WASTE WATER

[inaminute]

ive been reading recently about a new E.E.C directive that all boats by 2009 are to have seperate brown water tanks for shower/sink waste water.

what do you think of this and does it mean all boats or just new boats ,as sureley this is going to make owning a boat very expensive indeed.

i know pumping out waste water is perhaps harmfull to the enviorement,,but i understood the canals are cleaner now than ever and in france they even dump there toilet waste into the canals as well.any comments please.

[Breals]

Sounds like yet more hassle - I hope it only applies to new boats! It's a reasonable thing to ask though IMO - I was doing the washing up the other day, and witnessed bubbles spreading across the canal; doesn't really look good does it!

Edited October 4, 2005 by Breals

[ChrisPy]

.......seperate brown water tanks for shower/sink waste water.

33590[/snapback]

surely that should be grey water ?

 

and I hope it is not retrospective. that would be damn nigh impossible for most boats.

[howardang]

surely that should be grey water ?

 

and I hope it is not retrospective.  that would be damn nigh impossible for most boats.

33604[/snapback]

 

And it would add significantly to the cost of new boats. The extra tankage required would need to be well divided to avoid too much free surface effect which would otherwise cause stability issues.

Not to mention the need to provide grey water pump out facil;ities throughout the canal system.

 

Howard Anguish

[Gary Peacock]

There is a very good chance this will come about, where Europe goes we now ensnared to follow.

The legislation would effect new builds initially but could well become mandatory for all craft in time.

I suppose from an ecological point of view that it might not be a bad thing.

[dor]

And just think how much grey water you generate compared to the toilet waste. Looks like we will have to give up showering!

[Big COL]

There is a very good chance this will come about, where Europe goes we now ensnared  to follow.

The legislation would effect new builds initially but could well become mandatory for all craft in time.

I suppose from an ecological point of view that it might not be a bad thing.

33616[/snapback]

 

 

Gary

 

From an ecological point of view, It may take the grey water out of the canal and into the hedgerow. Live-aboards and holiday cruisers will need a pump out every two or three days, can you see them all going to a pump out point.This year on the local river toilet pump-outs were very few and far between, I asked a local how they coped he replied we only use cassettes on the river and we all carry spades on board. Enough said.

[ChrisPy]

disposal will be next to impossible for boats that tend to be static and are not marina-based. a commercial opportunity for mobile pump-out barges.

 

luckily I will have space for a tank under the double bed about 1500litres, but it will create new ballasting problems. would be much worse if it was not a widebeam.

[Richard Bustens]

I put a tank in when the build was done but i only put it in for ballance and it pumps out overboard .

[steveh]

So we are going to store and pump out grey water to where?

 

If the grey is pump into surface water drainage system where does it end up? MMmm in the canals and rivers.

 

If the grey water is pumped into foul drainage then water processing (local water rates) will go up as filter and processing foul drainage takes longer and more costly.

 

Another great idea!

[John Orentas]

If there was even the slightest evidence that there is a pollution problem caused by boats I would support legislation in this area. The fact is that the canal system can easily cope with the waste water discharges at the present level.

 

I can imagine that BW may well get enthusiastic about it if like so many of these things they are in line for extra funding to implement such a scheme, they will be thinking that they could also generate even more revenue from the boaters.

 

I think those that may be tempted to use the argument about the inconvenience to permanently moored boaters that can't or don't want to be bothered to move occasionally should keep their heads down, the canal system is not here for that kind of use.

 

In fact if the media were to get hold of the above story of boaters carrying a shovel (or perhaps some don't) I think they would be off the canals within the year and I for one would not shed any tears.

[AJLintern]

Why not put the grey water into a seperate tank for use as flushing water in the toilet? You could then maybe reduce the size of the water tank to make room for it. Or is it normal pratice to use canal water for flushing?

[Big COL]

If there was even the slightest evidence that there is a pollution problem caused by boats I would support legislation in this area.  The fact is that the canal system can easily cope with the waste water discharges at the present level.

 

I can imagine that BW may well get enthusiastic about it if like so many of these things they are in line for extra funding to implement such a scheme, they will be thinking that they could also generate even more revenue from the boaters.

 

I think those that may be tempted to use the argument about the inconvenience to permanently moored boaters that can't or don't want to be bothered to move occasionally should keep their heads down, the canal system is not here for that kind of use.

 

In fact if the media were to get hold of the above story of boaters carrying a shovel (or perhaps some don't) I think they would be off the canals within the year and I for one would not shed any tears.

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John

 

This was on the river and it seems that this is common practise even for weekend boaters, up until this it had never occurred to me that such a practise was taking place, (just shows how naive I am) if this happens on the rivers, then it must also be happening on the canals as well.

[steveh]

Why not put the grey water into a seperate tank for use as flushing water in the toilet? You could then maybe reduce the size of the water tank to make room for it. Or is it normal pratice to use canal water for flushing? 

33635[/snapback]

 

 

Yes I cannot see a reason why it is not possible but you would have to filter out any debris first, peas, potatoes peelings etc anything that could cause a blockage. I don't know if dish water would cause a problem though could the water foam up if pumped?

 

You would need a separate tank to store the filtered grey water. Obviously then you would need a larger foul storage tank.

 

When I have worked on large commercial buildings using grey water to flush toilets they have added a dye and perfume to the water so you can tell which is fresh and which is grey water just in case someone fit outs and changes pipework connections.

[David Schweizer]

What will the Eurocrats think of next? Toilets for cattle and sheep, drainage channels along the bankside to stop agricultural chemicals draining from the land and into the canal. Some people need to get a life.

[dor]

I was approaching a moored boat last weekend, a rather tatty-looking affair - you know the type.

 

A character appeared at the stern and tipped a bucket of "water" into the canal.

 

Now it may have been his washing-up water, or perhaps he had been rinsing out his smalls, but from the colour I suspect something else.

 

However is it really a problem? When you consider the dilution factor it really becomes insignificant compared to what nature can do to the water.

 

I'm told the Nile Perch grow so big because of all the sewage they consume, and they help to clean up the river.

[Alastair]

I don't think it would be a problem on a river, particularly tidal sections (like the Thames in London).

 

But a canal is titchy by comparison.

The Yorkshire Ouse upstream of York is about 100ftx12ft deep approx 1200sqr ft cross-section.

A canal is more like 14widex3ft deep approx 42sqr ft cross-section

[fender.]

I do not see a problem with grey/brown water unless it has severe concetrates of sulphates and other chemicals (washing machines for example) its time the EC bureaucrats got a life at the rate they're going we'll all soonbe nothing more than pathetic brains in vats.

[steveh]

I do not see a problem with grey/brown water unless it has severe concetrates of sulphates and other chemicals (washing machines for example) its time the EC bureaucrats got a life at the rate they're going we'll all soonbe nothing more than pathetic brains in vats.

33696[/snapback]

 

 

Now heres a question for everyone how are they going to know if people are emtpying any kind of water into the system. They're not.

[Alastair]

Now heres a question for everyone how are they going to know if people are emtpying any kind of water into the system. They're not.

33697[/snapback]

 

Because:

A) the patrol officer will see it coming out of the side of your boat

you'll have to have the right plumbing/tank to get your BSS

 

This legislation has profound implications for liveaboards. In other EU countries (such as france), they will happily accept the legislation - then ignore it. Tales of visiting boats to French marinas are enlightening - no pumpout facilities, and the visitors get fined as soon as they are seen emptying a sink - yet the locals merrily discharge loos etc without anyone batting an eyelid.

 

We will have a hard time in the uk, 'cause we are a nation of law-abiders.

[steveh]

Because:

A) the patrol officer will see it coming out of the side of your boat

you'll have to have the right plumbing/tank to get your BSS

33701[/snapback]

 

Having a tank doesn't mean you have to use it, pay £15 a time for a pump out or empty the bowl when no one's looking?

 

How long would it take to install a pump from a grey water tank to a hose and disharge over the side at midnight?

 

More crap literally!

[fender.]

or dump over the side in the middle of a tunnel (I've caught one boat doing that - discharging their holding tank though I suspect they'd hoped I'd not be noticing anything)

 

(I suspect the new legislation will lead to more fly by night things going on...)

Edited October 5, 2005 by fender.

[Breals]

Yep, some one confided in me he knew someone who regularly chucks his poo in the cut. There'll always be a few who flout laws but the majority of us obey because we know the rules are there for a reason.

 

The best suggestion so far is for using the shower and sink water for the PO toilet. The water could be filtered of solid debris at source. I hope BW are planning ahead for providing drain gulleys/sustainable drainage systems for us to pump out our remaining grey water. There shouldn't be a charge, as there isn't a charge for elsan disposal and this waste would be far more innocuous. I do think that these proposed rules make sense regards dishwashers and automatic washing machines on boats, they are environmental unfriendly and seem a bit of an extravagance to me.

Edited October 5, 2005 by Breals

[fender.]

Yep, some one confided in me he knew someone who regularly chucks his poo in the cut. There'll always be a few who flout laws but the majority of us obey because we know the rules are there for a reason.

 

The best suggestion so far is for using the shower and sink water for the PO toilet. The water could be filtered of solid debris at source. I hope BW are planning ahead for providing drain gulleys/sustainable drainage systems for us to pump out our remaining grey water. There shouldn't be a charge, as there isn't a charge for elsan disposal and this waste would be far more innocuous. I do think that these proposed rules make sense regards dishwashers and automatic washing machines on boats, they are environmental unfriendly and seem a bit of an extravagance to me.

33718[/snapback]

 

Agreed the more luxuries we use the more likely we are to suffer restrictions. I just use the basics and it riles me when I see boats pumping out no end of suds into the canal.

[nautilus]

The real problem in regard to grey water, is what does the pump out station do with it? many of these use septic tanks, these have calculated volumes. Too much 'water' degrades the efficiency of the system and the tank fills faster, and therefore requires more frequent emptying.

 

It would therefore seem that a major infrastructure program would be required to deal with this. Also septic tanks use a enzyme / biological treatment system, these are affected by detergents and other chemicals that could be contained in grey water. This potentially could cause the treatment cycle to stop (in biological terms, as required bacteria and enzymes were killed by grey water chemicals). This could take upto 8 weeks to re-start.

 

A previous poster points out all water waste is ultimately discharged into rivers and other courses, we are currently cutting out the middle man.