Inverter agro

[Mary 1]

First many thanks to all of you who have given me such helpful advise, I have now paid the other grand, on the promise of the cheapest 'via crocks', Inverter he can supply, So on that note, we will be seeking trading standards help in due course. This man is a bit of a wide boy, and I do appreciate all you wrote Chris, but it is to much for me to do on my own, I am not very good at standing up to folk who try and get the better of me. But that's what we are going to do. Thank you again.

Mary 1

[sociable_hermit]

Don't hand over the cash until the work is done, and ensure it is fit for purpose. Croc clips aren't.

 

If they won't do this properly, walk away and get another boat. Not worth the hassle.

[Mary 1]

Don't hand over the cash until the work is done, and ensure it is fit for purpose. Croc clips aren't.

 

If they won't do this properly, walk away and get another boat. Not worth the hassle.

I can't if you read the other thread-Inverter fob off you will see why

m

[sociable_hermit]

The details stated in the advert are binding. Any changes, or anything found by the surveyor that you weren't aware of, gives grounds for renegotiation. You can ask for your money back and walk away, if it isn't exactly 'as described'. I think they're trying to push you into it, and that in itself is very suspicious.

[blackrose]

I can't if you read the other thread-Inverter fob off you will see why

m

 

If you are not getting what you paid for and you are not satisfied, take the name of the person you are dealing with and then go directly to the top person in the organisation. Don't bother arguing with the underlings. You want to speak to the owner or MD. I think New (Used?) Boat Co will then take your complaint seriously.

 

From the other thread I don't think what you're asking for sounds unreasonable.

[chris w]

The MD is Chris Hills. I did the same as suggested above and bypassed the minions to negotiate directly with him when I bought a new boat from them. He is a reasonable guy and I managed to persuade him to give me three items free whose total value came to £2300. He's a business-guy; he will listen to a well-reasoned business argument.

 

Chris

PS: Do NOT use croc clips on your inverter Mary - you are asking for big trouble.

[Mary 1]

The MD is Chris Hills. I did the same as suggested above and bypassed the minions to negotiate directly with him when I bought a new boat from them. He is a reasonable guy and I managed to persuade him to give me three items free whose total value came to £2300. He's a business-guy; he will listen to a well-reasoned business argument.

 

Chris

PS: Do NOT use croc clips on your inverter Mary - you are asking for big trouble.

I promise I won't use them Chris, I am just going to PX what ever Richard S is putting on there. I thought that this Richard Scouens [not sure I have spelt this right] I am dealing with was the MD, if not, then I would love to know who is, and how I can contact him. I have five canal books since DEC 08 with it advertised with an inverter, including Aprils 'Water Ways World.' You can all see the advert in there adds, Just look for flutterbye. If you look at the photos on the web, you will see why I have fallen in love with her, The fit out is breath taking. The engine a Perkins 42 has only done 500 hours from new.

Mary

[NB Willawaw]

Mary, this makes me bl**dy angry to read. To advertise a boat incorrectly and then bulldoze people is wrong

for so many reasons. I understand why you are choosing the route you are i.e. the path of least resistance, but the more they get away with it, the

more they'll do it to others. The UK inland waterways boating industry has a pretty shoddy reputation as it is.

[david and julie]

I have five canal books since DEC 08 with it advertised with an inverter, including Aprils 'Water Ways World.' You can all see the advert in there adds, Just look for flutterbye. If you look at the photos on the web, you will see why I have fallen in love with her, The fit out is breath taking. The engine a Perkins 42 has only done 500 hours from new.

Mary

I've just had a look in the March edition of WW and this boat is listed as 1992 55ft trad with a private (DIY?) fit out and is just shy of £45K. That sounds an awful lot of money in a buyers market - irrespective of how nice it is - for an average boat.

 

On top of that your putting up with hassle too?

 

 

 

I've just had a look in the March edition of WW and this boat is listed as 1992 55ft trad with a private (DIY?) fit out and is just shy of £45K. That sounds an awful lot of money in a buyers market - irrespective of how nice it is - for an average boat.

 

On top of that your putting up with hassle too?

 

Edited because i've now found the boat and its been reduced in price since the WW add I read.

http://www.theusedboat.co.uk/stock_details.asp?bro_no=341

 

[NB Willawaw]

Look here:

 

Read the small print about accuracy.

 

http://www.theusedboat.co.uk/stock_details.asp?bro_no=341

[sociable_hermit]

It sounds like they're trying to hold you to ransom over this boat because they know you like it so much.

 

Even if it's your dream boat, it should still come at a realistic price. If you're not getting value for money, walk away.

 

There are lots of equally nice boats out there, and some of them even have inverters! For that sort of money you should expect a proper installation, not a quick bodge job.

 

Sorry, I know you probably don't want to hear this, but I think you're being had.

 

Not sure if you use it already, but might be worth comparing this boat with some others on the Apollo Duck website, just to get a feel for the market at the moment.

Edited April 7, 2009 by sociable_hermit

[Mary 1]

Look here:

 

Read the small print about accuracy.

 

http://www.theusedboat.co.uk/stock_details.asp?bro_no=341

 

Oh thank you so much for doing that, so you can now all see why I want this boat so much. Yes I have read the bottom, well what a bout the 6 copies of the add in the caneal mags since dec !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you can not get away with that, after all we travelled 600 mile round trip to see it on the adds alone. M

[Reptile Smile]

I so very much hope this resolves for you. It seems so entirely uncontroversial - they are so clearly in the wrong. I understand your current approach - get the boat, get it sorted, and then perhaps approach Trading Standards, and possibly pursue a claim through the Small Claims Court.

 

The only thing that I wonder is whether you would care to play the PR card..? It might very well be worth explaining that you have seeking advice on the matter on one of the largest canal usergroups, and the NUBC seems to be getting a rather bad reputation because of the their trenchant approach to this.

 

You might further wish to point out (perhaps in an email to the MD with links to both of the current threads on this matter) that nothing would give you greater pleasure to be able to post at the bottom of the threads that the NUBC realised the strength of opinion on the matter, resolved the matter satisfactorily, and everyone went home happy.

 

Just a thought... ;o)

[Mac49]

I'd be interested to know if the disclaimer on their website actually covered them. If so I think it would be far too easy to mis-advertise something and get away with it as long as they used a line of small print (I wouldn't know my 35hp engine from a 42 without the sticker on it for example). I'm just not sure companies can always get themselves out of trouble by using a bit of small print, any legal experts?

Rick

[PaulG]

I'd be interested to know if the disclaimer on their website actually covered them. If so I think it would be far too easy to mis-advertise something and get away with it as long as they used a line of small print (I wouldn't know my 35hp engine from a 42 without the sticker on it for example). I'm just not sure companies can always get themselves out of trouble by using a bit of small print, any legal experts?

Rick

 

I don't think that this disclaimer would count for squat.

 

The Trade Descriptions Act has no provisions for disclaimers that would permit a trader to circumvent his legal obligation to accurately describe goods that he is selling.

 

Although there is no statutory basis for disclaimers, I understand that, in some circumstances, the courts have accepted traders' disclaimers where the information was genuinely unavailable to them, for example, when a trader genuinely does not know (and has no way of knowing) whether the mileage of a car is correct or not. Such disclaimers must be must be "as bold, precise and compelling as the original description and effectively brought to the attention of a potential buyer" - small print will not do!

 

A trader can use the defence that the inaccuracy was due to a mistake, or to reliance on information supplied to him, or the act or default of another person, an accident or some other cause beyond the traders control.

 

However, the trader must be able to show that he took all reasonable precautions and exercised all due diligence to avoid an incorrect description by himself or any person under his control. In other words, he can't just take the present owner's word for the description of the boat, has has an obligation to check that it is correct. "Believed to be correct" is not good enough!

 

Basically, their disclaimer seems to read "We can't be arsed to check whether this advert is right or not. As a prospective customer, you'll have to pay a surveyor a big fat fee to find out."

 

Personally, I wouldn't buy a boat from a company that appeared to be so sloppy and unprofessional.

[Mary 1]

I don't think that this disclaimer would count for squat.

 

The Trade Descriptions Act has no provisions for disclaimers that would permit a trader to circumvent his legal obligation to accurately describe goods that he is selling.

 

Although there is no statutory basis for disclaimers, I understand that, in some circumstances, the courts have accepted traders' disclaimers where the information was genuinely unavailable to them, for example, when a trader genuinely does not know (and has no way of knowing) whether the mileage of a car is correct or not. Such disclaimers must be must be "as bold, precise and compelling as the original description and effectively brought to the attention of a potential buyer" - small print will not do!

 

A trader can use the defence that the inaccuracy was due to a mistake, or to reliance on information supplied to him, or the act or default of another person, an accident or some other cause beyond the traders control.

 

However, the trader must be able to show that he took all reasonable precautions and exercised all due diligence to avoid an incorrect description by himself or any person under his control. In other words, he can't just take the present owner's word for the description of the boat, has has an obligation to check that it is correct. "Believed to be correct" is not good enough!

 

Basically, their disclaimer seems to read "We can't be arsed to check whether this advert is right or not. As a prospective customer, you'll have to pay a surveyor a big fat fee to find out."

 

Personally, I wouldn't buy a boat from a company that appeared to be so sloppy and unprofessional.

Oh well I am the twit big time. I have also just noticed on the sale adds it is listed as a 1992, in the books and on the sales leaflets.

Now just gone to insure this vessel. I see on the sales agreement it is sold as a 1991. och

So no inverter and a year older then specified. Is there anyway you can really get to the bottom of this age, would the water licence be able to do it I wonder. I do hope some one will know who and how I can get in touch with the MD for the UBC at Blisworth. As I have been fair, paid in full now. What can happen next !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mary 1

ps, I still love the boat, and I hope this will be sorted in due course

[PaddingtonBear]

Surely Chris W has already told you - his name is apparently Chris Hills, why don't you email him, they are taking the p**s big time.

[RLWP]

Surely Chris W has already told you - his name is apparently Chris Hills, why don't you email him, they are taking the p**s big time.

 

And when you do email him, point out that the way his company treats it's customers is being discussed on a widely used internet forum.

 

Richard

[Mac49]

I might be tempted to send a letter (rec. delivery?) to Chris Hills, sometimes companies have a habit of 'not receiving' emails when it's not in their interest. As for the age of the boat, as an owner fit-out it may have being stood on dry land whilst the work was being carried out and so only licensed when put in the water like mine was, so BW may not be able to help (although I seem to remember having to tell them a year of manufacture). Can you speak to the previous owner?

Rick

[PaulG]

Oh well I am the twit big time. I have also just noticed on the sale adds it is listed as a 1992, in the books and on the sales leaflets.

Now just gone to insure this vessel. I see on the sales agreement it is sold as a 1991. och

So no inverter and a year older then specified. Is there anyway you can really get to the bottom of this age, would the water licence be able to do it I wonder. I do hope some one will know who and how I can get in touch with the MD for the UBC at Blisworth. As I have been fair, paid in full now. What can happen next !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mary 1

ps, I still love the boat, and I hope this will be sorted in due course

 

Mary, I do hope that it all gets sorted out and I hope that eventually you're very happy with your boat.

 

However, I would write to the Managing Director of the brokerage A.S.A.P., registered post and signed for. You don't need to know his name. Keep a copy of the letter. Mention the Trade Descriptions Act. State that you are not satisfied with your purchase, and why, and that you have only paid for it in in full with great reluctance and in the face of intimidation from his staff. Otherwise the fact that you have paid the rest of your money could be interpreted as an indication that you are now satisfied with your purchase.

 

I would inform him that he has a short time (7 days?) to attempt to resolve the dispute amicably before you involve Trading Standards. If you do need to involve them, I have found them very helpful in the past.

 

Good luck, and don't let them get away with it!

 

P.S. If you saw the boat advertised on the internet, then print off a copy of the page quickly - 'net adverts have a habit of disappearing quickly or being edited when there's a problem!

Edited April 8, 2009 by PaulG