Liverpool Dock Link gets Funding

[CanalWalker]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england...ide/4258328.stm

 

Missing waterway link is rebuilt

 

The waterway was removed when the Liver Building was erected

A stretch of the Leeds-Liverpool Canal on the Mersey waterfront is to be rebuilt with a £7m government grant.

The waterway between Stanley Docks and the South Docks was lost when the Royal Liver Building was built on the Georges Dock in the early 20th century.

 

The project received an Objective One European cash grant and will create nearly 200 new jobs.

 

Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott said the restoration plan was "great news" for the people of Liverpool.

 

Boating bonus

 

"Over the last decade we have seen a renaissance for our waterways, with increased investment and regeneration work, led by British Waterways, bringing waterway life and a great leisure facility back to the people," he said.

 

"The Leeds & Liverpool Canal was once the backbone of the northern economy. It is fitting that 100 years on the canal link is being restored as our northern cities rebuild their links and work together as part of our Northern Way initiative.

 

"The restoration is great news for boaters and for everyone in Liverpool looking forward to the Capital of Culture celebrations in 2008."

 

When the link is complete boaters will be able to cruise over the Pennines from Leeds to Liverpool and into the city's world-famous South Docks.

 

The rest of the £17m funding needed has come from the North West Development Agency, British Waterways, and English Partnerships.

[John Orentas]

Quote;

 

"The waterway between Stanley Docks and the South Docks was lost when the Royal Liver Building was built on the Georges Dock in the early 20th century".

 

Are we sure about that, looks like some hack journalist has got that wrong. As I understand it the new canal will connect to the Leeds Liverpool in or close to Stanley Dock and link to Albert Dock. As far as I know the L & L has always terminated where it does now.

 

Although it may have been possible to thread a way through the various docks without going out onto the river I don't believe there was ever a canal link as such.

[fender.]

Quote;

 

"The waterway between Stanley Docks and the South Docks was lost when the Royal Liver Building was built on the Georges Dock in the early 20th century".

 

Are we sure about that, looks like some hack journalist has got that wrong.  As I understand it the new canal will connect to the Leeds Liverpool in or close to Stanley Dock and link to Albert Dock.  As far as I know the L & L has always terminated where it does now. 

 

Although it may have been possible to thread a way through the various docks without going out onto the river I don't believe there was ever a canal link as such.

31847[/snapback]

 

Maybe this journalist thought boats were carried along the Liverpool Overhead Railway??

[DHutch]

Maybe this journalist thought boats were carried along the Liverpool Overhead Railway?? 

They where?

- I should now, it was me that carryed them!

 

 

[gaggle]

tracable history to 1767 when original survey took place and design was confirmed.

 

construction began at vauxhall rd/leeds street at the end of old hall street in 1770.

(finished 1816)

 

 

 

when opened regular packet boat services connected all the main centres with light,fast vessels drawn by two or more hoses at a canter with a postillion.

i am sure there is a pic in the gallery showing the rope scars .

 

this info is in the phamlet by vauxhall resource centre.

 

the locks at stanley dock,you can still pass these for about 100 mtr,s but some of this length has been filled in since the 70,s.the tate and lyle sugar refinary was on the stretch just past the locks.

[CanalWalker]

Yes the journalist got it wrong. the canal terminated at Old Hall street, then Leeds Street, then Chisenhale Street, now at Eldonian Village, it never went to Georges Dock and didnt even go to Princes Dock.

 

Access to the docks was via Stanely Dock with the locks designed and built by the great Jesse Hartley after the canal terminus was moved away from the docks furtehr along.

 

Plenty of photos and maps on my website!

[gaggle]

just had a look on your site red do you know the bootle barge company was at one stage next to the wharf pub,i think they invented the water witch or built them1970 onwards. and the buses parked up picture are you aware what else you can catch there or so i am told.it aint the bus.

[adam1uk]

Quote;

 

"The waterway between Stanley Docks and the South Docks was lost when the Royal Liver Building was built on the Georges Dock in the early 20th century".

 

Are we sure about that, looks like some hack journalist has got that wrong.  As I understand it the new canal will connect to the Leeds Liverpool in or close to Stanley Dock and link to Albert Dock.  As far as I know the L & L has always terminated where it does now. 

 

Although it may have been possible to thread a way through the various docks without going out onto the river I don't believe there was ever a canal link as such.

31847[/snapback]

 

Slightly unfair on my colleagues at BBC News Online, I feel, as they were quoting from a government news release.

 

http://www.gnn.gov.uk/content/detail.asp?N...eleaseID=170298

 

which says

...to complete the missing section of the Leeds & Liverpool Canal on the Mersey waterfront. The 2km stretch of missing waterway between Stanley Docks and the South Docks was lost in the early 20th century when the Royal Liver Building was erected on the filled-in Georges Dock.

 

[CanalWalker]

I would have thought the BBC had learnt to check government statements...

[Carrie]

I would have thought the BBC had learnt to check government statements...

33201[/snapback]

 

 

Are you kidding? The BBC will state whatever the government tells it to. We've all seen what happens when they step out of line...

[gaggle]

today in the paper"local echo"the head of bw regeneration mr david cochrane is making the statement that he expects 4500 boats to cruise down the leeds and liverpool canal to make use of the new pier head link.

the date for the opening is now 2007 and it is without doubt going ahead.

 

the final miles of canal into liverpool from lydiate/maghull ? at the moment the stretch is remainder status and i can only hope that it is given cruiser status very soon.

 

the weed problem on the canal has hugely improved over the past couple of months.

the giant lily like leaves that almost covered every bit of water have now dissappeared almost,this may have happened thanks to bw employing some weedkiller as a brown coloured powder was spread all over the canal from aintree to liverpool.

 

the cruiser status may provide further funds for dredging and rubbish removal.

 

litherland and netherton now seem to be the worst affected area,s re-dumping, lets hope the flytippers get the message when the increased patrols appear.

[cheshire~rose]

 

litherland and netherton now seem to be the worst affected area,s re-dumping, lets hope the flytippers get the message when the increased patrols appear.

I was walking along the Litherland section only yesterday and although the water was very clear it is full of rubbish and also has a great deal of weed growth. It will be wonderful to get more boats passing this area as the urban nature reserve (Rimrose Valley?) along the bank is really very pleasant in places and more boating traffic can only improve the area. There are some very upmarkey appartment buildings along there now and I am certain that the people who buy them did not do so too take in the view of the pop bottles and shopping trolleys in the canal!

This has to be great news for the city as a whole.

[gaggle]

question at the NABO annual meeting Q-why is 7 million being spent on liverpool extension?

the well researched and informative answer -YOU MAY WELL ASK.

 

SUCH A PATHETIC RESPONSE FROM WHAT I CAN ONLY THINK IS AN EQAULLY PATHETIC ASSOCIATION.

 

at this point it was suggested canaltime boats be moved to liverpool docks!!!!!!!!!

 

it is worth noting that canaltime operations were given some stick and were looked on as something of a nuisance,the insinuation i took to be liverpool is the place to dump unwanted operations.

 

i would suggest nabo visit the south docks at liverpool to see why the money is being spent on the link and also to research what money is being spent and who is suppling the funds.

 

it is definitly not coming from boat licence revenue,s alone.

 

dont bother to go to nabo site for news of the waterways,you will be directed elsewhere.

this is one member who will not be renewing subscription.

[John Orentas]

Perhaps NABO believe that if that money was not being spent on the Mersey Link it would be spent on other canals somewhere else, that's a very naive attitude, these people should get involved with trying to raise that kind of money, having to justify every penny in terms of job creation and amenity value it is not easy. In my opinion the link is a very worthwhile project with all kinds of spin-offs.

 

The issue with Canaltime does highlight a big problem, although no one wants inappropriate business use the fact is, and it may come as a surprise to many of those south of Watford there is no shortage mooring space, not in this part of the country anyway, since the restoration of all these docklands we have been left with vast tracts of water, very nice but where are all the boats.

 

Manchester, Liverpool, Preston all have hundreds if not thousands of unoccupied marina spaces but no-one apparently wants to go there. I do know that the powers in Manchester spent years trying to attract boats into what was Manchester Docks they seem to have given up now. A shame really these places have had huge sums of money spent on them with posh houses and apartments built on what were derelict warehouses, wide Venice type canals and tree lined boulevards between them, the only thing missing. Boats.

[gaggle]

the boats will continue to stay away with the negative attitudes from the likes of nabo.

the comments were made at the annual meeting and therefore will be repeated in many publications and on many web sites.

it can only lead to division in the canal communities and this is the opposite of what nabo is supposed to do.

 

as a relative newcomer to the canal fraternity i am dismayed by this.

 

the waterborne activities at the south docks in liverpool have increased vastly over recent years,the link will not just take boats past the liver building to the shops it will open up to a huge area of reclaimed modernised docks with all kinds of facilities.

lots of people have spent a lot of time and money and effort to revitilise these area,s and for all the effort to be dismissed by the likes of nabo and its officers is scandalous.

as you pointed out john it is not only liverpool these improvemnts are carried out,the manchester area you speak of has lots to offer and the people and boats have not arrived so we have to ask why,i believe a lot has to do with negative comments in the canal media and its time they were challenged.

[Big COL]

Hi Gaggle

 

It's your neck of the woods and you must know it well. I have never had enough time available to be able to cruise this area, it's on the back burner for when I retire. If I was to believe all the bad press about bandits in this area I wouldn't go near the place. As I believe in seeing for myself then I will arrive one day.

You can't just blame the Nabo, unfortunately bad press of this area has been published by the canal mags, the most condemning ones are the ones published on canal web sites by boaters reliving their worst moments in this area, these are the ones that seems to strike fear into other boaters, added to which it is probably escalated by Chinese whispers. No smoke without fire. Well as I have already said I will see for myself, then draw my own conclusions.

[gaggle]

i am of the same opinion as yourself col i will only believe what i see for myself,i have been been rapped by some on here for saying the bandit stuff is overstated.

i decided today to look for blogs by other boaters that have been to liverpool and see what is the perception of real visitor,s and i have found one boater that has been to stanley dock-eldonian village.

the boat is osprey and the site www.goodsell or something and he states in the link canal ends"the locals are very friendly towards boaters".this is the only blogger i have found today that has been and his response to the place was positive.

 

my point was that nabo as an assoiciation should not make and indeed publish such stupid generalisations,i did read the peice several times in the hope that it was meant as a humourous aside ,i can take a joke,but they were serious.

 

anyway in a few years the joke will be on them,we will thrive as a destination when the link comes to fruition.

 

[cheshire~rose]

I have to admit being guilty as far as believing the generalisations made by the media, but I am constantly being proved wrong!

I had until last year NEVER been to Liverpool nor ever had the desire to go. I thought (because its what the media wanted me to believe) that if I ventured into the area I would have to drive my car at more than 60 mph so the wheels would not get stolen! I am ashamed to say I took the bait and BELIEVED it!

In the last 2 months I have been lucky enough (yes thats correct LUCKY) to visit the Liverpool/ Merseyside area on 3 seperate occasions. Well to anyone out there who, like me, had been brainwashed by the media I have to say do not belive a word of it! Liverpool like any other city has areas that are not quite so pleasant to be in but everyone I have encountered has been extremely friendly and welcoming, the city itself has a wealth of history and culture which HAS to be experienced to be appreciated and I am a firm believer than this new link will be a jewel in the crown of the city. I cannot wait to go back again next month.

Manchester also has its problems and when we ventured into Manchester on our hire boat some years ago we had to adhere to very strict regulations from the hire firm about where we could and could not stop and where we should employ a 'lookout' for bandits! Many people would have been put off travelling into the centre of the city by this approach (which I acknowledge is required for insurance purposes) but we were having an adventure and if an encounter with bandits was part of it then so be it. The journey into and out of the city went completely without a single problem and we enjoyed a wonderful night moored right in the heart of the city.

While I can appreciate that boat owners will think twice about venturing into some areas in case they encounter problems I feel sure that it is only because the masses choose NOT to venture into these areas that they are in danger of becoming ghettos where boaters will only venture if they have riot squad type armour plating to their vessel.

What a very great pity that would be

[Richard Fairhurst]

i would suggest nabo visit the south docks at liverpool to see why the money is being spent on the link and also to research what money is being spent and who is suppling the funds.

 

it is definitly not coming from boat licence revenue,s alone.

 

In fact, very little is coming from BW at all. (This is pretty much standard for restoration/new-build projects - Transport Act 1968 doesn't let BW spend its money on unnavigable waterways other than for public safety).

 

I do know that the powers in Manchester spent years trying to attract boats into what was Manchester Docks they seem to have given up now. A shame really these places have had huge sums of money spent on them with posh houses and apartments built on what were derelict warehouses, wide Venice type canals and tree lined boulevards between them, the only thing missing. Boats.

 

Agreed. But this is largely because MSC Co isn't keen on pleasure boats using the MSC. Access to the uppermost reach of the MSC will have to be sorted out when the MB&B is restored, anyway, so I'd expect some progress on this before long.

 

as you pointed out john it is not only liverpool these improvemnts are carried out,the manchester area you speak of has lots to offer and the people and boats have not arrived so we have to ask why,i believe a lot has to do with negative comments in the canal media and its time they were challenged.

 

Not in our bit of the canal media!

 

We aim to print a representative selection of readers' letters. If you've boated through an urban area and feel it's not as black as it's painted, do write and tell us.

 

On the positive side, you might have noticed a big article on the Liverpool Link in December's WW. I think it's a great scheme.

[John Orentas]

Quote Richard Fairhurst:

 

"Agreed. But this is largely because MSC Co isn't keen on pleasure boats using the MSC. Access to the uppermost reach of the MSC will have to be sorted out when the MB&B is restored, anyway, so I'd expect some progress on this before long".

 

Hi Richard.

 

So why when Salford Quays was created was an entire dock the size of ten football pitches ear-marked for moorings to say nothing about the dedicated spaces for the residents. Why was that huge amount of money (much of it through various grants) spent on the new Pomona lock to link the ship canal to the Bridgewater.

 

The Ship Canal Company did have a negative attitude towards pleasure boats but I believe not any longer, but there are massive problems in the use of the lower reaches, the impossibility of any kind of emergency road access and the manpower required to operate the locks, to name but two. The upper reaches including the Salford Quays area could be boat friendly and is fully accessible though at a exorbitant cost, the major problem is that very 'commercial' attitude of the owners of the canal (Peel Holdings).

 

I am a little surprised too that there is so little public concern towards another of their 'possessions'. Having received large amounts of public money for the resoration of the Castlefield area as an amenity Peel Holdings have now seen fit to display "Private No Mooring" signs over much of the water-space.

 

Perhaps your respected magazine could take a more pro-active attitude with such matters.

[Richard Fairhurst]

So why when Salford Quays was created was an entire dock the size of ten football pitches ear-marked for moorings to say nothing about the dedicated spaces for the residents. Why was that huge amount of money (much of it through various grants) spent on the new Pomona lock to link the ship canal to the Bridgewater.

Pomona was an obligation. MSC Co wanted to close the Hulme Locks Branch link, through which there was a statutory right of navigation. A replacement at Pomona was the quid pro quo.

 

Salford I don't know about, but I suspect that grand intentions haven't been followed through.

The Ship Canal Company did have a negative attitude towards pleasure boats but I believe not any longer, but there are massive problems in the use of the lower reaches, the impossibility of any kind of emergency road access and the manpower required to operate the locks, to name but two. The upper reaches including the Salford Quays area could be boat friendly and is fully accessible though at a exorbitant cost, the major problem is that very 'commercial' attitude of the owners of the canal (Peel Holdings).

Peel Holdings are the MSC Co. They are indeed a lot more friendly then they used to be (unless you own a shared-ownership boat!), but still a long way behind other navigation authorities.

 

I agree totally about the lower reaches - restoring Runcorn Locks seems a much more sensible alternative to me - but I see little reason why the uppermost reach shouldn't be opened up to (say) all Bridgewater licence holders. With Phase 1 of the MB&B imminent, perhaps it will be.

I am a little surprised too that there is so little public concern towards another of their 'possessions'. Having received large amounts of public money for the resoration of the Castlefield area as an amenity Peel Holdings have now seen fit to display "Private No Mooring" signs over much of the water-space.

 

Perhaps your respected magazine could take a more pro-active attitude with such matters.

Can you tell me any more about Castlefield?

 

You will, hopefully, have seen our big report a couple of months ago on the discussions between BW and Peel about taking over the Bridgewater. Access to the top reach of the MSC is all tied in with this and doubtless there'll be more to come in the next year...

[gaggle]

the new crossing over the mersey at runcorn has been given the go ahead todays paper reports.

peel holdings are very supportive of this scheme and i would not mind betting that somewhere along the line enhancement of canals will be included in the grand plan.

[John Orentas]

The restoration of one of the staircase flights of locks connecting the Bridgewater and Ship Canal is to some extent dependent on the new crossing, it was the original bridge and approach roads that destroyed the locks in the first place.

 

Not sure about enhancement of the canals, Peel Holdings will always be around when there is a profit to be made.

[gaggle]

 

pics hopefully show what is happening around the route through the old docks going from stanley docks in pic 1 to peir head pic 10

 

 

 

 

 

this path is where the canal will be cut through to the albert dock

 

 

 

[gaggle]

the edit does not seem to be available to say what each pic shows but anyway in the background on pic 1 is the clock tower that will be seen as you descend from eldonion village to the dock complex from the canal of old.

the building on the left in waterloo dock has been transformed from derelict warehouse to flats,it is one example of the old that is worth saving.

 

the building of hotels and housing towers along the route is progressing at some pace and with lots of the street furniture in place it gives the feeling that the whole plan is working,a veiw across the river is maintained by keeping plenty of open space between the buildings and the sea wall.

 

pic no 9 well may be the place that the link channel itself will be started from although that may mean the war memorial to the right may have to be re-sited.

 

pic no 8 shows st nicks church standing defiantly amongst all of the redevelopment and rebuilding of the city around it,it has a great history as the church for seaman and during the war a terrible tragedy occurred there.