Solid Fuel Burner Installation.

[kayak]

Hi All.

 

First, May I say how pleased I am that cotswoldsman noticed his smoking hearth before anything bad happened. I think it has been a real wake up call. (Especially to me).

 

Second, sorry fo the spelling mistakes im bound to make (I cant spell or get the damn spell checker to work).

 

Right, like most other people i suppose who are fitting out a boat, we are planing to install a solid fuel burner. We have infact already got it, complete with back boiler. It is a Hunter Herald 6.

 

I am being guided through the build by a well respected marine surveyor (who for now I won't name) and I have been informed by him that above all else a solid fuel stove must be installed with the manufactures instructions. Now, I have seen as best I can (cant find the full .pdf) the draft document for the installation of stoves on boats and it looks very similar to , and the diagrams are identical to, part J of the building regulations for normal dwellings.

 

In the instruction manual for my stove it sates that " In all cases the installation must comply with current Building Regulations, Local Authority Byelaws, European and national standards and other specifications or regulations as they affect the installation of the stove. It should be noted that the Building Regulations requirements may be met by adopting the relevant recommendations given in British Standards BS 8303, BS 6461 and BS 7566 as an alternative means to achieve an equivalent level of performance to that obtained following the

guidance given in Approved Document J."

 

I take this as basically saying that regardless of anything, the stove must be installed to part J.

 

Fine, i'll install it to part J then.

 

However Part J says, under the "Limitation On Requirement" that in accordance with reg 8, the requirements in Parts A to K in the building reg (except the bits taht deal with contaminated water) do not require anything to be done except for the purpose of securing reasonable standards of health and safety for persons in or about buildings.

 

This to me is a loop hole! (please correct me if im wrong)

 

So this brings up the last question " Is my surveyor right?" Do I have to follow the stove makers instruction or should i be installing to the diagrams shown in the draft document? And, does the draft document point to the fact that the stove must be fitted in accordance witht the makers instructions?

 

Id love to (and need to) get my head round this because my main priority is making a safe installation ( regardless of the cost or messing about involved) but at the same time I want to know if I can use the draft as a "guide" if all i have to do is "secure reasonable standards of health and safety"

 

I hope there are some comments on this and someone who is really in the know can shed some light or comment. It would be a real shame after all these years we can no longer put stoves in boats.

 

Many thanks for taking the time to read this, I know its hard going.

 

Kayak.

[blackrose]

Hi All.

 

First, May I say how pleased I am that cotswoldsman noticed his smoking hearth before anything bad happened. I think it has been a real wake up call. (Especially to me).

 

Second, sorry fo the spelling mistakes im bound to make (I cant spell or get the damn spell checker to work).

 

Right, like most other people i suppose who are fitting out a boat, we are planing to install a solid fuel burner. We have infact already got it, complete with back boiler. It is a Hunter Herald 6.

 

I am being guided through the build by a well respected marine surveyor (who for now I won't name) and I have been informed by him that above all else a solid fuel stove must be installed with the manufactures instructions. Now, I have seen as best I can (cant find the full .pdf) the draft document for the installation of stoves on boats and it looks very similar to , and the diagrams are identical to, part J of the building regulations for normal dwellings.

 

In the instruction manual for my stove it sates that " In all cases the installation must comply with current Building Regulations, Local Authority Byelaws, European and national standards and other specifications or regulations as they affect the installation of the stove. It should be noted that the Building Regulations requirements may be met by adopting the relevant recommendations given in British Standards BS 8303, BS 6461 and BS 7566 as an alternative means to achieve an equivalent level of performance to that obtained following the

guidance given in Approved Document J."

 

I take this as basically saying that regardless of anything, the stove must be installed to part J.

 

Fine, i'll install it to part J then.

 

However Part J says, under the "Limitation On Requirement" that in accordance with reg 8, the requirements in Parts A to K in the building reg (except the bits taht deal with contaminated water) do not require anything to be done except for the purpose of securing reasonable standards of health and safety for persons in or about buildings.

 

This to me is a loop hole! (please correct me if im wrong)

 

So this brings up the last question " Is my surveyor right?" Do I have to follow the stove makers instruction or should i be installing to the diagrams shown in the draft document? And, does the draft document point to the fact that the stove must be fitted in accordance witht the makers instructions?

 

Id love to (and need to) get my head round this because my main priority is making a safe installation ( regardless of the cost or messing about involved) but at the same time I want to know if I can use the draft as a "guide" if all i have to do is "secure reasonable standards of health and safety"

 

I hope there are some comments on this and someone who is really in the know can shed some light or comment. It would be a real shame after all these years we can no longer put stoves in boats.

 

Many thanks for taking the time to read this, I know its hard going.

 

Kayak.

 

Its a very convoluted question and I have no idea of the amswer.

It shouldn't really be that complicated. Somewhere in the installation instructions it should give minimum distances that the stove should be positioned from combustible materials.

As you know, you should line the hearth area with fire proof board before tiling. Extend the hearth as far as practicably possible to cover all combustible materials. Ideally you should do this behind the flue too (and obviously on the ceiling as the flue goes through where you should also have scraped back a decent amount of foam all around the flue and filled the area with rockwool).

You will not possibly be able to follow regs for stove installation in a house - a morso squirrel for example requires a 4m combined flue/chimney length. How would one achieve this on a NB?

It seems like your surveyor is making things more difficult and complex than it needs to be - probably the reason I didn't bother with their services when I fitted out my boat.

Edited August 6, 2009 by blackrose

[kayak]

Its a very convoluted question and I have no idea of the amswer.

It shouldn't really be that complicated. Somewhere in the installation instructions it should give minimum distances that the stove should be positioned from combustible materials.

As you know, you should line the hearth area with fire proof board before tiling. Extend the hearth as far as practicably possible to cover all combustible materials. Ideally you should do this behind the flue too (and obviously on the ceiling as the flue goes through where you should also have scraped back a decent amount of foam all around the flue and filled the area with rockwool).

You will not possibly be able to follow regs for stove installation in a house - a morso squirrel for example requires a 4m combined flue/chimney length. How would one achieve this on a NB?

It seems like your surveyor is making things more difficult and complex than it needs to be - probably the reason I didn't bother with their services when I fitted out my boat.

 

 

Hi Blackrose.

 

Its a convoluted question, I struggle with getting what I mean onto the screen. What im basically asking is "does all the guidance point to building regs?"

 

Because if it does then nothing more than achieving a safe installation has to be done.

 

I dont think that surveyor is making things difficult, all he said was that the stove had to be installed with the makers instructions.

 

Kayak.

[rjasmith]

Presume you must have seen the thread back in the Spring about the new draft BS CoP on Solid Fuel Stove Installations on Boats?

 

If not, see Stoves Link

 

Quite a few people (including me) commented to BS and I suppose they must be re writing it for re issue some time in the Autumn. Many of the comments picked up on the references to and plagiarising of the Building Regs Part J stuff and strongly suggested that much of this was inappropriate on boats!

 

I still have the full Draft BS CoP as a pdf if you would like to see it - I also have my comments which were similar to those of quite a few others.

 

When I do the stoves on our fit out I too will try to follow whatever form the final document takes but I sincerely hope it becomes a much more practical and sensible version than the first terrible attempt!!!

 

Richard

[stuart]

Dont forget that building regs dont actually cover boats!

 

The problem you will have is the stoves have never been tested or issued as suitable on boats (even though many are) so the instructions are designed for house fitting. If you apply these regs to a boat install, you will end up with the stove in the middle of the boat with nothing near it for a good 2 ft around!

 

As mentioned above, use common sense, fire insulation board (cement board) and adequate distances (you will have to work this out yourself) between lining and stove.

[sueb]

I wouldn't try and follow the draft instructions because they could well be very different when eventually published.

Sue

[kayak]

I wouldn't try and follow the draft instructions because they could well be very different when eventually published.

Sue

 

 

Hi all and thanks for the replies.

 

Thats sound advice Sue. Does anyone have any real date as to when they are likely to be published?

 

Richard, thanks for the offer but I found a copy just before dinner. To be honest, after a good read through they dont seem too hard to comply with in general. Not as bad as I was expecting anyway.

 

Stuart, Im aware that building regs dont cover boats. However I was told by a qualified marine surveyor (who has been well praised by many on this site) that I had to install the stove to the manufacturers instructions. And the maufacturers instructions pointed to the Building regs. And then the Building regs say that "nothing has to be done other than achieve a safe installation" so that is sort of up to interpretation! I have also been told this by a HETAS fitter! So it was just sort of like following a trail. To be fair to the draft regs, they seem much more sensible that the building regs.

 

I have just re-read that last bit and it seems like i'm being sharp! Im not honest, its just all so confusing!

 

Thanks for all your input, please keep it comming!

 

Kayak.

[Dawnie]

Approved Document J (AD J) as with all AD's are guidance on how to comply with the Regulations, not the Regulations themselves.

Edited August 6, 2009 by Carol Whale