to replace the tiny cable with something less lossy of the correct impedance ( 50 ohm probably) and also get back into the original comnnector (maybe via an adaptor which will lose about 1/2 dB ) the net gain might be 2 to 5 dB, depending on the cable length you need. The shortest cable length you can get away with will save loss too.

 

If you are starting from scratch ( as I am ) the best compromise will be as follows...

 

1) Site the dongle on the roof of the boat, inside next to a mushroom vent ( use self adhesive velcro pads )

2) Use a HIGH QUALITY 2M or 3M USB lead to connect the PC to the dongle - this is because the dongle needs a fair bit of power and the bigger cables will

hopefully have bigger conductors for the power, minimising drop.

3) With a decent external aerial use the shortest length of quality cable between the aerial and the dongle, probably entering via a mushroom vent.

 

The fact is a "stick aerial" with around 6 dBd gain ( which is 6 dB with respect to a dipole) is about all you will find in practice without spend a huge amount of money. This is a co-linear type of aerial and doesn't need a ground plane like a magnetic mount.

 

Aerials claiming "15dB gain" for e.g £30 will likely be rubbish - note the lack of the second "d" which effectively means "gain compared to what - a piece of damp string ?" so they can't be done for false claims...

 

Mount the white stick about 1/2 to 1 metre above the roof, so it is clear of the roof fittings but not too high to be a problem for bridges ( or make it "hinged" so it can be laid flat) This type of aerial is omni-directional, so you won't need to point it. Thetre is little point going much higher than a metre above the roof.

 

For the best signal, a Yagi aerial will be needed, and it will need to be rotatable to point at the nearest transmitter - this should also be about 50 -100 cms above the roof. Yagis can be "horizontal or vertical" - I do not know what polarisation is transmitted and it may vary anyway - try rotating the aerial axially when pointing at the cell.

 

Bear in mind that the higher the gain, the more susceptible the signal being received will be to boat movement - the wavelength at dongle frequencies is only approx 15cms, so moving it only 7.5 cms will be from a max to a minimum - moving the boat back or forwards less than a foot or two could make a world of difference and is worth trying in worst cases. Being out in the open will be really helpful too ( i.e. fields immediately around you, not hills) Being near a town ( less than a mile) is likely to help as there will probably be a cellsite in town.

 

I am shortly doing this for our boat - it's not pressing for me at the moment as we are at the west end of the K and A, and signals are good to beyond Hungerford, going from the East end....

 

My spec will have most of the above including:

 

1) Dongle on ceiling next to mushroom vent

2) A "white stick aerial" with the shortest, fattest cable I can use ( cable around 6mm to 10mm diameter) on a hinged 1M pole ( laid flat when moving)

3) A directional Yagi aerial for the weakest patches - hopefully around 12dBd gain

4) I have a decent 3M USB cable - it cost £20 !

 

The system does have its limitations, but the above will make the best of it and be immensely better than "a dongle on a desk next to the PC"

 

Hope that helps

 

Nick

[Harpic]

My post from a similar article recently...

 

Aerials is one of my main interests in amateur radio...

 

People need to be aware that the cable used to connect the aerial to the dongle could be giving as much loss as the claimed gain of the aerial and even MORE ! The typical loss of the small diameter cable at these frequencies, is around 0.5 dB for each metre of length, so a 5 metre cable is losing AT LEAST 2.5 dB and probably nearer 3.5dB including connector losses. So, to "stand still", the aerial NEEDS to be giving a genuine, say 3.5dB, to be worth spending ? £10+ on....

 

However, a remote aerial should give better results, partly from height gain and partly getting it out of the hash around the PC and getting it outside the shell of the boat, so it will almost certainly be worthwhile, assuming the cable is kept as short as possible to minimise that cable loss and connections are good.

 

Cable loss is pretty much directly related to cable diameter, with the bigger diameters being less lossy. The better aerials will have larger cables fitted. If it's possible to replace the tiny cable with something less lossy of the correct impedance ( 50 ohm probably) and also get back into the original comnnector (maybe via an adaptor which will lose about 1/2 dB ) the net gain might be 2 to 5 dB, depending on the cable length you need. The shortest cable length you can get away with will save loss too.

 

If you are starting from scratch ( as I am ) the best compromise will be as follows...

 

1) Site the dongle on the roof of the boat, inside next to a mushroom vent ( use self adhesive velcro pads )

2) Use a HIGH QUALITY 2M or 3M USB lead to connect the PC to the dongle - this is because the dongle needs a fair bit of power and the bigger cables will

hopefully have bigger conductors for the power, minimising drop.

3) With a decent external aerial use the shortest length of quality cable between the aerial and the dongle, probably entering via a mushroom vent.

 

The fact is a "stick aerial" with around 6 dBd gain ( which is 6 dB with respect to a dipole) is about all you will find in practice without spend a huge amount of money. This is a co-linear type of aerial and doesn't need a ground plane like a magnetic mount.

 

Aerials claiming "15dB gain" for e.g £30 will likely be rubbish - note the lack of the second "d" which effectively means "gain compared to what - a piece of damp string ?" so they can't be done for false claims...

 

Mount the white stick about 1/2 to 1 metre above the roof, so it is clear of the roof fittings but not too high to be a problem for bridges ( or make it "hinged" so it can be laid flat) This type of aerial is omni-directional, so you won't need to point it. Thetre is little point going much higher than a metre above the roof.

 

For the best signal, a Yagi aerial will be needed, and it will need to be rotatable to point at the nearest transmitter - this should also be about 50 -100 cms above the roof. Yagis can be "horizontal or vertical" - I do not know what polarisation is transmitted and it may vary anyway - try rotating the aerial axially when pointing at the cell.

 

Bear in mind that the higher the gain, the more susceptible the signal being received will be to boat movement - the wavelength at dongle frequencies is only approx 15cms, so moving it only 7.5 cms will be from a max to a minimum - moving the boat back or forwards less than a foot or two could make a world of difference and is worth trying in worst cases. Being out in the open will be really helpful too ( i.e. fields immediately around you, not hills) Being near a town ( less than a mile) is likely to help as there will probably be a cellsite in town.

 

I am shortly doing this for our boat - it's not pressing for me at the moment as we are at the west end of the K and A, and signals are good to beyond Hungerford, going from the East end....

 

My spec will have most of the above including:

 

1) Dongle on ceiling next to mushroom vent

2) A "white stick aerial" with the shortest, fattest cable I can use ( cable around 6mm to 10mm diameter) on a hinged 1M pole ( laid flat when moving)

3) A directional Yagi aerial for the weakest patches - hopefully around 12dBd gain

4) I have a decent 3M USB cable - it cost £20 !

 

The system does have its limitations, but the above will make the best of it and be immensely better than "a dongle on a desk next to the PC"

 

Hope that helps

 

Nick

You seem to have this covered, Nickhlx! I confess to know very little about this subject- how do you persuade the dongle to grab the signal that the external aerial is getting? How is the connection made between the cable from the external aerial and the dongle? I ask because my (Three) dongle only has its USB socket with which to connect to the laptop.

[Nickhlx]

You seem to have this covered, Nickhlx! I confess to know very little about this subject- how do you persuade the dongle to grab the signal that the external aerial is getting? How is the connection made between the cable from the external aerial and the dongle? I ask because my (Three) dongle only has its USB socket with which to connect to the laptop.

 

 

Depends on the dongle - they either have an aerial socket - much better - ( usually hidden under a plastic cover) or by coupling to the internal aerial through the case (not as good)

 

What is the model number of the dongle ?

 

Nick

[NBDensie]

Hi all, I have searched older threads for answers, but found nothing definitive. I have recently purchasaed a laptop and a Vodafone K3565 dongle for wireless internet. This works great at home, but down on the river it's another story. I do get a signal, and even managed to send an email, but it is incredibly slow. I have been looking around google and other forums for some help. It seems beneath the case of the dongle is a hidden socket for the connection of an external aeriel. Has anybody gone down this route ?.Thera are apparently several magmount hi gain aeriels on the market that are suitable for the job. Again if anyone has a similar Voda gongle and has had success with an aeriel I would love more info. I have seen aeriels for around £50, so it's a fairly expensive experiment if it does not work.Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

Badger

 

 

I get reasonable results using a TMobile dongle on the end of a 1m USB cable. The dongle can be hooked over the curtain rail. Note that as USB is digital you wont get the sort of problems mentioned above with a long aerial cable.

 

My experience from many places all over the system is that the connectivity for wireless broadband is rather better than that for the standard Orange mobile phone network. It is patchy though - I have been in the wilds of nowhere and got a fast connection and in the middle of Nottingham with nothing.

[Water Woman]

I get reasonable results using a TMobile dongle on the end of a 1m USB cable. The dongle can be hooked over the curtain rail. Note that as USB is digital you wont get the sort of problems mentioned above with a long aerial cable.

 

My experience from many places all over the system is that the connectivity for wireless broadband is rather better than that for the standard Orange mobile phone network. It is patchy though - I have been in the wilds of nowhere and got a fast connection and in the middle of Nottingham with nothing.

 

 

That is exactly what I do, the dongle haging over the top of the curtain towards the window. It is a bit slow sometimes but I have got used to it and am happy with T Mobile.

[Badger]

My post from a similar article recently...

 

Aerials is one of my main interests in amateur radio...

 

People need to be aware that the cable used to connect the aerial to the dongle could be giving as much loss as the claimed gain of the aerial and even MORE ! The typical loss of the small diameter cable at these frequencies, is around 0.5 dB for each metre of length, so a 5 metre cable is losing AT LEAST 2.5 dB and probably nearer 3.5dB including connector losses. So, to "stand still", the aerial NEEDS to be giving a genuine, say 3.5dB, to be worth spending ? £10+ on....

 

However, a remote aerial should give better results, partly from height gain and partly getting it out of the hash around the PC and getting it outside the shell of the boat, so it will almost certainly be worthwhile, assuming the cable is kept as short as possible to minimise that cable loss and connections are good.

 

Cable loss is pretty much directly related to cable diameter, with the bigger diameters being less lossy. The better aerials will have larger cables fitted. If it's possible to replace the tiny cable with something less lossy of the correct impedance ( 50 ohm probably) and also get back into the original comnnector (maybe via an adaptor which will lose about 1/2 dB ) the net gain might be 2 to 5 dB, depending on the cable length you need. The shortest cable length you can get away with will save loss too.

 

If you are starting from scratch ( as I am ) the best compromise will be as follows...

 

1) Site the dongle on the roof of the boat, inside next to a mushroom vent ( use self adhesive velcro pads )

2) Use a HIGH QUALITY 2M or 3M USB lead to connect the PC to the dongle - this is because the dongle needs a fair bit of power and the bigger cables will

hopefully have bigger conductors for the power, minimising drop.

3) With a decent external aerial use the shortest length of quality cable between the aerial and the dongle, probably entering via a mushroom vent.

 

The fact is a "stick aerial" with around 6 dBd gain ( which is 6 dB with respect to a dipole) is about all you will find in practice without spend a huge amount of money. This is a co-linear type of aerial and doesn't need a ground plane like a magnetic mount.

 

Aerials claiming "15dB gain" for e.g £30 will likely be rubbish - note the lack of the second "d" which effectively means "gain compared to what - a piece of damp string ?" so they can't be done for false claims...

 

Mount the white stick about 1/2 to 1 metre above the roof, so it is clear of the roof fittings but not too high to be a problem for bridges ( or make it "hinged" so it can be laid flat) This type of aerial is omni-directional, so you won't need to point it. Thetre is little point going much higher than a metre above the roof.

 

For the best signal, a Yagi aerial will be needed, and it will need to be rotatable to point at the nearest transmitter - this should also be about 50 -100 cms above the roof. Yagis can be "horizontal or vertical" - I do not know what polarisation is transmitted and it may vary anyway - try rotating the aerial axially when pointing at the cell.

 

Bear in mind that the higher the gain, the more susceptible the signal being received will be to boat movement - the wavelength at dongle frequencies is only approx 15cms, so moving it only 7.5 cms will be from a max to a minimum - moving the boat back or forwards less than a foot or two could make a world of difference and is worth trying in worst cases. Being out in the open will be really helpful too ( i.e. fields immediately around you, not hills) Being near a town ( less than a mile) is likely to help as there will probably be a cellsite in town.

 

I am shortly doing this for our boat - it's not pressing for me at the moment as we are at the west end of the K and A, and signals are good to beyond Hungerford, going from the East end....

 

My spec will have most of the above including:

 

1) Dongle on ceiling next to mushroom vent

2) A "white stick aerial" with the shortest, fattest cable I can use ( cable around 6mm to 10mm diameter) on a hinged 1M pole ( laid flat when moving)

3) A directional Yagi aerial for the weakest patches - hopefully around 12dBd gain

4) I have a decent 3M USB cable - it cost £20 !

 

The system does have its limitations, but the above will make the best of it and be immensely better than "a dongle on a desk next to the PC"

 

Hope that helps

 

Nick

Thankyou for your comprehensive reply. I was looking at a magmount with the lead straight in the window, to my modified K3565 dongle. Being just weekenders at the moment I want something that is easily set up, and taken down again. What are your views on Panorama aeriels-could they do the job ?.

I am getting a signal, so i guess I am trying to boost that to make the system faster ?.

[Teakbank12]

Passed a boat moored at Braunston the weekend & it had the dongle inside an empty water bottle, what a great idea!!

[Nickhlx]

Thankyou for your comprehensive reply. I was looking at a magmount with the lead straight in the window, to my modified K3565 dongle. Being just weekenders at the moment I want something that is easily set up, and taken down again. What are your views on Panorama aeriels-could they do the job ?.

I am getting a signal, so i guess I am trying to boost that to make the system faster ?.

 

 

Panorama make excellent aerials - I used to supply their aerials for Cellular and Land Mobile applications and they are high quality products. As important as the aerial though, is the feeder bringing the signal from the aerial to the dongle or TV or whatever - You don't want to spend maybe £50 on an aerial to achieve a gain of maybe 6 dBd and then lose 3dB of it with either long or cheap coax or connectors - so keep RF cables as short as practical and if you are making cables up, buy the best you can - it will be a tiny cost in comparison with the rest of the equipment, and never more than a few pounds anyway in this application. For co-ax for TV look for braiding that gives 100% screen or even double screened co-ax - generally the bigger the diameter co-ax, the lower loss it will be.

 

To help avoid degradation of signal, also check that there is the minimum amount of interference - interference degrades the signal and slows down the connection - in land-based homes, the new kid on the block for zapping internet is this dreaded PLT - the devices that plug into the mains at each end and use the mains to carry the signal. They are not EU approved, despite the label saying they are, and BT actually approve them ! They slow down the internet not just for you but for up to 1/2 a mile around you, so maybe your neighbours are slowing your home connection down, albeit unwittingly. I digress - the point is that interference will slow down the internet signal which is another reason to use good co-ax - on the boat it can come from the microwave or quite "normal" devices like TVs and radios.

 

Nick

Edited February 9, 2010 by Nickhlx

[Harpic]

Depends on the dongle - they either have an aerial socket - much better - ( usually hidden under a plastic cover) or by coupling to the internal aerial through the case (not as good)

 

What is the model number of the dongle ?

 

Nick

E122. I have examined this closely, and find that, hidden beneath a tiny flap in its side, there is a tiny socket alongside a micro SD card slot. I assume (assume makes an ass out of you and me) that the external aerial can plug into this- where can I get a plug? If it's so small, is there difficulty in soldering the tiny plug onto what would be a comparatively huge coax cable?

And as for the card slot.......

I must add that we seem to be poorly served by Three- even the pamphlet that came with it talks about it being a mobile phone!

Derek

[Harpic]

E122. I have examined this closely, and find that, hidden beneath a tiny flap in its side, there is a tiny socket alongside a micro SD card slot. I assume (assume makes an ass out of you and me) that the external aerial can plug into this- where can I get a plug? If it's so small, is there difficulty in soldering the tiny plug onto what would be a comparatively huge coax cable?

And as for the card slot.......

I must add that we seem to be poorly served by Three- even the pamphlet that came with it talks about it being a mobile phone!

Derek

Nick,

Your remarks about Panorama aerials have borne fruit- I swept their website, and discovered a page relating to my 3 dongle. There it was, E122, together with a lot of examples of the aerials that suit it. My problems are solved- thanks to you, Nick. Well done, and keep up the good work

Derek

[Nickhlx]

Nick,

Your remarks about Panorama aerials have borne fruit- I swept their website, and discovered a page relating to my 3 dongle. There it was, E122, together with a lot of examples of the aerials that suit it. My problems are solved- thanks to you, Nick. Well done, and keep up the good work

Derek

 

 

Yes - I have the same type of modem with the aerial socket under the small flap - I think its called a CRC or something like it...

 

Glad it helped...

 

Nick

 

Yes - I have the same type of modem with the aerial socket under the small flap - I think its called a CRC or something like it...

 

Glad it helped...

 

Nick

 

 

Re the waterproofing ( from rain) of a dongle when outside.... I have in the past, taped the dongle to a 500ml coke bottle and put it inside a 1.5 litre bottle ( with the bottom cut off) for rain protection. This can, in turn, be taped to a piece of wood as a small mast and fastened to something to keep it vertical, somewhere near a mushroom vent, through which you can pass the USB cable to the laptop below. This is a quick and cheap way of getting a better signal.

 

Even better though would be the Panorama aerial, but keep the co-ax short !

 

Nick

Edited February 9, 2010 by Nickhlx

[Laurence Hogg]

We have a antenna from the Panorama range on "Barnet". Its the type used on police cars (has a lump in the middle of the mast) and has a very good pick up range. Its not listed now as its an older one I got off ebay but the modern newer ones are listed here: http://www.panorama-antennas.com/uk/home.html

 

Rather oddly it also gives good TV and radio reception!

[Nickhlx]

We have a antenna from the Panorama range on "Barnet". Its the type used on police cars (has a lump in the middle of the mast) and has a very good pick up range. Its not listed now as its an older one I got off ebay but the modern newer ones are listed here: http://www.panorama-antennas.com/uk/home.html

 

Rather oddly it also gives good TV and radio reception!

 

 

It will probably be a co-linear for the UHF band - high gain - approx 5 dBd - the lump in the middle is a phasing coil to join the two lengths either side of it in the correct phase to produce "gain". They are still available for many different frequencies. In the Amateur market, there are aerials that look like this for 2, 3 or even 4 bands ( groups of frequencies) and one of these are nearly always close to e.g TV, Radio inc DAB or PMR bands used by the various sectors of the community...

 

Nick

[Badger]

Panorama make excellent aerials - I used to supply their aerials for Cellular and Land Mobile applications and they are high quality products. As important as the aerial though, is the feeder bringing the signal from the aerial to the dongle or TV or whatever - You don't want to spend maybe £50 on an aerial to achieve a gain of maybe 6 dBd and then lose 3dB of it with either long or cheap coax or connectors - so keep RF cables as short as practical and if you are making cables up, buy the best you can - it will be a tiny cost in comparison with the rest of the equipment, and never more than a few pounds anyway in this application. For co-ax for TV look for braiding that gives 100% screen or even double screened co-ax - generally the bigger the diameter co-ax, the lower loss it will be.

 

To help avoid degradation of signal, also check that there is the minimum amount of interference - interference degrades the signal and slows down the connection - in land-based homes, the new kid on the block for zapping internet is this dreaded PLT - the devices that plug into the mains at each end and use the mains to carry the signal. They are not EU approved, despite the label saying they are, and BT actually approve them ! They slow down the internet not just for you but for up to 1/2 a mile around you, so maybe your neighbours are slowing your home connection down, albeit unwittingly. I digress - the point is that interference will slow down the internet signal which is another reason to use good co-ax - on the boat it can come from the microwave or quite "normal" devices like TVs and radios.

 

Nick

Hi Nick, I think after studying various comments from people more qualified than I......I am going to buy the Panorama 5db gain magmount. Do you think I should plug the dongle direct to the laptop ?. Or use another lead (and of course more connections) to get the dongle outside the boat?.

 

Badger

[Nickhlx]

Hi Nick, I think after studying various comments from people more qualified than I......I am going to buy the Panorama 5db gain magmount. Do you think I should plug the dongle direct to the laptop ?. Or use another lead (and of course more connections) to get the dongle outside the boat?.

 

Badger

 

 

There's no point in getting the dongle outside the boat if you have an aerial plugged into it, as its the aerial doing the signal collecting / radiating. Generally the dongle plugged into the PC would be best as it reduces cable drop and connections, but only if it is not risking being knocked as that could cost a lot of hassle / money if it damaged the PC's board - some come with a short 6" USB male-female lead to stress-relieve the connector and using this is always a good idea.

 

Nick

Edited February 13, 2010 by Nickhlx

[Ray]

Just found this website.

 

I shall be getting the screwdrivers out soon and buying a magmount antenna in an attempt to boost reception.

[Badger]

There's no point in getting the dongle outside the boat if you have an aerial plugged into it, as its the aerial doing the signal collecting / radiating. Generally the dongle plugged into the PC would be best as it reduces cable drop and connections, but only if it is not risking being knocked as that could cost a lot of hassle / money if it damaged the PC's board - some come with a short 6" USB male-female lead to stress-relieve the connector and using this is always a good idea.

 

Nick

I like the sound of the 6" lead. Just to be sure, I would plug this into the lappy,and then my dongle into that. This would then eliminate the risk of the plug being damaged if the dongle and connection were accidentaly knocked ?. Are these short leads readily available ?.

 

Badger

[Nickhlx]

I like the sound of the 6" lead. Just to be sure, I would plug this into the lappy,and then my dongle into that. This would then eliminate the risk of the plug being damaged if the dongle and connection were accidentaly knocked ?. Are these short leads readily available ?.

 

Badger

 

 

Yes - I think so - I thought some USB devices were supplied with them just to provide a flexible link between the dongle and the laptop - if not a slightly longer one ( say half or even 1 metre cable ) is OK - its there to not let a knock damage the laptop or dongle, either of which could be very expensive to fix.

 

Nick

[ditchcrawler]

Passed a boat moored at Braunston the weekend & it had the dongle inside an empty water bottle, what a great idea!!

Narrowboat Skyy?

I use a plastic milk bottle on a piece of broom stick, the USB cable is threaded round inside the handle of the bottle and the dongle stands on the end of the cable. The whole lot then sits upside down on the short bit of broom handle.

Edit for spilling

Edited February 17, 2010 by ditchcrawler