credit crunched boaters

[John Orentas]

I think that is a bit of an over reaction, I really don't think that Reuters ticker-tape machines will be clicking in that hysterical sort of way.. If I was a Captain of industry or a Financial Mogul you may have a point, but I really don't think individuals or the financial markets will take the slightest notice of me.. I've been around for 64 years and no one has yet.

Edited November 18, 2008 by John Orentas

[david and julie]

What a little ray of sunshine you are!

 

Ever since the soothsayers circled the forum in Rome (and probably a long time before that too) we have always loved a good profit of doom story.

 

So to summarise we have rising unemployment,sterling dropping like a stone, foreigners owning most of our essential services,no manufacturing industry left,vitually no oil or gas left, kids leaving school who can't read and write, PFI debts out of control, unfunded public sector pensions, skint banks,skint government, 2 wars we can't win, an immigrant problem, public sector unrest, rising crime. But alls rosey in the garden really?

 

There are definately more empty spaces on our marina, in the last few months alone I know 3 people(3 different narrowboats)who fancied a change and got exactly where they wanted instantly.

[Dominic M]

Possibly,

 

But our local brokerage has had just one boat on their books for many weeks now, and that's overpriced and has been on many months. They are not a large outfit, but usually turn over boats quite fast with a selection of offer. The situation where they have effectively none for sale at a sensible price in unprecedented in my experience.

 

Of course they may be untypical.

I think you answer your own question. Where boats are overpriced the market has changed. People feel (and because enougn of them feel it is the truth) that they can shop around more.

 

767 narrow boats up for sale on appolo duck alone add in the other sites and there is a lot of boats on the markets.

Which is less than a month ago when it was about 850. Firstly, many brokers now advertise on Apollo Duck (I am one) where it was formerly the preserve of the private seller. Secondly, people may have sold and not bothered to remove or update their ad.

 

Does anyone know is this more or less than usual?

See above.

 

Certainly the number of trad stern narrow boats has been going up alot over the last few months,there always seemed to be a lot of cruiser sterns on the market but they to have gone up significantly.

Trads are probably 75% of the private market, semi trads 20% and cruisers 5%. No change there.

 

What a little ray of sunshine you are!

 

Ever since the soothsayers circled the forum in Rome (and probably a long time before that too) we have always loved a good profit of doom story. I don't know what will happen (and anybody who says they do with any degree of certainty is very misguided) but there is no doubt that a good recession can be talked up in theses days of instant communication almost any story can become true. Financial Markets are on the whole self fulfilling any rumour becomes true if enough people want it to be and the story is told enough times.

 

However, back on topic it is interesting in all the stories about how the present situation is affecting boat sales new or second-hand there is very little fact and a lot of rumour and anecdote. My view is that I am very sorry for anyone who has found themselves in a position where they need to sell but I am also determined to enjoy my boating while I still may, hopefully uninterupted by money, health or any other troubles as I hope you all will too.

 

So, here is my anecdote to go with the grist in the rumour mill. We moor at Wigrams Turn marina and not far from the Whilton sales area there. There are some boats that seem to hang around longer than others but some seem to come and go very quickly. It appears that the turnover of boats is significant still. One boat that came in recently was sold within a fortnight and it wasn't one at the budget end of the market. Good boats seem to sell.

 

Yup, people love doom and gloom. I have found that sales are still buoyant, but the market has changed. Most affected is the top end. People with money to spend on 60k upwards in the 2nd hand market are probably holding back to see what happens. Neat and tidy boats below that are selling, because people want them, and if there is a decline in value, that decline will be less, if at all.

 

I'm getting a number of enquiries from those who want to live aboard - younger people, which I personally welcome - I think we need a greater presence of younger people on the waterways. Some will, of course, use it as just a temporary home as they prefer it to high rents or the inability to get on the housing ladder, but some will take to the canals as a way of life and produce a much needed new generation of waterways' devotees.

 

Against all of that, I expect a tough year ahead. If I'm proved wrong, then good. And it is times like this that will present good opportunity. Much associated with the waterways has become bloated in value, and there is no harm in a good shakedown.

 

My views, of course, not written in stone. I welcome healthy debate on this issue. Some of it will doubtless help me to revise or hone my thoughts.

Edited November 18, 2008 by Dominic M

[Dominic M]

So to summarise we have rising unemployment,sterling dropping like a stone, foreigners owning most of our essential services,no manufacturing industry left,vitually no oil or gas left, kids leaving school who can't read and write, PFI debts out of control, unfunded public sector pensions, skint banks,skint government, 2 wars we can't win, an immigrant problem, public sector unrest, rising crime. But alls rosey in the garden really?

 

There are definately more empty spaces on our marina, in the last few months alone I know 3 people(3 different narrowboats)who fancied a change and got exactly where they wanted instantly.

I'd consider changing your daily newspaper.

 

The pound has risen against the euro for the last two days. "Foreigners" have owned much of our utilities for many years now. The manufacturing industry as we knew it was wiped out 20 years ago. A good thing about this "crunch" is that it will bring PFI initiatives under close scrutiny if not to an end (also a 20 year old creation). We have had "final salary pensions" in the public sector in place for decades - no government has had the guts to reform that. Skint banks? Well, there would have been a public outcry if a government had sought to regulate them when the boom was on - another 25 year event (Whaddya mean I can't can't borrow loads of money cheaply to buy a house, car, boat, etc.). Nobody wins wars, and yet the majority of the electorate supported the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan in the first place. What immigrant problem? Many jobs that needed to be done here were filled by immigrant workers. Public sector unrest - what's new? Rising crime - depends what sort of crime. All's rosy in the garden - was it ever - do tell me when?

Edited November 18, 2008 by Dominic M

[Troll]

Ha hahaha you`ve all been taken in, every business I know is booming.

 

Dont you know theres an election Looming and wont you all be voteing for the ones who say "hey look who got you through it, vote for us"????

Edited November 18, 2008 by Troll

[david and julie]

I'd consider changing your daily newspaper.

 

The pound has risen against the euro for the last two days. "Foreigners" have owned much of our utilities for many years now. The manufacturing industry as we knew it was wiped out 20 years ago. A good thing about this "crunch" is that it will bring PFI initiatives under close scrutiny if not to an end (also a 20 year old creation). We have had "final salary pensions" in the public sector in place for decades - no government has had the guts to reform that. Skint banks? Well, there would have been a public outcry if a government had sought to regulate them when the boom was on - another 25 year event (Whaddya mean I can't can't borrow loads of money cheaply to buy a house, car, boat, etc.). Nobody wins wars, and yet the majority of the electorate supported the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan in the first place. What immigrant problem? Many jobs that needed to be done here were filled by immigrant workers. Public sector unrest - what's new? Rising crime - depends what sort of crime. All's rosy in the garden - was it ever - do tell me when?

I don't read newspapers I use the internet instead,didn't realise Stirling was now so strong, didn't put a timeline on anything, the public sector pension issue is real,PFI's whilst not knew, are used much more now, Bank regulation - outcry? they were previously regulated and since when did politicians become concerned about what the public thought? Don't recall having any say on wars, HMG obviously disagrees with your view on immigrants as they are changing the rules to reduce the numbers, a crimes a crime.

 

I notice you don't seem to have actually disagreed with what I wrote?

[Troll]

and another thing to look out for..............

 

 

A cash strapped company ie/ not selling cars say, makes new law, no smoking in toilets,

 

Thats it, everybody out on STRIKE.

 

 

Phew lucky escape, a couple of weeks with no wages to pay, company then make up and say sorry you can now smoke in shed outside, everyones happy

[churchward]

So to summarise we have rising unemployment,sterling dropping like a stone, foreigners owning most of our essential services,no manufacturing industry left,vitually no oil or gas left, kids leaving school who can't read and write, PFI debts out of control, unfunded public sector pensions, skint banks,skint government, 2 wars we can't win, an immigrant problem, public sector unrest, rising crime. But alls rosey in the garden really?

 

My answer to that is, so what?

 

I didn't say "all's rosy in the garden" All I am saying is that I think little can be achieved by moaning about how terrible things are unless you are in a position to positively effect the outcome.

 

Personally I do not worry about things I don't have any control over (I will exercise my democratic right at the next election of course) and as I said in my post all I want to do is enjoy my boating whilst I still may and may that be a long time. I can't predict the future so all I can do is try and manage my own personal "now" and enjoy life in as positive way as possible. Before you leap to another conclusion that doesn't mean burying ones head in the sand and avoiding problems I can effect (they too need positive action) just a preference to make the most of what I have now and not worry about what I may or may not have in the future but take steps to influence a continuance of my present good fortune.

 

 

I think that is a bit of an over reaction, I really don't think that Reuters ticker-tape machines will be clicking in that hysterical sort of way.. If I was a Captain of industry or a Financial Mogul you may have a point, but I really don't think individuals or the financial markets will take the slightest notice of me.. I've been around for 64 years and no one has yet.

 

Hysterical? I think not erm... the first sentance of my post was indeed directed at you my little black cloud but the rest was not, more a general comment on how repititions of doom and gloom create their own story.

Edited November 18, 2008 by churchward

[US Marines]

Personally I do not worry about things I don't have any control over

 

Personally, I try to do this too but, being weak, I fail....

[Pretty Funked Up]

I hate saying this... but i have to agree with dominic m. (even my fingers hurt typing it)

 

but will add to it that as fast as young people are realising there is an alternative to over priced poorly built houses, BW are raking up the costs left right and centre, now HMRC are joining in. By the time of the next election boating may no longer seem to be an option, costing almost the same with the added 'blood, pain and sweat' that goes hand in hand with boats (especially cheap ones)

 

 

PS. I wont be thinking "who got us through it?" i'll be thinking who got us into it!?!! (labour)

if they want my vote theyre gonna need a magic wand!

Edited November 19, 2008 by Pretty Funked Up

[Boaty Jo]

I seem to remember that around 430 NBs were for sale on Apollo Duck when we were selling a couple of years ago.

[cotswoldsman]

So to summarise we have rising unemployment,sterling dropping like a stone, foreigners owning most of our essential services,no manufacturing industry left,vitually no oil or gas left, kids leaving school who can't read and write, PFI debts out of control, unfunded public sector pensions, skint banks,skint government, 2 wars we can't win, an immigrant problem, public sector unrest, rising crime. But alls rosey in the garden really?

 

There are definately more empty spaces on our marina, in the last few months alone I know 3 people(3 different narrowboats)who fancied a change and got exactly where they wanted instantly.

 

Wow The daily Mail awaits your contributions. Still could be worse Mrs Thatcher could come back, and we could again look forward to interest rates of 15%, unemployment of over 3 million, essential services privatised so that can then be bought by foreign companies, close down manufacturing companies, oh yes and Black Monday and where was Cameron during this time uummmm oh yes working in the Treasury.

[Gary Peacock]

To put it bluntly the countries stuffed!

 

Gordo is going to need to pull a pretty impressive white rabbit out of the hat to fix it.

 

By next year he will need to be looking at how the employment figures can be jiggled to keep everyone feeling good!

[Naughty Cal]

It certainly isnt all rosey in the world of economics, but (in my very brief look into the world of boating) the sales of boats in our marina (Burton Waters) seems to be holding their own. In the six weeks we have owned our boat they have sold at least a futher 8/9 boats. They have a very good turnover of quality stock. Yes there are boats that stick around but these appear to be well over priced or under specced.

 

We have yet to notice an increase in spare berths as the marina is operating a waiting list so any spares soon get filled.

[WJM]

Recession can be an excellent business opportunity. It allows good businesses to strengthen their positions and become more profitable. Costs, including wages, can be driven down with ease and competitors disappear leaving greater opportunity for those remaining. I personally have never experienced such excellent trading conditions as recent months, and subsequently if I was in the market for a new boat this would be the perfect time to start shopping.

 

I was speaking to a bloke who works at McDonalds UK HQ recently. For them business is booming as people desert Starbucks and Co for the greater perceived value offered by their Golden Arches branding.

 

I have lived and worked through previous downturns and found them to have a very beneficial effect. Lets hope this one finally kills off Sterling before Gordon B and Co really abuse it in a desperate attempt to win the next election. The best justification I have ever heard for the Euro (and its directly connected interest rates) is that 'it stops the idiots messing'. Stand by for some serious messing with our beloved sovereign pound. Will it survive as a meaningful world currency as the world watches it being manipulated for short term local interests?

Edited November 19, 2008 by WJM

[david and julie]

Wow The daily Mail awaits your contributions. Still could be worse Mrs Thatcher could come back, and we could again look forward to interest rates of 15%, unemployment of over 3 million, essential services privatised so that can then be bought by foreign companies, close down manufacturing companies, oh yes and Black Monday and where was Cameron during this time uummmm oh yes working in the Treasury.

The Daily Mail dig is wasted on me because I don't read it.

I also didn't attack or defend any particular political party or Government either - to me there are all much the same. This is what I wrote.

So to summarise we have rising unemployment,sterling dropping like a stone, foreigners owning most of our essential services,no manufacturing industry left,vitually no oil or gas left, kids leaving school who can't read and write, PFI debts out of control, unfunded public sector pensions, skint banks,skint government, 2 wars we can't win, an immigrant problem, public sector unrest, rising crime. But alls rosey in the garden really?

Just my summary on the state of this country.

 

Can you now point out anything at all that I wrote that is actually untrue without assuming what my political persuation may or may not be.

 

Personally I do not worry about things I don't have any control over (I will exercise my democratic right at the next election of course) and as I said in my post all I want to do is enjoy my boating whilst I still may and may that be a long time. I can't predict the future so all I can do is try and manage my own personal "now" and enjoy life in as positive way as possible. Before you leap to another conclusion that doesn't mean burying ones head in the sand and avoiding problems I can effect (they too need positive action) just a preference to make the most of what I have now and not worry about what I may or may not have in the future but take steps to influence a continuance of my present good fortune.

Can you point out the first conclusion I leapt too please?

[churchward]

Personally, I try to do this too but, being weak, I fail....

 

Indeed, we are all human and therefore prone to fail on our assertions from time to time. I too don't always suceed to avoid worrying about things that I cannot change depending on my mood but it is still the best approach I think to avoid failing to act on the things you can change because you are distracted by things you can't.

[Denis R]

My local boatyard is reporting a heavy workload of repairs and alterations and they seem to think it's a case of owners adopting a 'make-do and mend' rather than sell and trade-up approach.

[churchward]

Can you point out the first conclusion I leapt too please?

 

The way you posted in reply to mine I thought your "all is rosy in the garden, really?" comment meant that you assumed/concluded that was what I meant and it is not otherwise I can't see why you said it. I thought I explained that in my second sentance in reply but perhaps not clearly enough.

[david and julie]

The way you posted in reply to mine I thought your "all is rosy in the garden, really?" comment meant that you assumed/concluded that was what I meant and it is not otherwise I can't see why you said it. I thought I explained that in my second sentance in reply but perhaps not clearly enough.

In plain English do you mean you were wrong?

[churchward]

In plain English do you mean you were wrong?

 

No

[david and julie]

No

The way you posted in reply to mine I thought your "all is rosy in the garden, really?" comment meant that you assumed/concluded that was what I meant and it is not otherwise I can't see why you said it. I thought I explained that in my second sentance in reply but perhaps not clearly enough.

If you feel your words may have been misinterpreted or misunderstood you could always try again.

[churchward]

If you feel your words may have been misinterpreted or misunderstood you could always try again.

 

No thanks I am bored with this now.

 

Here is that second sentance again

 

I didn't say "all's rosy in the garden" All I am saying is that I think little can be achieved by moaning about how terrible things are unless you are in a position to positively effect the outcome.

[david and julie]

No thanks I am bored with this now.

 

Here is that second sentance again

I'm not suprised your bored given that you said this.

My answer to that is, so what?

I find it odd though that someone who says they just wants to get on with enjoying themselves takes the effort to criticse another members posts with comments like this.

What a little ray of sunshine you are!

I bored with it too, but if your going to give it you've got to be prepared to take it too.

 

No problem.

[Denis R]

Phew! Thought you two were going to take over from where Chris and Terry left off for a minute!