Waterways Museums and Archives in real danger?

[Richard Fairhurst]

I've always wondered whether divesting their museums (Gloucester/Stoke Bruerne) was a good move on BW's part.

 

A few months after they did that, the Government announced free entry to the national Government-owned museums - securing their future though arguably putting many others at risk. These included the British Museum, the Science Museum, the National Railway Museum, the Imperial War Museum and so on.

 

But, of course, the waterway museums were no longer Government-owned. D'oh.

[Tim Lewis]

I've always wondered whether divesting their museums (Gloucester/Stoke Bruerne) was a good move on BW's part.

 

A few months after they did that, the Government announced free entry to the national Government-owned museums - securing their future though arguably putting many others at risk. These included the British Museum, the Science Museum, the National Railway Museum, the Imperial War Museum and so on.

 

But, of course, the waterway museums were no longer Government-owned. D'oh.

 

It does seem terribly unfair that the National Waterways Museums are not Government funded, I visited the Slate museum in LLanberis a few years ago which carries national museum status and as such is free!

 

Tim

[sueb]

That said, it was a damn sight more interesting than a cafe, and I agree that it should never have been removed.

 

They claim that exhibit can still be seen elswhere in SB by "prior arrangement".

 

 

Unfortunately if it hadn't been for the cafe the Museum at SB would have closed 18 months ago for the same reason that museums all over the country and not just Gloucester are closing.

 

Sunny Valley IS available. Provided the staff are not swamped by visitors in the ONLY cafe in SB they will open up for you to see it. Most weekends during the summer at least you will be made very welcome.

Has the cafe in the 'Boat' closed as well now? I know the Chapel closed down.

Roger Hanbury told me that the Trust is completely separate from BW. I queried the fact at a PWG meeting as I knew they were using a BW cheque book.

Can you believe a word they say?

Sue

[Phil Speight]

Having spoken with Chris Coburn again this morning it would appear that TWT is without doubt part of BW and funded by BW, however BW havent paid TWT what they promised and that is part of the problem overall.

I cannot see why the archive should move, even if it did why not rent a small unit with one paid member of staff and a few volunteers. The footfall through the doors of the museums are in the majority not wishing to view the archive. The boats should be sold off / leased to anyone capable of looking after and restoring them, this could be done with conditions regarding condition, display and where the boats should be kept. On look at the turn out of craft at the Braunston show proves this would be a workable option.

I don`t think they are actually allowed to sell them - but leasing is a real possibility. It was first suggested about 18 years ago and has cropped up many times since. Many of the boats would be unrealistic propositions for genuinely good restoration by anyone without major funding. We`d just finish up with even more ex-working narrow boats - of which there are no shortage in private hands already. Not that it would be a bad thing on general principle - but the rarest and therefore perhaps most important exhibits, the wooden wide boats, would probably still either be lost or badly , if enthusiastically , "restored". Narrow boats are only a part of the supposed national collection, the prettiest and most usable part no doubt - but it`s all the rest I`m worried about.

[tripitaka]

Waterways Museums and Archives in real danger?

 

The following message appeared on canalScape-BCN tonight, I have checked the issue of a move and archive move with a TWT trustee, all seems true. what is worrying is the reporting of possible disposal and scapping of exhibits, this calls for some real concerns to be voiced. the post is as follows:

 

"I heard recently "straight from the horses mouth" as it were, but don't ask

me which one.

The National Archives at Gloucester are to close within

18 months, being relocated to Ellesmere Port, the question is where,

will they still be available for inspection and, most importantly, will

there be anyone capable of answering our questions.

 

Also to be closed, The Gloucester Waterways Museum, this is to be

handed over to Gloucester Council, who may keep it as a waterways

museum. Also to be downgraded is Stoke Bruerne, to a local canal museum.

 

Finally, what happened to the exhibits removed from Gloucester?

Answer, the small ones went back into store, anything heavy went for

SCRAP, including a GJC Rivet Forge, even the Bantam Tug "Walsall", was

to be scrapped, but was saved by the staff and is now in store. Some

items jumped back out of the skips and have been privately saved.

Also of interest is that there is no longer any curatorial staff at

Gloucester.

 

Can anything be done about this?"

Is there no way The Black Country Museum can be asked to take some of the archive and display materials? The section of museum dealing with the canals is somewhat under utilised and could bebefit from a revamp. Oh yes, if a mooring was provided I would be happy to sit at BCM and help revamp stuff!

[Derek R.]

I wonder if part of the problem - that of attracting money - isn't something to do with the canal being available to walk along and see boats for free just about everywhere, and that those who are interested in the detailed histories of craft, carriers and customs are already immersed up to their necks with private collections and maintenance, in short - waterways anoraks. Railway museums house big shiny steel behemoths that attract, the various outings they take onto rails are highly patronised by young and old through their rarity, sounds and smells. Whereas boats are everywhere, yet how many other than the knowledgeable know the difference between something historic, a liveaboard 'Pot' farm, and a bow thrusted floating jacuzzi? Moreover, everyone has memories of USING the railways on an everyday basis - travelling to work, and on holidays - for many they were part of our formative years, many knew someone who worked 'On the Railway'. The boats and the people of the boats were a segregated community and lifestyle, as were the docks and dock life and I'll wager more people knew about being 'On the Stones' than on the boats.

 

I wonder if it doesn't all boil down to knowledge and nostalgia. 'Archives - what archives?'

[Tim Lewis]

Having spoken with Chris Coburn again this morning it would appear that TWT is without doubt part of BW and funded by BW, however BW havent paid TWT what they promised and that is part of the problem overall.

I cannot see why the archive should move, even if it did why not rent a small unit with one paid member of staff and a few volunteers. The footfall through the doors of the museums are in the majority not wishing to view the archive. The boats should be sold off / leased to anyone capable of looking after and restoring them, this could be done with conditions regarding condition, display and where the boats should be kept. On look at the turn out of craft at the Braunston show proves this would be a workable option.

 

I see in the latest BW boaters newsletter that two of the BW Heritage fleet, Atlas & Malus have been leased to the BCNS & Coombeswood canal trust repectively, both to be based at Hawne basin, details here

 

Tim

 

Not quite, the exhibit only ever was a mock up of a back cabin complete with roses,castles, brasses and 2 dummy boat people, not a full boat.

 

That said, it was a damn sight more interesting than a cafe, and I agree that it should never have been removed.

 

They claim that exhibit can still be seen elswhere in SB by "prior arrangement".

 

David

 

Visited recently and was dissappointed to see that the shop has gone from being probably what was the best Waterways book shop to one just selling tat!

 

Tim

Edited December 18, 2008 by Tim Lewis

[down the north]

Re the pruning of museum artifacts ,

specifically it does make those of us with historic artifacts shy away from donations to national organisations; the railway collectors have been well aware of this over the years, and have religiously kept items that the NRM would dearly like well away from them. The reserve collection can only display so much so inevitably someones rare and treasured donation ends up in a store and out of sight.

So, regrettably, a staffs and worcs cast sign dredged up by G.Wain from a wharfe a few years ago, the NSR inspectors reports on the T&M canal, the NSR day boat registration certificates, and the minutes and articles of association of Blueline and Lady line, whilst I wish these to be available to see by those interested, these will not currently be heading for Ellesmere Port;its just to risky letting this stuff go, when it's likely to be deemed 'not relevant' in a few years, by un knowledgeable curators assistants,

martin

[Derek R.]

Is there no way The Black Country Museum can be asked to take some of the archive and display materials? The section of museum dealing with the canals is somewhat under utilised and could benefit from a revamp. Oh yes, if a mooring was provided I would be happy to sit at BCM and help revamp stuff!

 

I think you would soon have an entire community of people willing to live a retro lifestyle at the BCM, but cash rears its ugly head. Outside of that, there are quite a few folk living fifties and even forties lifestyles - including driving period cars, furnishing the house, as well as make up and clothing - quite a few in their twenties too.

 

Just off for a perm in the Anglia . . .

 

Ultimately it will be the private individual who becomes guardians of heritage. Multi-millionaires might be sought out for larger facilities, for who would trust government!

[Laurence Hogg]

Trust the WaterwaysTrust? Is anyone checking bonus's and expences?

Sue

 

Rodney Pitt posted the following on CanalScape-BCN this morning:

 

The Waterways Trust and Its Museums - The Official View!

 

Following the earlier email about the situaiton and future of teh canal museums, I sent an email to Roger Hanbury, asking him for clarification. The following is his reply:-

 

The issues are complex; I hope the following gives you a more complete picture and corrects a number of inaccuracies.

 

 

 

The Waterways Trust exists to enrich people’s lives through waterways. In the case of the National Waterways Museum, we have an absolute commitment to realising the best possible future for the three museum sites. In recent years we had been moving towards a policy of establishing Ellesmere Port as the hub site - concentrating curatorial, marketing and learning services from this site. We have continued to review how best to maintain and support the sites in the light of some very real financial pressures.

 

 

 

There are particular issues at Gloucester due to the re-development going on around the site. Visitor numbers have reduced dramatically as there are few visitors to the Docks and this has undermined the financial strength of the site. Nonetheless over the last 12 months we have been able to complete a refresh of the museum with funding provided by British Waterways, Gloucester Heritage Urban Regeneration Company and the Friends of the Museum. This has strengthened the offer for visitors and broadened its appeal but continuing development in the Docks has precluded a recovery in visitor numbers.

 

 

 

The Trust has taken a major financial loss in the current year and looking ahead we do not have the resources to continue as we are. Therefore we are actively working with partners in Gloucester to realise a museum that is in touch with, and relevant to, its local community. These discussions include the Friends of the Museum, who have sustained their support for the museum since the beginning, and we have approached the City Council. The discussions continue and are not finalised so the outcome cannot be predicted; we know there is a great deal of local support for the museum to be retained and to serve as the main point of reference for visitors to the Docks and this provides grounds for optimism.

 

 

 

The wider pressures on the National Waterways Museum prompted a reorganisation completed this autumn. This has centred the professional support in the museums at Ellesmere Port which is our main site. Our limited curatorial resources will therefore be located at Ellesmere Port and oversee our work at Gloucester and Stoke Bruerne. At both sites we are looking to enhance the support we have with expertise proved by suitably experienced volunteers and other partners. This is a model that is used by other museums in the independent sector and is already in place at Stoke Bruerne. We are not expecting to make any further changes at Stoke Bruerne but we will welcome and encourage local initiatives to realise a better museum and community resource.

 

 

 

In refreshing the displays at Gloucester Docks a number of items on display have changed but many have been retained. This is part of the normal changes you would expect in the life of a museum. All items removed from display have been dealt with properly: accessioned items (which are part of the Designated Collection) have been retained in our stores, and a small number of disposals have been dealt with in line with our policy which is approved by MLA. The Tug Walsall has been retained in our store; any future disposal would be compliant with our policy. A number of items from the forge which were not accessioned have gone to Tommy Neilson’s boat yard elsewhere in the Docks. The whole process has been carefully managed and any suggestion that we have dealt with accessioned objects improperly is unfounded.

 

 

 

Turning to the archive, it has long been recognised that the Gloucester based archive is not adequately housed, it was placed in the roof of Llanthony Warehouse circa 1988 as a temporary solution and has subsequently grown. As you will know the records have been substantially catalogued and the catalogue is available online at www.virtualwaterways.co.uk However physical access for visitors and disaster recovery is inadequate, we do not have the space for further expansion and there are no environmental controls in a space that is prone to wide temperature fluctuations. Our current thinking is that it should be co-located with the museum at Ellesmere Port where we have potential space in buildings that are accessible, thermally stable with scope for expansion in the years ahead. Change is therefore inevitable but the detail is not yet clear. Any move will be dependent on securing funding but any new facility will provide better security for the archive, provide public access and research facilities supported by suitable expertise.

 

 

 

There is currently no time-scale set for the relocation of the Gloucester archives to Ellesmere Port, but we will actively look to establish the national waterways archive as an integral and leading part of re-vitalising and re-energising this museum.

 

 

 

We are working through very challenging times and actively pursuing a policy of transforming the National Waterways Museum that can establish the relevance of 2000+ miles of world class waterways heritage to modern audiences. Both Stuart Gillis (TWT’s Director of the National Waterways Museum) and I are more than happy to listen to ideas and discuss the way we are working with partners and moving forward.

 

 

I feel that while this clarifies some issues about actions to date, it still leaves a great deal of unanswered questions. What do other think?

 

 

Rodney Pitt

 

Canal and Industrial Historian