Disability Discrimination Act

[Hairy-Neil]

We are a formal corporate body with a duty of care to 'employees' and any members of the public who board the boats. The Health and Safety Act applies to us as does the Disability Discrimination Act and a host of other rules and regulations that private owners can ignore. In addition, potential volunteers generally expect to be able to to wash and use a WC in relative comfort, neither of which is easy on a fully trad pair, particularly when strangers of both sexes are involved and personal privacy is required. The national service generation may be prepared to put up with barrack room conditions but sleeping on the floor of the motor cabin with a complete stranger on the bed is not attractive to everyone. We know of a number of potential active members who are put off by the spartan conditions - I do not believe we can survive long term without some modification to the boats to facilitate compliance with the law and better facilities whilst retaining the overal look and feel. If there are some who think that is heresy I'd be pleased to read suggestions for practical alternatives.

 

TW

 

1995 Act Clicky

 

2005 Act Clicky

 

I've finally waded through the above acts. Yes I've seen the bit that clubs and societies cannot bar or obstruct applications from disabled persons, so will apply to the trust in that respect, however, as yet I am unable to see how it can affect the historic boats themselves.

 

Anyone?

[Chertsey]

Certainly Tarporley is not wheelchair accessible, for example, and we have had to turn away some potential hirers as a result. As far as I am aware it has never been suggested that we are in breach of the law in this respect.

[magpie patrick]

1995 Act Clicky

 

2005 Act Clicky

 

I've finally waded through the above acts. Yes I've seen the bit that clubs and societies cannot bar or obstruct applications from disabled persons, so will apply to the trust in that respect, however, as yet I am unable to see how it can affect the historic boats themselves.

 

Anyone?

 

It is legal to discriminate where the only way to avoid discrimination is not to offer the service at all, service in your case being getting on the boat. That clause was put in for all things historic.

[Derek R.]

It is legal to discriminate where the only way to avoid discrimination is not to offer the service at all, service in your case being getting on the boat. That clause was put in for all things historic.

 

That figures. On occasion I drive buses manufactured in the 1950's, there is no available access for a wheelchair, though all are welcome if they can get on board - with help if necessary. These are on occassions when a full days public service is given covering historic routes - 'Running Days' - and whilst no fares are collected, and no charge is made for travel. They are well attended, and while some disabled are unable to board, their pleasure is in seeing and hearing the vehicles they once travelled on regularly. I would have thought (and thoughts bear no relation to any legal entitlement) that if a vessel was being used to convey the public for a 'reward', the some kind of disability access was needed, however, the 'Historic' element - as Patrick mentioned - may well be there to bring a little common sense into a world of bureaucracy gone mad.

 

Derek

[Tim Lewis]

1995 Act Clicky

 

2005 Act Clicky

 

I've finally waded through the above acts. Yes I've seen the bit that clubs and societies cannot bar or obstruct applications from disabled persons, so will apply to the trust in that respect, however, as yet I am unable to see how it can affect the historic boats themselves.

 

Anyone?

 

Am not a legal expert but I believe the DDA law says that you must make reasonable attempts to comply. At the London Canal Museum we recognised that we would not be able to give wheelchair access to the back cabin of Coronis so we set up a computer station adjacent to the boat where wheelchair users could experience a virtual tour of it.

 

Tim

[Hairy-Neil]

It is legal to discriminate where the only way to avoid discrimination is not to offer the service at all, service in your case being getting on the boat. That clause was put in for all things historic.

 

I believe it extends beyond things historic. I drive a recovery lorry and there is no legal requirement for my gaffer to provide a wheelchair accessible vehicle for this purpose. Beyond holding a door open for them I have been instructed that I am not permitted to either help a disabled person out of their vehicle nor into my cab. They must do it alone, or with assistance from their travelling companions (or with agreement, remain in their vehicle when it is winched onto the lorry).

[Derek R.]

I believe it extends beyond things historic. I drive a recovery lorry and there is no legal requirement for my gaffer to provide a wheelchair accessible vehicle for this purpose. Beyond holding a door open for them I have been instructed that I am not permitted to either help a disabled person out of their vehicle nor into my cab. They must do it alone, or with assistance from their travelling companions (or with agreement, remain in their vehicle when it is winched onto the lorry).

 

Some 'laws' go beyond the pail. In the end, if a person is disabled to the point of not being able to help themselves without assistance, and it is beyond any practical and physical means for them to board a vehicle that to all intents and purposes is neither practical or economically viable to provide disabled access through historic means or otherwise, then the disabled person is at a disadvantage which whilst the person themselves may well appreciate and accept, the 'law' and its creators in all their fine highness have failed to do.

 

I'm thinking of starting a wheelchair access campaign for Everest (Some - in all seriousness - would!) - if you can run a railway up Snowdon . . .

 

No fun being disabled - my back is out right now - grumpy is an understatement!

 

Derek

[magpie patrick]

I believe it extends beyond things historic. I drive a recovery lorry and there is no legal requirement for my gaffer to provide a wheelchair accessible vehicle for this purpose. Beyond holding a door open for them I have been instructed that I am not permitted to either help a disabled person out of their vehicle nor into my cab. They must do it alone, or with assistance from their travelling companions (or with agreement, remain in their vehicle when it is winched onto the lorry).

 

It does cover other things as well, your recovery truck being an obvious candidate, but the exemption I was quoting is mainly used for historic structures. There are other clauses as well, relating to reasonableness (which tends to come down to cost) and not wrecking historic buildings. If a disabled passenger can remain in their vehicle when you collect then that is compliance, your service is available to them. There is nothing in the act to say that access to the service must be identical for disabled and non-disabled.

 

On boats, the costs of making canal boats DDA compliant, even of the boat is modern, makes it unreasonable to require access. It's not just getting on and off, but toilet facilities, the width of the aisle taking seats out (which undermines profitability). However a bigger boat might well need to be adapted if there was a challenge.

 

As far as crewing boats is concerned, the DDA only applies to the Narrow Boat Trust in as far as their vessels are capable of complying, which is very limited. They certainly will not have to provide access onto the boats and thus they don't need disabled facilities on board either.

 

 

Some 'laws' go beyond the pail. In the end, if a person is disabled to the point of not being able to help themselves without assistance, and it is beyond any practical and physical means for them to board a vehicle that to all intents and purposes is neither practical or economically viable to provide disabled access through historic means or otherwise, then the disabled person is at a disadvantage which whilst the person themselves may well appreciate and accept, the 'law' and its creators in all their fine highness have failed to do.

 

I'm thinking of starting a wheelchair access campaign for Everest (Some - in all seriousness - would!) - if you can run a railway up Snowdon . . .

 

No fun being disabled - my back is out right now - grumpy is an understatement!

 

Derek

 

That's my point, the law does recognise limits, but it also forces an effort to be made. You only have to look at how bus access has improved over the last twenty years to see that. When I worked at Gretaer Manchester PTE in the 1980's, we wondered what planet "the disabled lobby" were on, demanding that someone in a wheelchair could get on an ordinary bus. It is now standsrd to be able to do so.