Property Development

[anthony]

Me and the Missus and the dog went for a trot down the canals in the center of Manchester for a couple of hours exploring today.

 

A company called http://www.urbansplash.co.uk have built posh flats costing silly money because they overlook the canal.

 

IM discusted at the state of the canal around these flats and wonder if BW should not demand property developers selling flash modern city center appartments with canal written in the sales pitch money towards the canal and its surrounding area's upkeep.

 

Some of the blocks have little area's of water inbetween them that are run down which could be lovely little moorings bringing in extra funds for the water ways.

 

To top things up i saw a rental boat moving around in a lock almost sideways while the lady at the helm just sat there while the guy watched the lock fill up.

Why no one was holding a rope controlling the boats movement i dont know.

What are these rental firms doing letting clueless people on the canal for?

 

Sorry for the rants.

Edited September 11, 2005 by anthony

[Paul Evans]

As I recall from my last trip to Manchester, the Urban Splash developments are along the Bridgewater Canal which is owned and operated by the Manchester Ship Canal Company in conjunction with the Bridgewater Canal Trust. The Manchester Ship Canal Company is part of the Peel Ports group owned by Manchester based Peel Holdings Ltd, one of the UK's largest property and transport companies. You shouldn't blame BW for the state of the Bridgewater! To give you some idea the group attaches to the canal, try to find a reference to the canal on their website!

 

The Rochdale Canal is controlled now (thank goodness!) by BW, although it has its share of problems, the toughness of the 9 locks up to Ducie Street being just one of them.

[anthony]

The advertising banners on the flats are advertising them as canal side apartments.

I dont blame BW i think BW should receive funds from developers.

There was a blody lpg gas bottle floating in the canal!!

I didnt know BW did'nt own the bridgewater canal, despite having to pay BW a licence fee in the near future so i can use my boat on the Bridgewater.

 

Oh well I only want to do my bit to make it a better place.

[Paul@CW]

What are these rental firms doing letting clueless people on the canal for?

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These "rental firms" as well as running as business, are letting those people who are unable to buy their own boat enjoy our canals. I'm fairly sure that the bloke who goes out and buys a brand new boat is pretty clueless the first time he takes it out unless he does some sort of course and so we all have to learn somewhere. As far as I'm aware there are no narrowboat simulators that let you practise in safety before being allowed out.

 

Hire boat companies will usually give instruction to people on how to operate the boat, how to navigate canal structures such as locks and tunnels and canal etiquette and safety.

 

However they cannot really be held responsible for people's mistakes along the cut just as hire car companies cannot be held responsible if the driver has a crash.

 

I do believe that without hireboats on the canals the system would die out pretty quickly as there would be no one to attract new users. The system would be like a ghost town with the remaining few alive boat owners and the few people they have pursuaded to buy their own boat pottering around.

 

My rant over too.

[gaggle]

hire companies had nothing to do with me getting a boat,i chanced upon a site that showed someone fitting a bath in a boat.

i was looking for bath supplier and ended up buying a boat.

i had lived by and played on the cut for most of my life so i was no stranger to the cut.

hire companies had nothing to do with it.i wonder what makes people decide to do it,as a matter of fact i wonder why i decided to do it.

[John Orentas]

Those property developers may well be British Waterways themselves or alternatively the previous owners of the Rochdale Canal, it is very true that large amounts of money have been and are still being made out of the canal environment in Manchester, perhaps we should be asking why a tiny amount of that money can not be put back and invested in the restoration of that flight of nine locks to a reasonable safe standard.

 

There is more than one way to manage a Narrowboat even in a wide lock, it is said by many that the use of ropes to control a boat in a lock is bad practise, I for one would never use ropes in that way.

 

It may not be generally known but there is a reciprocal arrangement in place for the holders of BW licenses to use the Bridgewater and vice versa, it is a bit complex but in practise there are few obstacles.

[Paul@CW]

hire companies had nothing to do with me getting a boat,i chanced upon a site that showed someone fitting a bath in a boat. i was looking for bath supplier and ended up buying a boat.

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wow gaggle, I am happy for you that you are lucky enough to be able to afford to do such a thing. Unfortunately a lot of us are not in that position and so hire companies are our only way of getting on the canals.

[david and julie]

It may not be generally known but there is a reciprocal arrangement in place for the holders of BW licenses to use the Bridgewater and vice versa, it is a bit complex but in practise there are few obstacles

I am on the Bridgewater and was told I could go onto BW waters for upto 2 weeks at a time. They never put a limit on the ammount of 2 week periods though.

 

They say you can only make so far, and back, in this time, I believe the limits from Preston Brook are Wigan and Hurleston junction or Barbridge. We can buy a BW licence off Peel for a full year or for lesser periods, if just going on holiday.

 

I have no idea what the situation is with CC and the Bridgewater or if they even allow it their water. I can't see why a BW CC couldn't come and go under these arrangements though.

 

BTW, We hired boats as a taster before buying our own.

Edited September 12, 2005 by david and julie

[Derek]

The two week limit does not include any mileage limits, I have often seen Bridgewater licenced boats "doing" the four counties ring and beyond.

 

Derek

[anthony]

Paul@CW IM not putting down the usefullness of hire boats so IM not sure where the foundation of your rant lays other than assumption .

 

I do however after seeing what i saw dont beleive the rental firm did much of a safety talk to these customers.

 

I for one will be going on a handling course,something I think should be a requirement before BW even give a boat owner a licence or insurance companies give cover.

 

The cost involved in buying a boat would surely tempt anyone to get proper training.

 

I won't appologise for being logical and sensible.

 

Prevention is better than cure surely something training offers.

 

Moving around in a lock and nearly getting caught up in a hire boat does'nt really represent the benefits of hire firms for the waterways very well does it?

[Bernie]

The two week limit does not include any mileage limits, I have often seen Bridgewater licenced boats "doing" the four counties ring and beyond.

 

Derek

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You can have dual licences. Years ago when we were based on the Bridgewater and were rather ignorant of the fact, we only had a Bridgewater licence and were pulled up when doing the 4 counties ring by the control at the southern end of the Harecastle. After a little persuasion he did let us continue but we were reported to BW.

 

On arrival home we then applied for a BW licence via the Manchester Ship canal Co, which was supplied at a reduced cost. So yes the Bridgewater licence does only cover certain distances.

Edited September 12, 2005 by Bernie

[John Orentas]

Yes when I was based at Worsley on the Bridgewater I had the same experience (a few times) as Bernie. The tunnel keepers at the Harecastle would tell us about the errors of our ways but I always got away with it by acting daft and wringing my cap.

 

There is nothing wrong with a boat 'moving around' in a lock, in fact when it stops moving around that is when your craft is at risk.

Not quite the same thing but a very good tip for a narrowboat in a narrow lock. When you get that unpleasant feeling that the water is going up and you aren't, from your steering position keep the boat gently rocking this will make the boat less likely to jamb between the lock sides.

[Paul@CW]

I do however after seeing what i saw dont beleive the rental firm did much of a safety talk to these customers.

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But you are assuming that not much of a safety talk was given. What can the hire firm do if the hirer chooses to ignore it? Follow them around for a week?

 

 

Moving around in a lock and nearly getting caught up in a hire boat does'nt really represent the benefits of hire firms for the waterways very well does it?

 

As John says, there is nothing wrong with moving around in a lock providing you are alert to you surroundings and what is going on. If the boat almost got caught up then I assume they were going down the lock which would mean even less need for ropes than going up. Personally I never use ropes in wide locks when we are the single boat. Going up the tried and trusted method of boat near the bottom gates and open the paddle on the same side of the boat works wonders.

 

My rant comes from your statement that implies that hire companies should be responsible for the actions of the hirers rather than those hirers being responsible for their own actions. After all, the man who sells a private owner his boat is not responsible for that owners actions.

[anthony]

I disagree Paul.

Boat Hire companies should be responsible.

You reply ''what do you expect them to do follow them around'' implies you wash your hands and couldnt give a monkies.

 

The people were going up and they were not paying attention,im not a bloody idiot.

 

Fair enough they might have been told about safety but if safety was covered thouroughly i dont think people would ignore it.

 

If i buy a boat its my boat so its my responsibility if i lend it or hired it then that is my responsibility to ensure safety.

 

I take it your hire out boats?

[Paul@CW]

No I don't think the companies should wash their hands of it and the one I know certainly doesn't. In fact 2 days ago a hire group past one of the workers in the near dark and they were told to stop.

 

I do, on occasion, work with a hire boat company and trust me when i say that you can tell peoplen safety until you are blue in the face but once they are away from you they will do what they like. That it not an assumption on my part, that is fact. People do ignore it.

[anthony]

Ok point taken Paul thank you.

[bottle]

You can make something foolproof but not idiot proof.

 

This goes for training as well, before my first hire, I read the books, visited the hirer.

 

Now I am not boasting but I thought this the correct thing to do and it helped.

 

 

This example of idiots, is pictured in the October issue of Waterways World.

 

The picture is of a small cruiser (about 12ft) on-board and on cabin roof can be seen SIX children and FOUR adults the foredeck is approximately 9 to 12 inches above water level.

 

 

There is also a picture of aboat on fire at Hawksbury on the 7th of August.

[Derek]

You can have dual licences. Years ago when we were based on the Bridgewater and were rather ignorant of the fact, we only had a Bridgewater licence and were pulled up when doing the 4 counties ring by the control at the southern end of the Harecastle. After a little persuasion he did let us continue but we were reported to BW.

 

On arrival home we then applied for a BW licence via the Manchester Ship canal Co, which was supplied at a reduced cost. So yes the Bridgewater licence does only cover certain distances.

30644[/snapback]

I must have seen twenty brigdewater ONLY licenced boats pass my moorings on the southern Shroppie this summer. But I bow to local knowledge!

 

Derek

Edited September 13, 2005 by Derek

[anthony]

So would I be right in thinking that from Northwich to Manchester lock nine i think it is where Barca is that none of this is actually British Waterways?

 

So if i have my BW licence but get pulled on the Bridgewater what happens?

More importantly AM I insured fi an accident happens?

 

Thanks.

[John Orentas]

I must have seen twenty brigdewater ONLY licenced boats pass my moorings on the southern Shroppie this summer. But I bow to local knowledge!

 

Derek

30855[/snapback]

 

 

Derek.

 

It is possible to get down there semi legitimately, as has been said there are only a few places where the passage of boats is documented, the Harecastle being the main one up here.

I think BW see it as a monitoring exercise, I am sure they will react if they consider money can be made.

[Bernie]

So would I be right in thinking that from Northwich to Manchester lock nine i think it is where Barca is that none of this is actually British Waterways?

 

So if i have my BW licence but get pulled on the Bridgewater what happens?

More importantly AM I insured fi an accident happens?

 

Thanks.

30859[/snapback]

With just a BW licence you are allowed to travel on the Bridgewater, if I remember rightly it is for 7 days, since the canal is not very long and it actually starts around Preston Brook and goes all the way to Wigan in one direction and to the Rochdale in another, unless you spend a couple of weeks or more there you have no problems. I doubt if things are checked on this canal anyway, but we never spend anymore than 5/6 days on the Bridgewater since we left our moorings there over 10 years ago.

[bottle]

So would I be right in thinking that from Northwich to Manchester lock nine i think it is where Barca is that none of this is actually British Waterways?

 

So if i have my BW licence but get pulled on the Bridgewater what happens?

More importantly AM I insured fi an accident happens?

 

Thanks.

30859[/snapback]

 

Anthony another link for you http://www.aina.org.uk/documents/95825GBWaterways.pdf (you will have to zoom in)

 

If you have BW licence there is a reciprocal measure in force, you are allowed onto the Bridgewater for two weeks.

 

Insurance, check with your company but most policies cover inland waterways and are not specific.

[david and julie]

So would I be right in thinking that from Northwich to Manchester lock nine i think it is where Barca is that none of this is actually British Waterways?

 

So if i have my BW licence but get pulled on the Bridgewater what happens?

More importantly AM I insured fi an accident happens?

 

Thanks.

30859[/snapback]

 

Thats right it belongs to Peel Holdings the people who own the Trafford Centre. The canal stops a bit short of Northwich at Preston Brook.

 

There is less of a problem with BW registered boats coming onto the Bridgewater as you could go from end to end in 2 weeks.

 

Your BW licence is OK, as we said for periods of upto 2 weeks. I doubt the insurance company would be interested in licensing issues like this.

Edited September 13, 2005 by david and julie