portable generator charging

[journeyperson]

Dear forum,

 

I do declare that I am ignorant about, and confused by electrics.

 

My boat has a simple 12v supply; 1 x starter battery and 2 x 110 ah leisure batteries connected in parallel.

 

I want to be able to charge the batteries using a generator when I am going to be static somewhere for a day or two or three.

 

Can I connect the charger leads to any of the three batteries to charge them all?

 

I need to earth the generator. Must this be to an earth spike in the canal/river bank or can I earth to the boat and if so where/how?

 

I've read all the threads I can find about generators and charging but it all gets too technical for me, not to mention acrimonious. I don't want to start another war but can anybody give me the answers by way of an idiots guide?

 

Yours in trepidation,

 

JP

[denboy]

what type of generator is it and are you planing to charge from the 12 v socket ?on generator

I ask because i think most of the 12v outputs on the smallish generators are not up to much probably best way is to get a decent baty charger and run that from the generator

 

Now let the battle commence

[journeyperson]

what type of generator is it and are you planing to charge from the 12 v socket ?on generator

 

It's a Wolf 1050 generator which does have an 8amp 12v charging facility, but I know the general view is that something like a 40amp charger is desirable. I'll probably try the built-in charger but if it's u/s I'll buy a separate charger. I have also taken on board that I would be better with a honda, but I'll see how it goes.

[johnjo]

Standard battery charger will be OK for starter battery, but I think you need something called a four stage charger for your leisure batts, perhaps someone else knows if this is correct?

Edited November 30, 2008 by johnjo

[chris w]

Dear forum,

 

I do declare that I am ignorant about, and confused by electrics.

 

My boat has a simple 12v supply; 1 x starter battery and 2 x 110 ah leisure batteries connected in parallel.

 

I want to be able to charge the batteries using a generator when I am going to be static somewhere for a day or two or three.

 

Can I connect the charger leads to any of the three batteries to charge them all?

 

I need to earth the generator. Must this be to an earth spike in the canal/river bank or can I earth to the boat and if so where/how?

 

I've read all the threads I can find about generators and charging but it all gets too technical for me, not to mention acrimonious. I don't want to start another war but can anybody give me the answers by way of an idiots guide?

 

Yours in trepidation,

 

JP

 

1. Do NOT ever use the 12v 8A socket unless you have a few weeks to charge your batteries.

 

2. Get a good 30A-40 amp multistage charger and expect to pay around £200+

 

3. You need to connect the generator's earth point to the hull earth point AND connect the neutral output socket pin on the generator to the generator's earth pin too. If you fail to do both of these things, your RCD safety trip will not function at all. You do have an RCD (earth fault trip) on-board don't you?

 

4. Some generators cannot have the earth and neutral connected for techncal reasons. You MUST check that the generator you buy can have this mod done, or else the generator is NOT suitable for use on a boat due to safety reasons. A generator's mains output will kill you just as easily as your house mains can do.

 

Chris

Edited November 30, 2008 by chris w

[ditchcrawler]

1. Do NOT ever use the 12v 8A socket unless you have a few weeks to charge your batteries.

 

2. Get a good 30A-40 amp multistage charger and expect to pay around £200+

 

3. You need to connect the generator's earth point to the hull earth point AND connect the neutral output socket pin on the generator to the generator's earth pin too. If you fail to do both of these things, your RCD safety trip will not function at all. You do have an RCD (earth fault trip) on-board don't you?

 

4. Some generators cannot have the earth and neutral connected for techncal reasons. You MUST check that the generator you buy can have this mod done, or else the generator is NOT suitable for use on a boat due to safety reasons. A generator's mains output will kill you just as easily as your house mains can do.

 

Chris

I doubt he has a RCD as I don't think he has 240 volts, if he did he probably wouldn't be buying a genny to charge his batteries.

[chris w]

I doubt he has a RCD as I don't think he has 240 volts, if he did he probably wouldn't be buying a genny to charge his batteries.

He may have an inverter?

[Gibbo]

1. Do NOT ever use the 12v 8A socket unless you have a few weeks to charge your batteries.

 

2. Get a good 30A-40 amp multistage charger and expect to pay around £200+

 

3. You need to connect the generator's earth point to the hull earth point AND connect the neutral output socket pin on the generator to the generator's earth pin too. If you fail to do both of these things, your RCD safety trip will not function at all. You do have an RCD (earth fault trip) on-board don't you?

 

4. Some generators cannot have the earth and neutral connected for techncal reasons. You MUST check that the generator you buy can have this mod done, or else the generator is NOT suitable for use on a boat due to safety reasons. A generator's mains output will kill you just as easily as your house mains can do.

 

Chris

 

What he said except...............

 

"You MUST check that the generator you buy can have this mod done, or else the generator is NOT suitable for use on a boat due to safety reasons"

 

If you can't bond neutral and earth it's because it's a centre tapped output in which case an RCD will still work.

 

Gibbo

[journeyperson]

You do have an RCD (earth fault trip) on-board don't you?

 

I only have a 12v supply. Can this kill me without RCD, I mean, as things are at the moment, where would an RCD fit in? The electrics on this boat are as they were when they were put in in 1995. There is a labelled circuit board with an on/off switch and what appears to be a reset button for each circuit, though so far (10 months) nothing has ever tripped.

 

"You MUST check that the generator you buy can have this mod done, or else the generator is NOT suitable for use on a boat due to safety reasons"

 

well, it says on the box it is suitable for boats but the only earthing instruction is about taking 12mm copper wire from the generator earthing point to an earthing rod of copper or brass, driven into the ground!

[ditchcrawler]

Dear forum,

 

I do declare that I am ignorant about, and confused by electrics.

 

My boat has a simple 12v supply; 1 x starter battery and 2 x 110 ah leisure batteries connected in parallel.

 

I want to be able to charge the batteries using a generator when I am going to be static somewhere for a day or two or three.

 

Can I connect the charger leads to any of the three batteries to charge them all?

 

I need to earth the generator. Must this be to an earth spike in the canal/river bank or can I earth to the boat and if so where/how?

 

I've read all the threads I can find about generators and charging but it all gets too technical for me, not to mention acrimonious. I don't want to start another war but can anybody give me the answers by way of an idiots guide?

 

Yours in trepidation,

 

JP

If its only for a few days you "shouldn't" need to charge the starter battery, just the two domestics

[journeyperson]

If its only for a few days you "shouldn't" need to charge the starter battery, just the two domestics

 

Yes, that's what I was expecting to do. So can I just connect a charger to one of the two domestic batteries leaving them connected to everything else?

 

I'm beginning to think that what I'll have to do is run the genny on the bank/towpath, earthed, with an extension lead to a good quality 20 -40 amp charger, connected to the batteries. How does that sound?

[smileypete]

Yes, that's what I was expecting to do. So can I just connect a charger to one of the two domestic batteries leaving them connected to everything else?

 

I'm beginning to think that what I'll have to do is run the genny on the bank/towpath, earthed, with an extension lead to a good quality 20 -40 amp charger, connected to the batteries. How does that sound?

 

If you're on a budget this charger might do:

 

http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/s...p;Submit=GO+%3E

 

cheers,

Pete.

Edited November 30, 2008 by smileypete

[journeyperson]

If you're on a budget this charger might do:

 

http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/s...p;Submit=GO+%3E

 

Thanks - that looks worth investigating.

[chris w]

Yes, that's what I was expecting to do. So can I just connect a charger to one of the two domestic batteries leaving them connected to everything else?

 

I'm beginning to think that what I'll have to do is run the genny on the bank/towpath, earthed, with an extension lead to a good quality 20 -40 amp charger, connected to the batteries. How does that sound?

The genny needs to be earthed to the boat not to the bank.

 

Chris

 

Thanks - that looks worth investigating.

IMHO, this is a mickey-mouse charger compared to a proper multisatge charger.

 

Chris

[journeyperson]

The genny needs to be earthed to the boat not to the bank.

 

Chris

 

Ok, thanks.

[Pretty Funked Up]

I have a RING SmartCharger, nothing but praise for it, but then again i havent had the luxury of trying those £200+ jobs.

 

It has and 8 stage charging cycle and the option to manually force a reconditioning cycle.

I paid £39 +delivery for the 16amp version (but they have bigger ones)

[chris w]

I have a RING SmartCharger, nothing but praise for it, but then again i havent had the luxury of trying those £200+ jobs.

 

It has and 8 stage charging cycle and the option to manually force a reconditioning cycle.

I paid £39 +delivery for the 16amp version (but they have bigger ones)

Questions:

 

1. What are the 8 stages?

 

2. Can the voltage be varied to suit wet-cells, sealed cells and AGM type batteries, as these are different voltages?

 

3. Can it be used in power-pack mode to run the boat's 12v systems when plugged into shore power, independent of the batteries?

 

4. Does it have battery temperature monitoring?

 

5. Can it charge different banks of batteries simultaneously and independently, ie: start & domestic banks?

 

6. Can you select the output current, depending on the shore power's capabilty - some marinas will not supply 16A?

 

7. Does it have the option of a remote control panel that can be operated from the cockpit or inside the boat if desired?

 

These are the kind of things one gets with the £200+ jobbie

 

Chris

 

PS: edited to add, that on checking the web, the answer to 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, & 7 is "no". Also 16A is the largest they have on their site, which is really far too small for a typical narrowboat. You want around 30-40A minimum ideally. I can't find any reference to 8 stages!!

Edited December 1, 2008 by chris w

[Pretty Funked Up]

Dont have the manual handy but the stages include:

initial charge, bulk charge, condition test, desulphation, absorbtion, couple more then finally ending on a float charge.

 

dreams of having the £200+ jobbie

 

Which one do you recommend?

(sounds more like a battery management system to me - not a charger)

Edited December 1, 2008 by Pretty Funked Up

[chris w]

Which one do you recommend?

Well, whoever you ask, they will doubtless recommend the one they have, unless it's been a disaster.

 

I have a 40A Sterling digital multistage charger with remote control panel which set me back £300 for the charger and another £100 for the remote control panel. Although, the charger will charge both my domestic and start batteries simultaneously, I believe in redundant systems, so I also have a Sterling 20A multistage charger dedicated to the start battery, while the 40A does the domestics.

 

Here's the 40A version clicky

 

Chris

[Pretty Funked Up]

I sooooooooo want one of those

 

 

very nice!

[journeyperson]

I have a RING SmartCharger, nothing but praise for it, but then again i havent had the luxury of trying those £200+ jobs.

 

Does it recharge your boat batteries satisfactorily? If it does then it'll do for me

[FadeToScarlet]

Yes, that's what I was expecting to do. So can I just connect a charger to one of the two domestic batteries leaving them connected to everything else

 

When you're charging a bank of batteries, even if they are wired in parallel, you need to put the current in and out at opposite ends of the bank, so that an equal amount flows through all the batteries. I.e. you can't just put both leads onto one battery, because the other will not receive a 100% charge because of the resistance of the leads and other such technical stuff that other people on the forum know far more about than I do. You'd need to put the positive lead on one battery and the negative on the other.

 

Basically, you can't eplete your battery bank more than 50% before the batteries get damaged- so you've got a total of 110 Amp hours available to you. In terms of recharging, you have to put one and a half amps in for every one you take out. Using the 8A charger on the generator will, as people have said, take weeks to give you a proper recharge.

 

Black and Decker do some good multistage chargers that are, nevertheless, budget. http://www.blackanddecker.co.uk/automotive.../catno/BDV1085/ See a Froogle search here.

 

The only criticism I'd make is that the fan is quite noisy when in use.

Edited December 1, 2008 by FadeToScarlet

[chris w]

Does it recharge your boat batteries satisfactorily? If it does then it'll do for me

How will you or the other poster know whether your batteries are being charged "satisfactorily". How will you be judging this? You can't tell just because a lamp lights up on the charger.

 

Chris

[smileypete]

I have a 40A Sterling digital multistage charger with remote control panel which set me back £300 for the charger and another £100 for the remote control panel. Although, the charger will charge both my domestic and start batteries simultaneously, I believe in redundant systems, so I also have a Sterling 20A multistage charger dedicated to the start battery, while the 40A does the domestics.

What's the maximum absorption charge time on your £300 charger? 4 hours I believe?

 

Sounds like you have an expensive mickey mouse charger!!!

 

cheers,

Pete.

Edited December 1, 2008 by smileypete

[chris w]

What's the maximum absorption charge time on your £300 charger? 4 hours I believe?

 

Sounds like you have an expensive mickey mouse charger!!! :lol:

 

cheers,

Pete.

Wel you are badly informed then.

 

The maximum is determined in software not by switches - I have the digital version. Sometimes the absorption time is over 7 hours when the batteries are down 100AH.

 

Budget chargers are just that............... chargers for poor people.

Edited December 1, 2008 by chris w