Diesel Central Heating

[Oileigh]

I've lived aboard my 70ft narrow boat for the last two winters with only a solid fuel burner for heating. It's nice, but now it's time to go up market and install a diesel central heating system.

 

I would like some advice please. What is the best central heating system?

 

I have been looking at Bubble heating sysems. If anyone has any one of these fitted could you please let me know what you think of it.

 

No more cold winters! I hope!

[Gary Peacock]

The bubble system is good and stands out from the competition in that it is built from off the shelf components and can be serviced and repaired by probably any heating engineer.

 

We fit a lot of Eberspacher systems and have little or no problem with them however we do fit units large enough to do the job and all our boats have twin tanks enabling them to be run on kerosene rather than gas oil. But remember these heaters can only be serviced or worked on by authorised dealers.

 

We are now fitting the newcomer on the market the Hurricane heater this is a very impressive peace of kit and other than it's relatively large size would seem to be one of the best options in specification and performance and unlike many other systems DIY service and repair are encouraged!

 

You can find links to all these products here-

http://www.ledgardbridge-boatcompany.com/h...ting_water.html

 

Hope this helps.

[Rose]

 

I would like some advice please. What is the best central heating system?

 

 

We have an "Old English" Kabola diesel heater... absolutely no problems and would recomend them. Kuranda marine have a web site which tells you all about them.

http://www.kuranda.co.uk/kabola_heat.html

I suppose what you do need to consider these days, is the proposed changes to tax on red diesel, which could potentially make it a rather expensive system to run; particularly as Kabolas are designed to be lit and left running 24/7 in the winter. Any diesel heating system, is best with its own seperate tank, ( again you may be glad of this if heating diesel is exempt from any possible increases in tax)

Regards, Rose

[Gary Peacock]

Any diesel heating system, is best with its own separate tank

 

I would think by now that nearly all new builds are equipped with twin tanks, the EU harmonisation of fuel taxation was drafted quite a number of years ago and builders have being prepared for this.

[Big COL]

Any diesel heating system, is best with its own separate tank

 

I would think by now that nearly all new builds are equipped with twin tanks, the EU harmonisation of fuel taxation was drafted quite a number of years ago and builders have being prepared for this.

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Hi Gary

 

Twin tanks are not really the ultimate answer either, you will still have to fill the second tank with either red diesel or paraffin, which will probably mean humping cans of the stuff down the tow path. Once the change over to white diesel is made how many of the current suppliers will continue to offer red diesel/ paraffin as well, for the small quantity/ profit involved, not many. As I have said before I can see a lot of boaters going back to solid fuel stoves with back boilers, as to source red/paraffin will be too troublesome, whereas sacks of coal are all along the system. What a sad state of affairs this is with technology moving at the rate it is and we are faced with taking a retrograde step like this.

As for the Hurricane I can recommend this heater, apart from water and solid fuel it will just about burn any liquid thats combustible ( not to be taken literally) but it will handle all the normal boiler oils without any trouble, not like some heaters that shall remain nameless.

Edited August 19, 2005 by Big COL

[Alastair]

If you have a tank over 500l, then you can get bulk deliveries.

 

The new tanks on my gf barge will probably be twin 1000l.

[Big COL]

If you have a tank over 500l, then you can get bulk deliveries.

 

The new tanks on my gf barge will probably be twin 1000l.

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Alastair

 

2x 1000 ltrs equates to 1,790 kg of liquid ballast, how would position the tanks, to keep the boat in trim. 1.3/4 tonne of constantly varying ballast needs some thinking about. 500ltr comes to 1/2 tonne even that needs to be positioned correctly.

Edited August 30, 2005 by Big COL

[Alastair]

Engineroom is in the centre of the boat - we currently have a 1000ltr tank on deck, even when full, it didn't appreciably affect trim. Watertanks are about 2000ltr.

 

It's a matter of scale - the mast&boom probably weighs as much as a small narrowboat.

 

My small Tjalk (actually an Isselaak), is affected by filling the 400lt watertank, but it doesn't affect handling. But she's just a 50ft baby

[redfastlad]

twin tanks seems a bit ott just have the normal fuel tank with two stem pipes

the c/heating pipe being the shortest of the 2 so as not to run the boat out of fuel.

i have a bubble and it is fantastic really warm and very controllable.

[bottle]

twin tanks seems a bit ott just have the normal fuel tank with two stem pipes

the c/heating pipe being the shortest of the 2 so as not to run the boat out of fuel.

i have a bubble and it is fantastic really warm and very controllable.

31454[/snapback]

 

But with the advent of loss of derogation the ideal will be separate tanks for heating and engine, heating oil will still be 5% VAT rated, with only one tank the diesel heating will be using 'white' diesel at £1/litre

[Alastair]

Anyone here used the marine version of the Webasto heaters?

 

I'm put off the hurricane by 2 things - price, and exhaust temperature. The exhaust temperature is said to be 200C - the manufacturers recommend running the exhaust out of the transom/stern, so you don't set fire to a quay. (not kidding, that's what their installation guide says).

[Big COL]

Anyone here used the marine version of the Webasto heaters?

 

I'm put off the hurricane by 2 things - price, and exhaust temperature.  The exhaust temperature is said to be 200C - the manufacturers recommend running the exhaust out of the transom/stern, so you don't set fire to a quay.  (not kidding, that's what their installation guide says).

33495[/snapback]

 

Hi Alastair

 

Been there and done that, I set fire to the bank with mine, 9'' of wet green grass. Unfortunately mine is fitted with the exhaust away from the transom for sheer convenience of installation. This only happened the once and was overcome by dropping a Go-Kart wheel between the bank and the boat, it only needs a few inches for this not to be a problem.

The up side to this is with the exhaust at that temperature you can imagine just how clean the burn is inside the boiler, plus the output that it is achieving and the fuel economy with such a efficient burn.

As to the price, considering you get everything in the kit for a complete installation it isn't too bad for the quality of this boiler. There is nothing as far as I am concerned that comes close to the Hurricane for simplicity of installation, efficiency, and above all reliability. If I were you I would think again, and at least go and see one in operation.

Edited October 5, 2005 by Big COL

[Gary Peacock]

Hi Alastair

 

  Been there and done that, I set fire to the bank with mine, 9'' off wet green grass. Unfortunately mine is fitted with the exhaust away from the transom for sheer convenience of installation. This only happened the once and was overcome  by dropping a Go-Kart wheel between the bank and the boat, it only needs a few inches for this not to be a problem.

  The up side to this is with the exhaust at that temperature you can imagine just how clean the burn is inside the boiler, plus the output that it is achieving and the fuel economy with such a efficient burn.

  As to the price, considering you get everything in the kit for a complete installation it isn't too bad for the quality of this boiler. There is nothing as far as I am concerned that comes close to the Hurricane for simplicity of installation, efficiency, and above all reliability. If I were you I would think again, and at least go and see one in operation.

33559[/snapback]

 

From being Eberspacher enthusiasts we are rapidly becoming converted into Hurricane heater fans, this piece of kit makes most of the competition look very "Mickey Mouse"!

[Big COL]

Hi Gary

 

I take it you are impressed with the Hurricane. My dealings with the cab heater types has only been on the repair side, this is something I try and stay away from. I will only look at the ones belonging to friends and even then reluctantly.

What are the main reasons for your conversion, you are in a better position to judge having installed both types.

[Alastair]

Cheers for the feedback.

 

I was asking about the Webasto Marine version - this sounds to be fussier about fuel than the hurricane, but doesn't sound to have the exhaust temperature issue (which would be a safety problem for us - venting onto a pontoon, small children . . . )

The marine webasto is about £1250 - including the controllers etc, just like the hurricane. I've only seen the hurricane at £2k.

[Gary Peacock]

Hi Gary

 

I take it you are impressed with the Hurricane. My dealings with the cab heater types has only been on the repair side, this is something I try and stay away from. I will only look at the ones belonging to friends and even then reluctantly.

  What are the main reasons for your conversion, you are in a better position to judge having installed both types.

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Design and build quality are far better then the competition and the fact that it will run off a broad range of fuels is an obvious bonus. The general specification is far better then all but some of the more expensive units from the likes of Kubola etc.

The fact that DIY servicing and repair are actively encouraged is also very encouraging and rare these days.

 

I like Eberspachers too they are easy to fit and if used correctly perform well, but they do have draw backs. They were never designed to run central heating but actually to pre heat vehicle cooling systems or provide additional cab heat, They will only run happily on DERV not gas oil. You are completely reliant on the Eberspacher dealer support for any repairs or annual service.

 

The only downside might be the Hurricane heater is a quite large unit in narrowboat terms and is more complex to install then a Eberspacher or similar unit.

[Roger Gunkel]

Hi All,

I have just found this site and forum, immediately registrered (5 minutes ago) and have decided to jump in with both feet.

 

I Live aboard a 57ft Wide beam on the River Cam. I purchased the boat new in September 2004 as a sailaway, fitted with an Eberspacher Hydronics 10 driven diesel heating system. The unit has been a nightmare for the last 12 months, with recurring problems and on my own experiences I would not be able to reccommend it as a sensible buy for anyone contemplating domestic use on a continuous basis.

 

The entire installation including 4 radiators, hot water tank and calorifier, control unit etc all up and running cost in the region of £2500. within 2 months of first use, the system packed up and wouldn't fire up. The service agent on first contact immediately suggested a possible problem with the quality of the fuel. We purchase all of our diesel from the most reputable marina in the area as do most people near us. The fuel was sampled and found to be fine. The engineer cleaned out some carbon build up and fired up the unit. It expired once more 3 days before Christmas and the boat suppliers, service company and Eberspacher were all unable to offer any assistance until January 7th. We had no heating of any sort apart from the cooker, over that whole time! Subsequently most parts of the heater unit were replaced, including the ICU, an enormous ammount of carbon was removed and the whole thing was fired up successfully again. It failed again a few days later and Eberspecher themselves sent a specialist who finally got it going again. We noted the reccommendation to have the system fully serviced within 12 months. The boat suppliers and Eberspecher eventually agreed to pay the costs under guarantee.

 

We have continued to use the fuel from the same marina, and followed the minimum burn time guidelines, using the system for water heating only through the Summer a couple of hours a day, with the occasional use of rads on really cool evenings.

 

Over the last few days the system has been very reluctant to start, producing massive clouds of white, blue, black and brown smoke during the start up, frequently not starting at all. Prolonged telephone conversations with suppliers agents and Eberspecher have as yet produced no results. Eberspecher are implying fuel quality problems (surprise). They have also told me that liveaboards should have the system serviced much more frequently, but will give no indication at all of how frequently. They are also saying quite aggressively that if the combustion chamber is carbon full again, then the fuel is at fault, which is not their responsibility. They are also saying that no matter how good the fuel source is, there could be water in our tank, diesel bug in the tank, electrical faults on other boats transferred through the water affectig the CPU etc etc. This is all without seeing the unit and inspite of our checks on all of the above.

 

The servicing cost for my unit is £109 plus labour and travelling which totals £250-£300. As this problem seems to occur after 3-4 months of running, that would cost arround £900 P.A. or sling the entire unit every year and buy a new one for not much more!

 

I find it absolutely incredible that Eberspecher can supply this unit for central heating, which cannot run on the fuel available in the area for which it is marketed. Our boat supplier, the biggest in the UK, is currently testing other systems because of the on going problems and lack of interest from Eberspacher. Meanwhile I am fitting a solid fuel stove next week because my £2500 central heating system is not capable of doing the job for which it was sold.

 

My apologies for using my first posting for a rant, my views are entirely personal, but I am MR ANGRY!!!!!

 

Good luck in your search for a liveaboard heating system............Stick with coal and logs!

 

Roger Gunkel

[Carrie]

Hi Roger

Haven't the slightest useful suggestion to make, but WELCOME!

[Roger Gunkel]

Hi Roger

Haven't the slightest useful suggestion to make, but WELCOME!

 

Hi Carrie,

 

Thanks for the welcome, I'm really not normally Mr Angry, and I'm sure my future posts will be much more positive!

 

Roger

[anhar]

...My apologies for using my first posting for a rant, my views are entirely personal, but I am MR ANGRY!!!!!...

Roger Gunkel

 

Don't hold back your feelings Roger, tell us what you really think about Eberspachers.

 

Weren't they designed originally for truck cabs and hence work properly only on fuel for road vehicles? It has been suggested several times that it is the red diesel that is the cause of the problem.

 

You and a couple other people with similar complaints have succeeded in putting me off them. Trouble is a lot of s/h and new boats have them fitted. I believe Hurricanes are the latest thing which work on anything. Mikuni too claim theirs work on all types of diesel.

 

regards

Steve

[Roger Gunkel]

Don't hold back your feelings Roger, tell us what you really think about Eberspachers.

 

Weren't they designed originally for truck cabs and hence work properly only on fuel for road vehicles? It has been suggested several times that it is the red diesel that is the cause of the problem.

 

You and a couple other people with similar complaints have succeeded in putting me off them. Trouble is a lot of s/h and new boats have them fitted. I believe Hurricanes are the latest thing which work on anything. Mikuni too claim theirs work on all types of diesel.

 

regards

Steve

 

Thanks for that Steve.

 

Yes you are quite right, the Eberspachers were originally and still are used as lorry heaters. They were designed to run on white diesel as I know know having spent my money! However they are quite clearly marketed as boat heating systems, where the only readily available fuel is red diesel. I think it is morally and ethically wrong to market into an area where unsuspecting buyers are going to to find problems, then bleat about unsuitable fuels. Gary mentioned that he runs his on Kerosene, but Eberspacher were not prepared to guarantee to me that the hydronics 10 would run efficiently on that fuel.

 

I do also have a small motorsailer which is fitted with an old Eberspecher and has no problems whatsoever, so my anti Eberspecher feelings are directed at the new model and the lack of supprt or interest from them.

 

Roger

[rayman]

I have said this before, and will now repeat my self, white diesel, red diesel are EXACTLY the same, apart from the dye, for tax reasons, i have been done by Cand E , if you know different please, will someone share this with us all?

[Roger Gunkel]

I have said this before, and will now repeat my self, white diesel, red diesel are EXACTLY the same, apart from the dye, for tax reasons, i have been done by Cand E , if you know different please, will someone share this with us all?

 

Hi Rayman,

 

Perhaps you can convince Eberspacher of that, as they constantly seem to be telling me otherwise. I always thought they were the same, perhaps the heaters choke on the dye; perhaps its yet more BS from Eberspecher.

 

Roger

[Mr Who]

[quote name='rayman' date='Oct 11 2005, 10:39 PM' post='34569']

I have said this before, and will now repeat my self, white diesel, red diesel are EXACTLY the same, apart from the dye, for tax reasons, i have been done by Cand E , if you know different please, will someone share this with us all?

 

Your right theres no diference except, ........I can tell you that any problems at any of the local oil depots with unscrupulous dealers ...and bang into the red goes the crap........why? ....coz it cant be found. (Or less likely to be)

 

Usually its the same in fact it should be dearer as it has the chemical

added as well.

 

It smells different a (bit sweeter) but it`s the same.

 

Some people say it smokes more..........can you imagine the green folk if this were true?

 

If it smokes its usually coz it`s full of crap Ie/ kerosene or anything else thats left over for various reasons and dumped in it.

 

You have got to remember it`s too expensive to chuck away.

 

I work in the Oil industry

Edited October 11, 2005 by Mr Who

[rayman]

I appreciate what you are saying, you work in the industry, im learning, thanks, but my car and van do not suffer from smoking, and at the day, neither do normal tractors around my area smoke, and if that's the case, all advice on this forume about bmc's smoking is a load of sh,t as the advice given they must smoke cos theyre f;cked, not gettin at you, i asked for advice thanks , i also run my vehicles on red. All abuse welcome.