JG Speedfit / Hep2O / Something Else ?

[alan_fincher]

OK, to some extent discussed several times before.

 

I want to add a new hot water system, which means a lot of new pipes and fittings.

 

Currently I have all Hep20, mostly with older fittings, but a few of the latest type.

 

I'm completely happy with plastic plumbing, so not interested in being told I should do it in copper or in braided hose, (thanks!).

 

Most people seem to prefer Speedfit to Hep2O, but I can't actually see any basis for this other than....

 

1) It's easier to take apart, if you must.

2) It can work out cheaper.

 

I'm not really worried about taking it apart, but I never mind saving a few pennies if I can!

 

I'm torn between Speedfit to save a few quid, and Hep2O to keep the boat standard, and stick with a system where any spares are a chandlery rather than a mail order item.

 

Anything I've missed, before deciding, please ?

 

A couple of ancillary questions...

 

How does "barrier pipe" differ from "standard" ?

The Surecal calorifier has tails on of presumably 15mm, with a ring cut into them. Will both these plumbing system snap onto those tails equally well ?

 

Many thanks

 

Alan

[David Schweizer]

Personally I would stick with Hep20. All this talk one hears about it being difficult to take a part is nonsense. The fact that you have to unscrew the locknut on the fittings before taking them apart is it's strength not it's weakness. Any fitting that will come apart merely by pushing, can come apart accidentally, which is a good enough reason for me to avoid it.

Edited November 19, 2008 by David Schweizer

[alan_fincher]

Any fitting that will come apart merely by pushing, can come apart accidentally, which is a good enough reason for me to avoid it.

 

Ah, is than an "attribute" of Speedfit ? I must admit I've not had my hand on a sample to know how it works.

 

Having spent a while on the net tonight, I think the extra cost of sticking with Hep2O isn't going to be much over a tenner.

 

So I think I'll stick with the system I know.

 

I can't believe the price differences between various suppliers. BES is massively less than somewhere like Plumb Centre, (who also have a particularly crap online ordering), so I'll probably use them. Screwfix would have been a good option for Speedfit, but they don't do Hep2O.

 

Thanks for your input, David.

 

Alan

[wonderdust]

The speed fit also has a lock ring and when turned locks solidly, the advantage is that you can take it apart without having to replace or cut the bite ring.

 

I think the barrier pipe does not allow air through so is better for central heating systems where air can become a problem.

 

I would of thought the surcal will take either fitting as well as compression fittings.

 

If you have a lot to do it is well worth investing in a proper pair of cutters, not a hacksaw, if not secateurs work well!

Edited November 19, 2008 by wonderdust

[denboy]

the new type speed fit defiantly locks tight on the locking nut , and you don`t cut your finger to ribbons if you do need to take it apart

[alan_fincher]

The speed fit also has a lock ring and when turned locks solidly, the advantage is that you can take it apart without having to replace or cut the bite ring.

 

I think the barrier pipe does not allow air through so is better for central heating systems where air can become a problem.

 

I would of thought the surcal will take either fitting as well as compression fittings.

O.K., many thanks.

 

Obviously (as I'm sure you know), you can break any Hep2O joint easily enough, and reconnect.

 

The only time you would need to remove the bite ring is if you are making plumbing changes, and need to get the rest of the parts off the pipe. I don't envisage needing to change what I'm doing, (famous last words!), so hopefully this will be a non issue.

 

(Last time I tried you could still buy the rings for old style fittings, (which most of mine currently are).

 

Thanks, once more,

 

Alan

[chris w]

I'm a big Speed-Fit fan too. The inability to be able to remove the bite ring on Hep2O is a pain in the nuts.

 

Chris

[alan_fincher]

I'm a big Speed-Fit fan too. The inability to be able to remove the bite ring on Hep2O is a pain in the nuts.

 

Chris

Ah well,

 

The Hep2O order has gone off to BES now

 

I'll let you know how many rings I end up having to remove, (other than on existing, which is unavoidable anyway....)

[Big COL]

Ah well,

 

The Hep2O order has gone off to BES now

 

I'll let you know how many rings I end up having to remove, (other than on existing, which is unavoidable anyway....)

 

 

Alan

Hep2o fittings can be removed without cutting off the gripper, you can buy a fitting removal tool which allows you to remove the fittings and then reuse them.

Never used one myself as I have always used Polyplumb Fittings, which you do have to cut the gripping ring off to remove any fittings. The advantage with polyplumb is you can buy the gripper rings, O rings, plastic washers, separately. Personal experience, not the easiest to use but the best for not having leaks .

[wonderdust]

Alan

Hep2o fittings can be removed without cutting off the gripper, you can buy a fitting removal tool which allows you to remove the fittings and then reuse them.

Never used one myself as I have always used Polyplumb Fittings, which you do have to cut the gripping ring off to remove any fittings. The advantage with polyplumb is you can buy the gripper rings, O rings, plastic washers, separately. Personal experience, not the easiest to use but the best for not having leaks .

 

Does the removal tool take of the old metal grab rings or just the new type?

[Big COL]

Does the removal tool take of the old metal grab rings or just the new type?

 

Wonderdust

 

The removal tool works with Hep20 fittings with the green insert. I was not aware that Hep20 had fittings with a metal grab ring, Polyplumb fittings have a metal grab ring, thats all I have ever used.

[wonderdust]

Wonderdust

 

The removal tool works with Hep20 fittings with the green insert. I was not aware that Hep20 had fittings with a metal grab ring, Polyplumb fittings have a metal grab ring, thats all I have ever used.

 

The earlier version of the Hep has a metal ring, the same as the polyplumb.

[Big COL]

The earlier version of the Hep has a metal ring, the same as the polyplumb.

 

Wonderdust

 

Didn't know that. The university of life, you never stop learning

[NBMike]

I personally think plastic fittings look big and ugly. I use Tectite fittings (not Tectite Sprint which are NOT removable) in brass which are easily removable with the correct tool or not so easily without. They can be used with any plastic pipes or copper.

[wonderdust]

I personally think plastic fittings look big and ugly. I use Tectite fittings (not Tectite Sprint which are NOT removable) in brass which are easily removable with the correct tool or not so easily without. They can be used with any plastic pipes or copper.

 

Agreed they are good, better looking and smaller especially when they can be seen.

[chris w]

Personal experience, not the easiest to use but the best for not having leaks .

I have a mixture of Hep2O (used by boat builder) and Speedfit (additional work by me). I have never had the slightest leak from either system. It's much better than copper.

 

All of the competing plastic systems work in exactly the same way, viz: the end of the pipe to be joined is pressed up against a rubber O ring inside the fitting to form a seal. The pipe is held against the O ring, and prevented from moving backwards away from the O ring, by the forward pointing teeth of the grip ring.

 

A friend of mine refitted his bathroom with the stuff and hadn't pushed the pipe into the fitting far enough (about an inch). He turned on the water and whoosh, water everywhere. He was swearing at the stuff until I went click, click, click and pushed all the pipes into their fittings correctly.

 

Apart from the ease of fitting, the big advantage over copper in general and even copper push-fit specifically is the bend radius of the pipe, requiring far less joints than the equivalent copper runs.

 

Chris

Edited November 20, 2008 by chris w

[wonderdust]

I have a mixture of Hep2O (used by boat builder) and Speedfit (additional work by me). I have never had the slightest leak from either system. It's much better than copper.

All of competeing plastic systems work in exactly the same way, viz: the end of the pipe to be joined is pressed up against a rubber O ring inside the fitting to form a seal. The pipe is held against the O ring, and prevented from moving backwards away from the O ring, by the forward pointing teeth of the grip ring.

 

A friend of mine refitted his bathroom with the stuff and hadn't pushed the pipe into the fitting far enough (about an inch). He turned on the water and whoosh, water everywhere. He was swearing at the stuff until I went click, click, click and pushed all the pipes into their fittings correctly.

 

Chris

 

Any plumber's out there disagree!

Or should that be Engineers!

Edited November 20, 2008 by wonderdust

[dor]

I prefer Hep2O, partly because I have had problems with speedfit, but that is quite likely due to poor installation rather than a fault with the product (they do need to be lined up correctly with no side-pressure). I bought all my Hep2O from PTS, which gave me a 40% discount - quite significant when doing a whole boat!

 

The grab rings are easy to remove with the tool - trade supplied get them free from Hepworths, and you may get one free if you are buying plenty of stuff. However I find you can easily remove the newer green grab-rings by easing them off as you wiggle them side-to-side.

[chris w]

Any plumber's out there disagree!

Or should that be Engineers!

With a license (sic). Shhhhh.... don't mock the afflicted

[smileypete]

Agreed they are good, better looking and smaller especially when they can be seen.

 

Thirded, I quite like 'Talon' clips too.

 

cheers,

Pete.

[alan_fincher]

Thirded, I quite like 'Talon' clips too.

 

cheers,

Pete.

I haven't come across Talon in looking around supplier, I'll admit.

 

I also agree that the standard offerings from Hep2O and Speedfit are not too pretty if they are on display.

 

However in my case any plumbing, (or at least any new plumbing), will be hidden, so size or appearance is a non issue.

 

In the end the incremental cost of Hep2O, (provided not bought at a chandlery), was small, and I know I can get all the bits, including clips and O-rings in my chandlery if I need to, meaning repairs are easy, should a need ever arise.

 

If I was doing an all new installation, I'd be equally likely to make a different choice, but I'm not.

 

Thanks to all, and no doubt a useful thread for anybody likely to be plastic plumbing in the future.

 

Alan

[alan_fincher]

I thought I'd post my experiences of doing a fair bit of plumbing in Hep2O as a reference for others.

 

I've used a lot of new style Hep2O fittings, but also reused quite a bit of the previous generation stuff which I dismantled from the old set up.

 

I find it remarkably easy to use, making a good joint every time.

 

A demounting tool is available for new style (green) grab rings, (I had a couple in the old set up). It lifts them off the pipe with consummate ease.

 

I thought I had a stack of old style (metal only) grab rings, but couldn't find them. I have therefore reused old ones. By cutting the old pipe just beyond them, it's relatively straightforward to push them off over the cut end. So far as I can tell they are undamaged by the experience, and when reused grip just as firmly as they did first time around.

 

Where I have reused a fitting, I have assembled all the parts back in it, but given the O-ring a dab of silicone grease, as new fittings come with them lightly greased.

 

I found no problems at all, and had no need to demount any grab rings from the reworked plumbing.

 

However, I took one liberty. Only when I unpacked one part did I find instructions saying "don't ever use a hacksaw to cut the tube", and it's probably good advice. By then I wanted to get going, and didn't want to wait for a tool. I've got away with the hacksaw, but couldn't recommend it, as it's hard to leave a clean end. Unless you have only a handful of joints to make, buy the proper tool!

 

Alan

[dor]

I've got away with the hacksaw, but couldn't recommend it, as it's hard to leave a clean end. Unless you have only a handful of joints to make, buy the proper tool!

 

If you do use a hacksaw with Hep2O, just run a stanley knife round the cut end to chamfer it slightly and remove the rough sawn edge. You shouldn't have any problems then.

[alan_fincher]

If you do use a hacksaw with Hep2O, just run a stanley knife round the cut end to chamfer it slightly and remove the rough sawn edge. You shouldn't have any problems then.

Yes, agreed....

 

Also, I can't see it actually matters if the cut end is not perfectly at 90 degrees, leaving a slight gap against the support collar.

 

If it mattered you might expect the 3 metre pipes to arrive with squared off ends, but all mine were well slanted.

 

Congratulations to BES for sending 4 lengths of 3 metre 15mm pipe in a box that would have easily contained a couple of hundred lengths. I can't believe some of these people make a lot of profit, if carriage is free.....

[chris w]

Unless you have only a handful of joints to make, buy the proper tool!

 

Alan

Just as good as the pipe secateurs (the official tool) is a standard mini copper pipe cutter which is a lot less expensive than the cutters.

 

Chris